Should DB create their own ROSCO?

[route:oxford]

With much of the network now re-nationalised, should the German government create their own state-backed ROSCO to supply new and source used rolling stock & locos to their sister UK subsidiaries?

One hundred and twelve 2 car Desiros and 10 single car Desiros, built in Germany creating much needed jobs in their manufacturing economy, financed using sovereign debt and leased at an internal recovery rate without the corporate margins, would be all that is needed to completely replace the entire Welsh DMU stock.

It would certainly shake up the ROSCO and franchise market if there were, say in 18 months to 2 years time, a sudden glut of spare stock available to lease. The DfT would be scrabbling around trying to find former military bases to store the surplus pacers*...

*Thirty pacers released directly from the replacement of stock, with a further 31 released by the cascaded 150s. I'll let someone else decide the cascade pattern for the the single 121, 8 153s, 24 158s, and 27 175s...

 

[90019]

I think the DafT would have a fit

 

[Aictos]

With much of the network now re-nationalised, should the German government create their own state-backed ROSCO to supply new and source used rolling stock & locos to their sister UK subsidiaries?

One hundred and twelve 2 car Desiros and 10 single car Desiros, built in Germany creating much needed jobs in their manufacturing economy, financed using sovereign debt and leased at an internal recovery rate without the corporate margins, would be all that is needed to completely replace the entire Welsh DMU stock.

It would certainly shake up the ROSCO and franchise market if there were, say in 18 months to 2 years time, a sudden glut of spare stock available to lease. The DfT would be scrabbling around trying to find former military bases to store the surplus pacers*...

*Thirty pacers released directly from the replacement of stock, with a further 31 released by the cascaded 150s. I'll let someone else decide the cascade pattern for the the single 121, 8 153s, 24 158s, and 27 175s...

Well for starters that ATW 121 could work Oxford to Bicester or be used instead of 313s for training trip on the GN

 

[Lampshade]

Store the surplus Pacers?

 

[yorksrob]

With much of the network now re-nationalised, should the German government create their own state-backed ROSCO to supply new and source used rolling stock & locos to their sister UK subsidiaries?

Perhaps we might re-learn how to run a railway instead!

 

[Kingfisher200262]

With much of the network now re-nationalised, should the German government create their own state-backed ROSCO to supply new and source used rolling stock & locos to their sister UK subsidiaries?

One hundred and twelve 2 car Desiros and 10 single car Desiros, built in Germany creating much needed jobs in their manufacturing economy, financed using sovereign debt and leased at an internal recovery rate without the corporate margins, would be all that is needed to completely replace the entire Welsh DMU stock.

It would certainly shake up the ROSCO and franchise market if there were, say in 18 months to 2 years time, a sudden glut of spare stock available to lease. The DfT would be scrabbling around trying to find former military bases to store the surplus pacers*...

*Thirty pacers released directly from the replacement of stock, with a further 31 released by the cascaded 150s. I'll let someone else decide the cascade pattern for the the single 121, 8 153s, 24 158s, and 27 175s...

Slight problem with this cunning plan... the existing ROSCOs have secure leases on the existing rolling stock, with ATW until 2018. Why would they allow ATW to break these leases, when they have guaranteed income for the next eight years?

 

[TDK]

Slight problem with this cunning plan... the existing ROSCOs have secure leases on the existing rolling stock, with ATW until 2018. Why would they allow ATW to break these leases, when they have guaranteed income for the next eight years?

ATW is no longer going to be Arriva but DB would the secure lease become void as the original lease was with Arriva Group?

 

[atomicdanny]

Store the surplus Pacers?

Personally I would give them to top gear to use instead of caravans, and I think everyone knows what they think of caravans , although seriously though I think that instead of scraping old trains they should be stored some where in case they are needed in future?

 

[christopher]

instead of scraping old trains they should be stored some where in case they are needed in future?

Strategic Reserve

 

[route:oxford]

Store the surplus Pacers?

Well, what would you do with the (initial) 61 surplus pacers?

They could, of course, be used to supplement some of the remaining 79 units or introduce new services to improve frequencies or gaps in timetabling...

Or be scrapped.

 

[tbtc]

Well, what would you do with the (initial) 61 surplus pacers?

They could, of course, be used to supplement some of the remaining 79 units or

Gets my vote.

A public transport provider with enough "bulk" could take things in house, and save a fortune over the lifespan of a vehicle. Even if they only get to use it for fifteen years (rather than a, perhaps, thirty year lifespan of a train), it would save a lot of money and ensure a much greater degree of control over things (no more being dumped with "cast offs" like EMT were).

Just a shame that we have a different gauge to the rest of Europe, as the transfer market would be fascinating otherwise

Double up the rejected Pacers, in the short term at least, since the capacity is needed on commuter routes

 

[route:oxford]

I think the DafT would have a fit

Yes, they would. The thought brings a massive smile to my face.

I can't quite decide on the reactions of the WAGs though. The DB Regio livery may be a little hard to stomach for some... On the other hand, the all red livery matches the Welsh Dragon and a Dragon alongside the DB Regio logo would look very good.

 

[mrcheek]

ATW is no longer going to be Arriva but DB would the secure lease become void as the original lease was with Arriva Group?

No.
When one company buys another, they acquire everything. Buildings, bank balances, employees, and all leases and contracts. Unless specifically stated otherwise.
So the status of the leases does not change.

That said, with the time it takes to plan and build new stock, 2018 sounds about the right date for construction and delivery on these new units to be completed!

 

[route:oxford]

Slight problem with this cunning plan... the existing ROSCOs have secure leases on the existing rolling stock, with ATW until 2018. Why would they allow ATW to break these leases, when they have guaranteed income for the next eight years?

The plan is for the "Pacers" operate for a further 8 years! Surely there is a "break" clause on the oldest stock...

 

[WatcherZero]

There probably is a break clause, penalty payment. However the point of that penalty payment would be to make it unrewarding for them to terminate early.

 

[route:oxford]

Ah well, that (almost) rules out new stock for the Welsh.

So overall, is it pretty pointless for any new ROSCO, such as the, German Government to invest in brand new rolling stock for the UK market?

Not even new Intercity stock as part of the bid to keep XC at the next Franchise round? With a few extras to spare for the WAG express and Wrexham & Shropshire of course...

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, they would. The thought brings a massive smile to my face.

I can't quite decide on the reactions of the WAGs though. The DB Regio livery may be a little hard to stomach for some... On the other hand, the all red livery matches the Welsh Dragon and a Dragon alongside the DB Regio logo would look very good.

On the other other hand DB have stated that the Arriva livery won't be changed. You don't see Chiltern, WSMR, Tyne & Wear Metro, or LO being painted red do you?
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Not even new Intercity stock as part of the bid to keep XC at the next Franchise round? With a few extras to spare for the WAG express and Wrexham & Shropshire of course...

When the franchise comes up for renewal, I'd put money on the DfT extending the section 54 agreement (between DfT, the bidders, and the Roscos) and insisting that bidders must use the existing Voyager fleet.

That is the agreement that forced Arriva to take the existing fleet (after it was carved up between them and West Coast), and somehow add to overall capacity as necessary. So the 5 HSTs were the idea Arriva put in their bid, but they had never had an option NOT to use their allocated share of the Voyagers.