Should the West Ealing-Greenford Line be electrified at 25 kv OHLE and pass to London Overground with 378 or 710s?

[SouthEastBuses]

Would it be a good idea if the West Ealing-Greenford Line (currently an unelectrified line operated by GWR using class 165s, with a Chiltern Railways parliamentary train too) was electrified at 25 kV OHLE and its operations were, as a result, transferred to London Overground with either 378s or 710s? And maybe extend the line to Paddington?

Or would it be too costly and unnecessary?

 

[JonathanH]

Would it be a good idea if the West Ealing-Greenford Line (currently an unelectrified line operated by GWR using class 165s, with a Chiltern Railways parliamentary train too) was electrified at 25 kV OHLE and its operations were, as a result, transferred to London Overground with either 378s or 710s?

No.

And maybe extend the line to Paddington?

No. It has only relatively recently been cut back from Paddington with new infrastructure at West Ealing because there is much more demand on the main line services and because of Crossrail.

This has recently been discussed.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/other-lines-that-could-be-overground-ised.215227/page-4#post-5056863

The position was very well put here.

A lot of people suggest this and I always wonder what could possibly be so significant about the line as to spark so much interest. It’s hardly going to benefit hugely from an enhanced turn-up-and-go frequency, new trains and increased capacity like other Overground lines, is it? It’s one of, if not the least used lines in London.

and here

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/greenford-branch.211649/

 

[SouthEastBuses]

No.


No. It has only relatively recently been cut back from Paddington with new infrastructure at West Ealing because there is much more demand on the main line services and because of Crossrail.

This has recently been discussed.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/other-lines-that-could-be-overground-ised.215227/page-4#post-5056863

The position was very well put here.



and here

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/greenford-branch.211649/

Why? It may be least used line and whilst I agree we should prioritise on more busy lines, it would however allow the removal of diesel islands and have more efficient and faster trains, in order to bring it line with the Government's goal of 2050 carbon neutral.

For example. The Romford to Upminster lins is also as least used as the West Ealing to Greenford line and yet its also electrified.

 

[Lewlew]

How would the 378s/710s get there? You'd have to electrify from Acton to Willesden too (I think)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it should be electrified at 25kV, fed from the mainline.

I would suggest it and all other Thames Valley branches should be electrified at 25kV connected to the mainline feeds (as they are short), and should be operated using a small fleet of new Stadler Citylink vehicles as per the TfW order, with level boarding at all stations.

Who operates them I don't overly care, it could logically be TfL (as part of Crossrail rather than LO) or it could be GWR.

 

[MatthewRead]

London Underground also offered to take it over by running a 4 car 1992 tube stock shuttle that would run empty to Ruislip depot but it was deemed unfeasible due to the cost of widening the Brent Viaduct near Castle Bar Park.

 

[PeterC]

Greenford and Romford to Upminster would be best marketed as part of the Elizabeth Liberal, showing as shuttles on the Tube map as used to be done for Chesham. Who actually provides trains and crews is irrelevant

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I don't think it should be run by LO. Having the Romford to Upminster shuttle, far isolated from the ex-ELL was silly enough. I doubt the LO really should operate the Lea Valley Lines.

I'd prefer a Central Line shuttle service, or ideally just a branch of Corssrail.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think it should be run by LO. Having the Romford to Upminster shuttle, far isolated from the ex-ELL was silly enough. I doubt the LO really should operate the Lea Valley Lines.

I'd prefer a Central Line shuttle service, or ideally just a branch of Corssrail.

It can’t possibly be a branch of Crossrail without full grade separation at West Ealing, hence it no longer running as a through service.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

How would the 378s/710s get there? You'd have to electrify from Acton to Willesden too (I think)

Pretty sure Acton to Willesden is already electrified.

 

[swt_passenger]

Pretty sure Acton to Willesden is already electrified.

Acton Central (North London Line) to Willesden Junction is electrified.
Acton Main Line (GWML) to Willesden Junction is not. It’s a short missing link that was removed from the GW project, like most of the branches.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

How would the 378s/710s get there? You'd have to electrify from Acton to Willesden too (I think)

Electrify the short Acton-Willesden section too? Being a short section, shouldn't be too expensive.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Acton Central (West London Line) to Willesden Junction is electrified.
Acton Main Line (GWML) to Willesden Junction is not. It’s a short missing link that was removed from the GW project, like most of the branches.

Acton Central is on the North London Line (NLL). In that part of London the NLL is further west than the West London Line.

 

[swt_passenger]

Acton Central is on the North London Line (NLL). In that part of London the NLL is further west than the West London Line.

Yes my mistake, since they both go to Stratford some of the time I do get them confused…

Electrify the short Acton-Willesden section too? Being a short section, shouldn't be too expensive.

Yet even though it’s only just over half a mile curve - not even the distance between the stations - it is quite expensive enough to be long term deferred by DfT...

 

[PeterC]

It can’t possibly be a branch of Crossrail without full grade separation at West Ealing, hence it no longer running as a through service.

Put a purple line on the map as a connection (as has been done with Aldwych, Chesham and Ongar at various times in the past) and put up new signs. Job done.

There is no reason why more than one operator can't run under the same branding. Both NatEx and the bulk of the fast food industry seem to manage.

 

[swt_passenger]

Put a purple line on the map as a connection (as has been done with Aldwych, Chesham and Ongar at various times in the past) and put up new signs. Job done.

There is no reason why more than one operator can't run under the same branding. Both NatEx and the bulk of the fast food industry seem to manage.

Yes sure, I was referring to proper full time through running, which as you’ll know is not going to return however many times new people suggest it…

 

[Iliketrains123]

I don't think it should be run by LO. Having the Romford to Upminster shuttle, far isolated from the ex-ELL was silly enough. I doubt the LO really should operate the Lea Valley Lines.

I'd prefer a Central Line shuttle service, or ideally just a branch of Corssrail.

Overground is just a brand for Tfl's suburban rail services. It made more sense for Romford-Upminster to go to Overground instead of the Elizabeth Line.

 

[A0wen]

London Underground also offered to take it over by running a 4 car 1992 tube stock shuttle that would run empty to Ruislip depot but it was deemed unfeasible due to the cost of widening the Brent Viaduct near Castle Bar Park.

Why would the viaduct have needed widening? Surely tube stock isn't wider than a 165 (already wider than most DMUs).

 

[David Goddard]

I think that electrification with an LO 710 shuttling (as per the Romford-Upminster) is the most likely, should the line get upgraded, and wiring the Acton curve should be built into the same case, which itself would have far reaching benefits for cross London freight, allowing electric haulage round the NNL.
I sense it remains a bit of a thorn for GWR so for them to lose the route would not be a bad thing.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I think that electrification with an LO 710 shuttling (as per the Romford-Upminster) is the most likely, should the line get upgraded, and wiring the Acton curve should be built into the same case, which itself would have far reaching benefits for cross London freight, allowing electric haulage round the NNL.
I sense it remains a bit of a thorn for GWR so for them to lose the route would not be a bad thing.

I was under the impression that no freight terminals accessed from the GWML are electrified. What benefits did you have in mind?

Freight terminals reached via the Greenford Loop, such as Park Royal and Northolt, let alone Calvert, are beyond the wires too.

 

[cle]

The branches (inc Upminster) should all be branded and marketed as Crossrail. A sub brand of feeder if necessary. Appear on all the maps in the same style - no major investment. People don’t care about stock or power type, but good connections and a seamless experience. Easy to retimetable according to the best services into London, as they’re relatively self-contained.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I was under the impression that no freight terminals accessed from the GWML are electrified. What benefits did you have in mind?

Freight terminals reached via the Greenford Loop, such as Park Royal and Northolt, let alone Calvert, are beyond the wires too.

I imagine that advocates of electrifying from Acton Wells to Acton Yard assume there'll be a locomotive change in the yard.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I imagine that advocates of electrifying from Acton Wells to Acton Yard assume they'll be a locomotive change in the yard.

Ah; just the sort of 'far-reaching benefit' that every freight company must be yearning for.

(Yes, I am well aware of the environmental benefits of electric traction but in terms of operations and terminals there is still ever such a lot to sort out and pay for on an ongoing basis.)

 

[MatthewRead]

Why would the viaduct have needed widening? Surely tube stock isn't wider than a 165 (already wider than most DMUs).

I meant to accommodate the fourth rail.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

No but the bay should be electrified and it should be turned over to a BEMU which can recharge between journeys. Perhaps a sub fleet of 769's could be created with batteries vice diesel engines for all the isolated diesel workings East of Reading or even just order a few more 756's. Crikey if we had a national strategy a long run build could have ordered making them more competitively priced.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Ah; just the sort of 'far-reaching benefit' that every freight company must be yearning for.

(Yes, I am well aware of the environmental benefits of electric traction but in terms of operations and terminals there is still ever such a lot to sort out and pay for on an ongoing basis.)

The other point frequently overlooked is that many of the freight trains using that spur emanate from/go to South London and they're all diesel hauled.

 

[TheWalrus]

With passenger numbers plummeting to around half of what it was when they had through services to Paddington, probably not worth the investment.

 

[londonteacher]

The branches (inc Upminster) should all be branded and marketed as Crossrail. A sub brand of feeder if necessary. Appear on all the maps in the same style - no major investment. People don’t care about stock or power type, but good connections and a seamless experience. Easy to retimetable according to the best services into London, as they’re relatively self-contained.

Maybe called Crossrail Connect? Lizzie Link?

 

[SynthD]

I don’t get this fascination with Crossrail feeders and naming them Crossrail.
That Acton line is on a ramp, much nearer the bridge, making it harder to electrify. Still, I expect that could be fixed before Chiltern is electrified, which would be a reason to electrify this line for through freight.
As before, the vivarail or similar as an upgrade on the existing trains probably would have happened by now if it was as viable as we would like.

 

[cle]

I don’t get this fascination with Crossrail feeders and naming them Crossrail.

It's marketing - better orientation and improving customer usage. Windsor on the Crossrail map is surely a winner. Why would you not? It's an easier win for travellers than electrifying a branch with a 5 min ride.