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Should the District line share the Hammersmith to Acton express lines?

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swt_passenger

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If the Picc goes to Ealing Broadway it suggests to me that one or other (or both) of the existing branches will receive a worse service, at times anyway, UNLESS the signalling upgrade is able to provide a significant improvement in tph east of Acton Town: perhaps it is?

A 60% capacity improvement is claimed for the Picaddilly line, with all the upgrades including stock, signalling, and power supplies etc..

That must be mainly provided by a far greater frequency.
 
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Mojo

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A 60% capacity improvement is claimed for the Picaddilly line, with all the upgrades including stock, signalling, and power supplies etc..

That must be mainly provided by a far greater frequency.

At present 24tph operates on the line and the current thinking is that it could be 33tph as per the document posted above.
 

Nym

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At present 24tph operates on the line and the current thinking is that it could be 33tph as per the document posted above.

With the highly likely signalling system, I really doubt that will be achievable on a multi-line branch. Especially with the less than intelligent plans for Acton Town that are being floated.
 

LU_timetabler

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The 33 tph, needs extra reversing somewhere, hence giving Ealing Broadway to the Picc. No other re-routing, crossing over District & Picc etc will work as it would interfere with a very intensive service.
 
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Nym

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The 33 tph, needs extra reversing somewhere, hence giving Ealing Broadway to the Picc. No other re-routing, crossing over District & Picc etc will work as it would interfere with a very intensive service.

So do tell, how is the North East end going to cope with the reversing? Four termini in the western end, one of which is a loop works, but the North East only has one branch.
 

LU_timetabler

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Stepping back at Cockfosters and Arnos Grove and scheduled reversing at Wood Green are the most likely fixes, but too far away to have been decided yet.
 

bramling

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I thought they scrapped Wood green reversers because they delayed the service too much

It does, but if it's the only way to achieve a service uplift then it will have to be made to work. For example, a train can be tipped out quickly if you pay for enough staff to assist. The Jubilee doesn't like the fact that the proposed intensive service will require siding reversals at all of Wembley Park, Willesden Green (both used already) plus (to come) West Hampstead, but in the absence of any other viable option they have to make it work. Perhaps the bigger difficulty is that losing all your potential emergency turn back options makes recovery difficult when things go off book.
 

bramling

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So do tell, how is the North East end going to cope with the reversing? Four termini in the western end, one of which is a loop works, but the North East only has one branch.

Some half decent signalling at Arnos Grove and, to some extent, Cockfosters would help. The current design simply doesn't cope with an intensive service for various reasons, plus the design of the Arnos Grove train crew depot being rather remote from the platforms introduces fragility when things go wrong. It didn't help that Arnos Grove was made into a rather too large 'superdepot' in the late 90s (can't remember the exact date - may be slightly more recent than that?) but the recent opening of a new depot at Cockfosters should have eased that issue a little.
 

Mojo

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Some half decent signalling at Arnos Grove and, to some extent, Cockfosters would help. The current design simply doesn't cope with an intensive service for various reasons, plus the design of the Arnos Grove train crew depot being rather remote from the platforms introduces fragility when things go wrong. It didn't help that Arnos Grove was made into a rather too large 'superdepot' in the late 90s (can't remember the exact date - may be slightly more recent than that?) but the recent opening of a new depot at Cockfosters should have eased that issue a little.
Unfortunately it hasn't; most second half pickups after meal reliefs are still at Acton, then Arnos, with only a handful at the other two. So you have the situation where almost all of the work is still being done at the old superdepots, but with fewer duty managers and spares to assist.

All too often when they want to reverse a train short at Oakwood or Arnos to get it back on time it isn't possible due to the crew relief being at Cockfosters.

When there is an emergency timetable Cockfosters and Northfields send all their drivers to Arnos and Acton respectively, so again the new depots are of no assistance as you lose time.

I shouldn't envisage 30+tph being too difficult to manage between Arnos and Cockfosters if stepping back was implemented and the trains run in ATO. After all, the Victoria line manages 36tph with just two platforms, although with the overrun tunnels can achieve much faster speeds into the platforms. 24tph can be achieved somewhere like Stratford already, and Arnos already copes with a reverser every 10 minutes with quite long turnaround times. Only issue is that it is oversupply of services to the end of the line, like they are finding on the Jubilee.
 

rebmcr

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Only issue is that it is oversupply of services to the end of the line, like they are finding on the Jubilee.

Does an oversupply bring with it any specific issues other than a waste of resources?
 

LU_timetabler

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Lines that are full to the end of the line are not long enough lines, there needs to be room for people to get on further down!
 

Busaholic

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Does an oversupply bring with it any specific issues other than a waste of resources?

The political issue of breeding resentment among those who have to put up with much fewer resources, often for reasons that are lost in ancient history.:)
 
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