Sheffield Supertram & Tram Train news

[zwk500]

Maybe because Metro has something similar to conventional railway signalling, and presumably there's a train describer to interface to that looks similar to the ones on Network Rail. Sheffield is a tramway and doesn't have block sections or train describer berths in the conventional sense. I think there's something that keeps track of where a tram is between the transponder loops that are provided at various places, but there can be more than one tram between each pair of loops so it's probably not straighforward to make this look like a traditional train describer. Also it's probably been in use for the 30 years since Supertram opened, and there may no longer be anyone around who understands how it works.

The lack of a train describer would not be an impediment to showing the tram line to Midland in the NR Planning systems. After all, it shows the Supertram network as far as Cathedral.

Metro on the Durham Coast, the industry systems have every possible terminating point on them including those without booked workings such as St James.

This may be down to how Metro trains were planned to be shown in the system. It's also possible that Metro was added at a time when NR had people willing to put in a bit more detail than strictly needed. It's noticeable that the Manchester Metrolink connections are generally not shown beyond the NR/Metrolink ownership boundaries in TPS.

And I think this might also apply for the Bakerloo line too.

I'm fairly sure the Bakerloo line isn't shown south of Queen's Park in NR planning systems. North of Queen's Park is shown in full because it's shared with the DC Line.

So not sure why it’s missing for Sheffield.

I suspect NR were asked to put in sufficient infrastructure to show the intended service pattern, and nobody considered/asked/had the time to put in other locations. Drawing the infrastructure in the planning system, especially in a tight area like Sheffield, can be very fiddly. If trams are only going to terminate at Midland once in a blue moon, NR may well ask what is the point in allocating the resources to input somebody else's network. I think they should have included Midland when they drew it, but I can see why they didn't.

 

[DanNCL]

This may be down to how Metro trains were planned to be shown in the system. It's also possible that Metro was added at a time when NR had people willing to put in a bit more detail than strictly needed. It's noticeable that the Manchester Metrolink connections are generally not shown beyond the NR/Metrolink ownership boundaries in TPS.

Not all locations on Metro are shown, not even all intermediates on the booked route to Newcastle Airport, just locations where they may terminate if required, and Pelaw. All intermediates between Rotherham and Cathedral on the Supertram network are inputted.

I'm fairly sure the Bakerloo line isn't shown south of Queen's Park in NR planning systems. North of Queen's Park is shown in full because it's shared with the DC Line.

I suspect NR were asked to put in sufficient infrastructure to show the intended service pattern, and nobody considered/asked/had the time to put in other locations. Drawing the infrastructure in the planning system, especially in a tight area like Sheffield, can be very fiddly. If trams are only going to terminate at Midland once in a blue moon, NR may well ask what is the point in allocating the resources to input somebody else's network. I think they should have included Midland when they drew it, but I can see why they didn't.

I’ve just checked for the Bakerloo line and found three locations inputted south of Queen’s Park, those are Elephant & Castle, Waterloo and London Road Depot.
There’s a surprising number of TFL locations inputted including locations where the chances of anything ever running through from the national network are precisely zero, including on the Northern line and even a couple on the DLR!

So it does still seem a bit odd that they can have all of that but not the tram stop at Sheffield Midland.

 

[zwk500]

Not all locations on Metro are shown, not even all intermediates on the booked route to Newcastle Airport, just locations where they may terminate if required, and Pelaw. All intermediates between Rotherham and Cathedral on the Supertram network are inputted.


I’ve just checked for the Bakerloo line and found three locations inputted south of Queen’s Park, those are Elephant & Castle, Waterloo and London Road Depot.
There’s a surprising number of TFL locations inputted including locations where the chances of anything ever running through from the national network are precisely zero, including on the Northern line and even a couple on the DLR!

So it does still seem a bit odd that they can have all of that but not the tram stop at Sheffield Midland.

Just for clarity, which systems are you checking?

 

[DanNCL]

Just for clarity, which systems are you checking?

I should probably clarify, I don’t have internal access to any systems. But can check what locations are available for use in the WTT via publicly available websites. You’d be amazed what a quick search in the detailed mode of RTT brings up. All sorts of locations.

 

[ALEMASTER]

A recap of tram services for the rail replacement works that run from this Saturday, 25 May, until Sunday 2 June:

Tram Train. Normal timetable between Rotherham Parkgate and Hyde Park, diverting to Sheffield railway station and not serving Fitzalan Square, Castle Square or Cathedral.

Blue route: operating only between Malin Bridge and University of Sheffield, to a revised timetable. For Halfway see Green route.

Yellow route: operating only between Middlewood and University of Sheffield, to a revised timetable. For Meadowhall see Green route.

Purple route: operating Herdings Park to Sheffield railway station then diverting to Cricket Inn Road, not serving Fitzalan Square, Castle Square or Cathedral. Minor changes to the timetable.

Green route: temporary service operating between Halfway, Sheffield railway station, Hyde Park and Meadowhall. Times generally similar to the Yellow and Blue route services being replaced in these areas.

Bus TR1: Tram replacement bus operating in Sheffield City Centre at frequent intervals between Shrewsbury Road (near Granville Road and Sheffield Station Tram stops) and Glossop Road (for University of Sheffield tram stop).

More information including network map and PDF timetables https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-GB/supertram/25th-May-Supertram-rail-replacement

Supertram timetables on bustimes.org https://bustimes.org/operators/south-yorkhire-future-tram

 

[GardenRail]

I emailed the mayor's office a bit ago, seeking an update on both Stocksbridge and The Old Road.

Thank you for your email about tram extensions and rail in Stocksbridge.

We are working with the Department for Transport (DfT) and Network Rail on developing options for re-introducing passenger services on the Stocksbridge Line as part of the Government’s Restoring Your Railways programme. This includes options for heavy rail and tram-train.

The DfT are developing an Outline Business Case which should be completed by the end of the year and Ministers will then decide whether to take this proposal forward to Full Business case.

DfT are also developing a similar Outline Business Case for passenger services on the ‘Old Road’ between Sheffield and Chesterfield. If the business case gets approved and funded then we could see services running on the line by 2029

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Kind regards,

Clare Monaghan
Executive Director, Policy and Strategic Development

Office of Oliver Coppard
South Yorkshire's Mayor

 

[eastwestdivide]

High-tech protection by cones on the track! (taken from a diverted tram-train on the third side of the Park Sq triangle)

 

[Iskra]

I emailed the mayor's office a bit ago, seeking an update on both Stocksbridge and The Old Road.

Thank you for your email about tram extensions and rail in Stocksbridge.

We are working with the Department for Transport (DfT) and Network Rail on developing options for re-introducing passenger services on the Stocksbridge Line as part of the Government’s Restoring Your Railways programme. This includes options for heavy rail and tram-train.

The DfT are developing an Outline Business Case which should be completed by the end of the year and Ministers will then decide whether to take this proposal forward to Full Business case.

DfT are also developing a similar Outline Business Case for passenger services on the ‘Old Road’ between Sheffield and Chesterfield. If the business case gets approved and funded then we could see services running on the line by 2029

I hope this helps answer your questions.

Kind regards,

Clare Monaghan
Executive Director, Policy and Strategic Development

Office of Oliver Coppard
South Yorkshire's Mayor

Thanks for sharing

 

[GardenRail]

High-tech protection by cones on the track! (taken from a diverted tram-train on the third side of the Park Sq triangle)
View attachment 158749

Line-of-sight innit

 

[eastwestdivide]

Couple more photos of diverted TT services today.
Round the third side of the triangle:


Arrived at Sheffield station tram stop, return destination already set up:


Crossing over to platform C (not the one directly outside the rail station entrance) to pick up outbound passengers:


And into the platform:


The inbound TT had "Station" on the front display as well as a printed A4 sheet with "Station" in the windscreen.
The on board announcements couldn't cope – "This is the tram-train service to [silence]".
And the on board scrolling display had "This is the tram-train service bound for The next stop will be [e.g. Attercliffe]".

 

[syorksdeano]

Chaos at the moment as a tram has broken down on Langset Road. Don't think they have access to/from the depot at the moment

 

[ALEMASTER]

If it's a complete failure it'll have to be stabled at University until the line reopens and it can return to depot on 3 June, however if it's something minor the rolling stock maintenance crew should be able to take their van to it and fix it on site.

 

[py_megapixel]

If it's a complete failure it'll have to be stabled at University until the line reopens and it can return to depot on 3 June, however if it's something minor the rolling stock maintenance crew should be able to take their van to it and fix it on site.

Don't they need both lines available at University to be able to turn back enough trams for both the blue and yellow service?

 

[ALEMASTER]

Don't they need both lines available at University to be able to turn back enough trams for both the blue and yellow service?

It's single line working from Shalesmoor crossover up to University.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Follow-up pics to earlier this week
Looking the opposite way at a tram on the triangle, with high-tech protection in place:


And the high-tech sheet of paper in the windscreen saying Sheffield Station (to be fair, it also says Station in the display above)

 

[Iskra]

Probably not worth it's own thread, or irritating a mod by asking for a thread unlock, but according to the latest Brancline News, a Serco Test Train ran up the Deepcar/ Stocksbridge Branch on April 12th, which is the first use in just over 12 months. That seems positive news in terms of the line possibly having a future.

 

[GardenRail]

Did work on the Magna Station ever start, I believe they were aiming for completion end of this year.

 

[ALEMASTER]

Did work on the Magna Station ever start, I believe they were aiming for completion end of this year.

Work was due to start in July with the station ready for the December timetable change, however I believe this has been delayed by the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority as they weren't happy with the level of disruption to service the proposed possessions will cause and are challenging Network Rail.


in other news...

Engineering work is taking place this weekend on the Blue route between Hillsborough and Malin Bridge with trams diverted to Middlewood.

Supertram Network Improvements - Travel South Yorkshire

Find out the latest information about Supertram network improvement works, including rail works, overnight works, and any affect on tram services.

www.travelsouthyorkshire.com

 

[ALEMASTER]

The summer 2024 programme of rail replacement works commences this weekend as follows:

20 July to 2 August - Gleadless Townend to Halfway replaced by buses. Blue route diverted to Herdings Park with the Purple route suspended. Yellow route and Tram Train as normal.

3 to 11 August - Sheffield Station to Herdings Park closed with replacement buses. Purple route suspended, Blue route to operate in two parts, Malin Bridge to Station and Gleadless to Halfway. Yellow route and Tram Train as normal.

12 August to 1 September - Hillsborough to Middlewood closed, Yellow route diverted to Malin Bridge. Revised timetable on Yellow and Blue routes. Purple route and Tram Train as normal.

TBC - the Network Rail line Tram Train uses is due to close part of the day every Saturday and Sunday to facilitate the construction of the new Magna Station, hopefully the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority will announced news of the start date soon - if work starts in late August the station should be ready for the summer 2025 timetable.

 

[ALEMASTER]

The summer 2024 programme of rail replacement works commences this weekend as follows:

20 July to 2 August - Gleadless Townend to Halfway replaced by buses. Blue route diverted to Herdings Park with the Purple route suspended. Yellow route and Tram Train as normal.

3 to 11 August - Sheffield Station to Herdings Park closed with replacement buses. Purple route suspended, Blue route to operate in two parts, Malin Bridge to Station and Gleadless to Halfway. Yellow route and Tram Train as normal.

12 August to 1 September - Hillsborough to Middlewood closed, Yellow route diverted to Malin Bridge. Revised timetable on Yellow and Blue routes. Purple route and Tram Train as normal.

TBC - the Network Rail line Tram Train uses is due to close part of the day every Saturday and Sunday to facilitate the construction of the new Magna Station, hopefully the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority will announced news of the start date soon - if work starts in late August the station should be ready for the summer 2025 timetable.

Area 2 of the works start this Saturday, 3 August, timetables now online.

In other news work to build Magna station has now been delayed until next year due to issues with the rail industry "Network Change" process.

 

[ricoblade]

Is all back to normal now please @ALEMASTER? I live out of area but have a couple of trips planned.

Also, what's the best ticket for a return from Town to Malin Bridge and/or Middlewood please - I'm a bit confused by the website as it has:

Adult Single Short Journey £2.40, Return £4.00
Adult Single Longer Journey £2.80, Return N/A (what's a "longer journey?)
Adult Tram Day Tram £5.40, App £5.00

 

[ALEMASTER]

Is all back to normal now please @ALEMASTER? I live out of area but have a couple of trips planned.

Also, what's the best ticket for a return from Town to Malin Bridge and/or Middlewood please - I'm a bit confused by the website as it has:

Adult Single Short Journey £2.40, Return £4.00
Adult Single Longer Journey £2.80, Return N/A (what's a "longer journey?)
Adult Tram Day Tram £5.40, App £5.00

The summer rail replacement programme is complete, there are some small bits of weekend engineering work on the overhead power lines coming up on 15 September, 19-20 October and 26-27 October.

short journey would be within the City Centre out as far as Infirmary Road, Nunnery Square or Spring Lane. If you are going all the way out to Middlewood or Malin Bridge it is the capped single fare of £2.80. If you are returning then a day ticket will save money, £5.40 from the conductor or £5 in advance on the Travel South Yorkshire app, this allows unlimited tram travel all day across the network.

If you are also planning on using buses then Travelmaster offer a range of multi-modal tickets valid on all operators - Citywide is all buses and trams in Sheffield for £6.30, South Yorkshire Connect is all buses and trams in South Yorkshire for £8.60 or SY Connect+ is all buses, trains and trams in South Yorkshire for £10.70. These are also sold on the app or by conductors, more information at sytravelmaster.com.

 

[ricoblade]

The summer rail replacement programme is complete, there are some small bits of weekend engineering work on the overhead power lines coming up on 15 September, 19-20 October and 26-27 October.

short journey would be within the City Centre out as far as Infirmary Road, Nunnery Square or Spring Lane. If you are going all the way out to Middlewood or Malin Bridge it is the capped single fare of £2.80. If you are returning then a day ticket will save money, £5.40 from the conductor or £5 in advance on the Travel South Yorkshire app, this allows unlimited tram travel all day across the network.

If you are also planning on using buses then Travelmaster offer a range of multi-modal tickets valid on all operators - Citywide is all buses and trams in Sheffield for £6.30, South Yorkshire Connect is all buses and trams in South Yorkshire for £8.60 or SY Connect+ is all buses, trains and trams in South Yorkshire for £10.70. These are also sold on the app or by conductors, more information at sytravelmaster.com.

Thanks @ALEMASTER - Worked perfecty yesterday. The lack of real time information still annoys me (and still abolutely nothing at the Hillsborough stop).

 

[py_megapixel]

Thanks @ALEMASTER - Worked perfecty yesterday. The lack of real time information still annoys me (and still abolutely nothing at the Hillsborough stop).

The dot matrix displays on (most of) the platforms used to show live times, but they switched to scheduled times only a year or two ago and this has never been fixed.

Sadly the whole system does rather give the impression of having been run into the ground, and it's in desparate need of investment.

 

[scammell]

Can anyone tell me if 105 has returned to service yet or is it still under repair. Thanks in anticipation.

 

[GardenRail]

The dot matrix displays on (most of) the platforms used to show live times, but they switched to scheduled times only a year or two ago and this has never been fixed.

Sadly the whole system does rather give the impression of having been run into the ground, and it's in desparate need of investment.

I agree. As a comparison I went to Manchester last week. Their system is clean, well maintained, little graffiti, a system to be proud of. Sheffield just looks like an unmaintained shambles.

 

[ricoblade]

The summer rail replacement programme is complete, there are some small bits of weekend engineering work on the overhead power lines coming up on 15 September, 19-20 October and 26-27 October.

short journey would be within the City Centre out as far as Infirmary Road, Nunnery Square or Spring Lane. If you are going all the way out to Middlewood or Malin Bridge it is the capped single fare of £2.80. If you are returning then a day ticket will save money, £5.40 from the conductor or £5 in advance on the Travel South Yorkshire app, this allows unlimited tram travel all day across the network.

If you are also planning on using buses then Travelmaster offer a range of multi-modal tickets valid on all operators - Citywide is all buses and trams in Sheffield for £6.30, South Yorkshire Connect is all buses and trams in South Yorkshire for £8.60 or SY Connect+ is all buses, trains and trams in South Yorkshire for £10.70. These are also sold on the app or by conductors, more information at sytravelmaster.com.

I just saw the SY Connect+ on the Stagecoach app and the re-read your post properly!

Is this really valid on any train, even in the peak as it’s only £1.30 more than an Anytime Day Return for Doncaster<>Sheffield that I mainly use.

Unfortunately my bus to Doncaster is from 3 miles into Notts so I assume I can’t use it for that.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I must say, the both the service frequency and fares seem very poor indeed compared to my local tram service which is the Metrolink. The sparsest routes get 5tph, the busier ones get 12tph, and it reaches up to 40tph in the city centre. I appreciate Manchester is much busier than Sheffield, but compared with hourly on the Herdings Park line it's a startling difference. If you ask me, any tram line with an hourly service is a white elephant.

You can also travel as many times as you want over the 64 miles (99 stops) of network all day for £4.90 (daily cap after 9:30am), compared with £5.40 for Sheffield - and between 6pm on Fridays and close of service on Sunday (which is a whopping 54 hours) the most you'll pay is £6.80 no matter how much you travel or where you go during that period.

The principal trams are also much older and more tired than the M5000s (they're the same age as the T-68s Manchester axed in 2012-2014), and the stations look dated with 90s signage and no passenger information. It feels very retro and I think a refresh is needed.

 

[D365]

I must say, the both the service frequency and fares seem very poor indeed compared to my local tram service which is the Metrolink. The sparsest routes get 5tph, the busier ones get 12tph, and it reaches up to 40tph in the city centre. I appreciate Manchester is much busier than Sheffield, but compared with hourly on the Herdings Park line it's a startling difference. If you ask me, any tram line with an hourly service is a white elephant.

Don’t look at the Purple as an isolated route. Other than servicing the Herdings tower complex, the Purple is a ’booster’ for the Blue line between Cathedral and Gleadless Townend. The Herdings branch is, in effect, an extended turnback siding.

The principal trams are also much older and more tired than the M5000s (they're the same age as the T-68s Manchester axed in 2012-2014), and the stations look dated with 90s signage and no passenger information. It feels very retro and I think a refresh is needed.

I won’t argue with older and tired - Nunnery Depot is doing what it can to keep the Supertrams on the road while the money is not forthcoming - but that does provide a part answer to why the service frequency has been reduced.

I’m not sure what your comment of ”no passenger information” is based on though. Most of the stations, and all of the trams, have information screens.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Don’t look at the Purple as an isolated route. Other than servicing the Herdings tower complex, the Purple is a ’booster’ for the Blue line between Cathedral and Gleadless Townend. The Herdings branch is, in effect, an extended turnback siding.

I won’t argue with older and tired - Nunnery Depot is doing what it can to keep the Supertrams on the road while the money is not forthcoming - but that does provide a part answer to why the service frequency has been reduced.

I’m not sure what your comment of ”no passenger information” is based on though. Most of the stations, and all of the trams, have information screens.

Hmm. Maybe I'm just biased as a lover of the Met then.