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Should we replace heavy rail lines with Metrolink?

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Jozhua

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Hi everyone.

Wanted to get your input on proposals to change heavy rail services to places like Glossop and Wigan to light rail Metrolink operations.

Personally, I think that light rail may not be the best solution for these longer distance journeys. I feel like limitations on top speeds and other compromises trams make to be able to do street running could risk making the service worse.

I think that there would probably have to be a different fleet of trams for those longer distance journeys too, more seats, etc - especially if they end up taking longer.

I also see perhaps less of the utility in being able to utilise the city centre tram lines considering how overcrowded they already are. If we need to build a cross city tunnel, it might as well be in the style of a metro, especially if that can be automated or use ATS.

What are your thoughts? Interested to hear the insights of others - especially if you have experience working/riding the existing Metrolink system!
 
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yorksrob

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I think it's a case of which routes.

I can't deny that Bury has been a success.

However, as a fairly frequent user of the Atherton line (and occasional user of the Glossop one) I far prefer these as they are and wouldn't want them to be slowed down as tram routes tend to be. Atherton also isn't a self contained route and is NR at both ends, so I wouldn't want to lose that flexibility to the network.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think some make sense and some don't. To me Atherton does (send Southport via Bolton as "option 3" does, and extend Merseyrail from Kirkby/Skem to Wigan), as does Rose Hill, possibly Hadfield and if NPR is built then Warrington (with Merseyrail on the other side).

I would agree that some longer (4-car?) trams/tram-trains with more seats would be sensible for these longer routes - a high floor version of the Sheffield trams would be a good idea, these have low-floor standee/wheelchair sections at the ends and lots of seats in the middle.
 

TheGrew

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I'm of the opinion that the buided busway should have really been built as a metrolink extension from Eccles, using the old railway alignment from Monton. That could then have opened up other opportunities with a branch out to the likes of Little Hulton.
 

daodao

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I think it's a case of which routes.

I can't deny that Bury has been a success.

However, as a fairly frequent user of the Atherton line (and occasional user of the Glossop one) I far prefer these as they are and wouldn't want them to be slowed down as tram routes tend to be. Atherton also isn't a self contained route and is NR at both ends, so I wouldn't want to lose that flexibility to the network.
Conversion of the main ex-GC suburban lines to the SE of M/c to Metrolink is an excellent idea. The current heavy rail services are poor, and would be improved significantly. There is capacity in the central Manchester tram network, as it would merely involve extending services currently terminating at Piccadilly.

Conversion of the Rose Hill line (via Reddish) would be relatively straightforward, as all that is needed is building an on street section from the east end of the Piccadilly Metrolink station to Ashburys. If one wants to avoid the use of tram trains, the section between Romiley station and Marple Wharf junction could be operated as 2 separate single lines (1 Metrolink and 1 NR, as through Navigation Road).

Conversion of the Glossop/Hadfield line would be more complicated, as the disused track bed of the former quadruple line between Ashburys and Guide Bridge would be need to be reinstated, with the line kept separate from NR through Guide Bridge station and as far as Flowery Field station. It would quash any possibility of reinstating the Woodhead route as a main line railway.

A half hourly heavy rail passenger service, and freight traffic, could continue to run to New Mills/Chinley via Guide Bridge, Hyde and Marple.

Conversion of the Atherton line would improve the services on it, but is fraught with practical issues at both ends of the line. Metrolink would need to run on street from Salford Crescent to the city centre and it isn't obvious where to site the track and how/where services would join the existing Metrolink network. There is also the issue of the section between Hindley and Wigan, as a double track heavy rail route would need to be retained between these points.

As for the CLC line to Warrington Central, the main difficulty would be capacity issues between Cornbrook and the city centre, and accommodating the freight traffic to the Trafford Park terminal, even it is deemed acceptable to remove fast services from this line.

No other current or former rail lines radiating from M/c city centre exist that could even be considered for Metrolink conversion.

The Glossop/Hadfield and Warrington Central routes also extend into neighbouring areas outside the Greater Manchester boundary, which could cause issues.
 
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yorksrob

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Conversion of the main ex-GC suburban lines to the SE of M/c to Metrolink is an excellent idea. There is capacity in the central Manchester tram network, as it would merely involve extending services currently terminating at Piccadilly.

Conversion of the Rose Hill line (via Reddish) would be relatively straightforward, as all that is needed is building an on street section from the east end of the Piccadilly Metrolink station to Ashburys. If one wants to avoid the use of tram trains, the section between Romiley station and Marple Wharf junction could be operated as 2 separate single lines (1 Metrolink and 1 NR, as through Navigation Road).

Conversion of the Glossop/Hadfield line would be more complicated, as the disused track bed of the former quadruple line between Ashburys and Guide Bridge would be need to be reinstated, with the line kept separate from NR through Guide Bridge station and as far as Flowery Field station. It would quash any possibility of reinstating the Woodhead route as a main line railway.

A half hourly heavy rail passenger service, and freight traffic, could continue to run to New Mills/Chinley via Guide Bridge, Hyde and Marple.

Conversion of the Atherton line would improve the services on it, but is fraught with practical issues at both ends of the line. Metrolink would need to run on street from Salford Crescent to the city centre and it isn't obvious where to site the track and how/where services would join the existing Metrolink network. There is also the issue of the section between Hindley and Wigan, as a double track NR route would need to be retained between these points.

As for the CLC line to Warrington Central, the main difficulty would be capacity issues between Cornbrook and the city centre, and accommodating the freight traffic to the Trafford Park terminal, even it is deemed acceptable to remove fast services from this line.

No other current or former rail lines radiating from M/c city centre exist that could even be considered for Metrolink conversion.

The low hanging fruit has already been plucked.
 

Jozhua

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I think it's a case of which routes.

I can't deny that Bury has been a success.

However, as a fairly frequent user of the Atherton line (and occasional user of the Glossop one) I far prefer these as they are and wouldn't want them to be slowed down as tram routes tend to be. Atherton also isn't a self contained route and is NR at both ends, so I wouldn't want to lose that flexibility to the network.
Yeah, very probably.

I think Metrolink is best focusing on brining rail to places that don't currently have it, or at the time were under threat of losing it. I also think that if there is some spare room next to existing trackbed to compliment service, that could be a positive too.

But overall, I think we'd be better just focusing on boosting heavy rail capacity in terms of rolling stock, stations, junctions and electrification. More platforms would allow more services to run more reliably. If only one fleet type could be sorted, say 331's/195's, then we could work on level boarding and the like too.

If there is funding available for some nicer infrastructure (like a cross-city tunnel), it would probably not be best utilised by trams and all the comprimises that come with them. I think an actual Metro service would be the best use of this, and that could actually do quite a good job of replacing existing heavy rail corridors, although an automated high frequency metro might be a bit much for somewhere like Glossop/Hadfield.

The low hanging fruit has already been plucked.
Most probably, yes. Other routes have a more questionable operations case.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm of the opinion that the buided busway should have really been built as a metrolink extension from Eccles, using the old railway alignment from Monton. That could then have opened up other opportunities with a branch out to the likes of Little Hulton.

The problem is that the Eccles Metrolink branch is way too slow, which is because it's really a Salford Quays line that only went to Eccles at all because it got them EU objective 1 funding or somesuch. So I doubt it will be extended. Running the bus up the East Lancs Road will be considerably quicker.

If the Atherton line got Metrolinked there would I guess be the option to convert it to tram and connect it to the Atherton line somewhere around Walkden, though the height differential from the road to the railway there would take some thought, and if you were sending 10 trams per hour out that way (5 to Wigan and 5 to Leigh) as is sort of the Metrolink standard you'd probably need to build a city centre tram tunnel a la Den Haag too. So what you'd actually be building, probably connected to Rose Hill Marple and/or Hadfield on the other side, would be more of an U-Bahn or pre-metro than a tramway.
 
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HSTEd

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The problem is that the Eccles Metrolink branch is way too slow, which is because it's really a Salford Quays line that only went to Eccles at all because it got them EU objective 1 funding or somesuch. So I doubt it will be extended. Running the bus up the East Lancs Road will be considerably quicker.

What about trying to put in a connection between Media City tram stop and the IWM North tramstop?
Would require a bridge across the Quays obviously but replaces a line with four stops and lots of sharp bends and road crossings with one with only three intermediate stops (including Media City itself) and basically no road crossings.

Could skip Broadway or Media City if you wanted too.
 

WatcherZero

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Theres a pedestrian bridge between the two locations but I cant really see what bringing the alignment that way would achieve, a stupendously expensive bridge and with the extra journey time of crossing the water a saving of 2-3 minutes?

Theres a scheme under development for running a Metrolink line from Mediacity to Salford Crescent railway station (and then less firmly) continuing on to the city centre which would offer the same journey savings for reaching the north of the city centre but be a lot more beneficial.
 

HSTEd

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Theres a pedestrian bridge between the two locations but I cant really see what bringing the alignment that way would achieve, a stupendously expensive bridge and with the extra journey time of crossing the water a saving of 2-3 minutes?
Currently most trams to Eccles seem to go into Media City and Reverse, Pomona to Broadway tram stop takes 14 minutes.

But Pomona to the IWM tram stop takes 4 minutes.
Media City to Broadway takes 2.

It's only about 400m between the two, so I think you will save something like five minutes or so, thanks to avoiding the reversal.
 

telstarbox

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The problem is that the Eccles Metrolink branch is way too slow, which is because it's really a Salford Quays line that only went to Eccles at all because it got them EU objective 1 funding or somesuch. So I doubt it will be extended. Running the bus up the East Lancs Road will be considerably quicker.

If the Atherton line got Metrolinked there would I guess be the option to convert it to tram and connect it to the Atherton line somewhere around Walkden, though the height differential from the road to the railway there would take some thought, and if you were sending 10 trams per hour out that way (5 to Wigan and 5 to Leigh) as is sort of the Metrolink standard you'd probably need to build a city centre tram tunnel a la Den Haag too. So what you'd actually be building, probably connected to Rose Hill Marple and/or Hadfield on the other side, would be more of an U-Bahn or pre-metro than a tramway.
The busway was well used at least until Covid. Depending on how the Greater Manchester Spatial Framework saga goes, it should be easy to extend the buses into new areas of housing which wouldn't necessarily support a tram extension (partly for the journey time reason you mentioned.)
 

Ianno87

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Currently most trams to Eccles seem to go into Media City and Reverse, Pomona to Broadway tram stop takes 14 minutes.

But Pomona to the IWM tram stop takes 4 minutes.
Media City to Broadway takes 2.

It's only about 400m between the two, so I think you will save something like five minutes or so, thanks to avoiding the reversal.

Normally (non-Covid) there's a seperate direct Eccles service avoiding MediaCity (and thus the reversal)
 

Jozhua

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What about trying to put in a connection between Media City tram stop and the IWM North tramstop?
Would require a bridge across the Quays obviously but replaces a line with four stops and lots of sharp bends and road crossings with one with only three intermediate stops (including Media City itself) and basically no road crossings.

Could skip Broadway or Media City if you wanted too.
Would be better building a new alignment via Salford Central & Crescent, been as a lot of people heading to Mediacity come from the university-way anyway. The 50 bus can be a bit unreliable, so it would improve journeys for a lot of people. Hopefully it could provide a faster journey from the city centre too.
 

tbtc

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I can't blame (Greater) Manchester for looking at Metrolink for the future.

Heavy rail takes a long time to get anything done (look at how long it's taken to arrange a passenger service over a relatively short existing bit of railway to Blyth compared to how Metrolink was built without major delays), heavy rail is expensive to build infrastructure for (compared to Metrolink), heavy rail requires large ongoing subsidies (forty pence per passenger mile for Northern services, whilst Metrolink runs without operational subsidy?), heavy rail can see the assets taken away for use elsewhere (e.g. the Manchester area lost the relatively modern TPE 170s because they were secured by a TOC down south, but nobody else is going to get their hands on Mancunian trams), heavy rail can mean that Mancunians play second fiddle to longer distance passengers (e.g. the terrible service at local stations on the Airport line because all those Newcastle/ Glasgow/ Cleethorpes passengers are apparently more important), Metrolink means that you can increase frequencies much easier...

Makes sense that they'd look at some kind of light rail based solution to their problems.

Maybe we should focus on tackling the complicated/expensive issues with heavy rail, sure, but you could upgrade an unnelectrified line to Metrolink and have five trams an hour running along it in the time you we still knee deep in fundraising/ planning to try to run a half hourly EMU along it.

Metrolink isn't going to solve every problem but there are a number of lines where the frequency (at at leat some stations) is held back by finite heavy rail infrastructure (e.g. paths into central Manchester, terminus space), electrification isn't going to happen any time soon, you can't divert the route easily to serve town centres the way that Oldham/ Rochdale have benefited from a service that actually runs into the heart of the town rather than half a mile away.

However there are three problems with conversion:

  • Firstly, the tram infrastructure in central Manchester is already pretty busy - so it might not just be the cost of converting a line to Metrolink, you might have to consider the need for a third city centre crossing
  • Secondly, as the existing routes are already matched up so you might have to try to pair up new lines (e.g. do one from the west and you need to one from the east to match up and run through to)
  • Thirdly, the twelve minute frequency seems locked into Metrolink, so you'd have to consider whether a train service would be replaced by a twelve minute tram or a six minute tram

Conversion of the Glossop/Hadfield line would be more complicated, as the disused track bed of the former quadruple line between Ashburys and Guide Bridge would be need to be reinstated, with the line kept separate from NR through Guide Bridge station and as far as Flowery Field station. It would quash any possibility of reinstating the Woodhead route as a main line railway

Stopping the nostalgists from their "Woodhead" obsession seems a good enough reason to salt the soil and introduce trams to me!

More seriously though, the Glossop line is a long way out of Manchester but that's no reason why you can't order stock better suited to such journeys - ask a tram manufacturer for more comfortable seats and a toilet and they'll do it.

Pros:
  • It's pretty slow for a train line (e.g. over half an hour for about a dozen miles as the cross flies), so it's not as if a fast accelerating tram is going to mean a significantly slower journey.
  • Capacity into Piccadilly means you're not going to find additional paths for heavy rail to Glossop

Cons:
  • The Hadfield bit of the "triangle" - I could see a twelve minute tram replacing a half hourly train as a simple Manchester - Glossop service, but what do you do with Hadfield? Keep the existing set up with a twelve minute frequency? Run a six minute tram as far as Dinting with separate branches? Complicate things further with some services running Manchester - Hadfield - Glossop - Manchester and others running Manchester - Glossop - Hadfield - Manchester? Abandon the Dinting - Hadfield section entirely and run a dedicated guided busway instead? A Local Bus For Local People?
  • The existing station is already very central for Glossop, so there's not much scope for expansion there - it doesn't serve Hyde very well but I can't see an easy way to rectify that
  • The low numbered platforms at Piccadilly aren't a major bottleneck (compared to Castlefield etc), so can cope with the current two trains per hour (just as long as you don't want to increase the frequency)

So I'm not convinced about Glossop - it doesn't offer much that the train can't (unless you need to increase capacity/frequency significantly - but there's not significant housing growth that I'm aware of) - and Hadfield complicates things a bit too much

I guess one reason for converting the Glossop line would be that you were doing the "Marple via Hyde" line too (i.e. you're combining the costs of converting the line as far as "Hyde" between two lines, so cheaper than doing things separately)?

Conversion of the Atherton line would improve the services on it, but is fraught with practical issues at both ends of the line. Metrolink would need to run on street from Salford Crescent to the city centre and it isn't obvious where to site the track and how/where services would join the existing Metrolink network. There is also the issue of the section between Hindley and Wigan, as a double track heavy rail route would need to be retained between these points

Atherton seems the best line to convert IMHO.

The current line is pretty poor at actually serving Salford/ Atherton etc - it's stuck alongside golf courses/ fields/ industrial estates rather than properly serving the places that the station names suggest it does

It's very low down the pecking order in terms of paths into central Manchester

The Southport frequency and the "via Bolton" frequency match up, so you could remove the Atherton trains whilst Wigan retains heavy rail services

Removing paths through Salford Crescent and the flat junctions would improve reliability for other services

Maybe a six minute service as far as the current Atherton station, every twelve minutes into the actual town and every twelve minutes carrying on to Wigan?

Could combine it with conversion of the Leigh busway (as far as Irlam), if we are talking medium-term?


The Glossop/Hadfield and Warrington Central routes also extend into neighbouring areas outside the Greater Manchester boundary, which could cause issues.

Metrolink runs beyond Merseyside, Sheffield's Supertram runs through Derbyshire - GMPTE/TfGM have had powers over public transport in the north western bits of Derbyshire for a while

The low hanging fruit has already been plucked.

...some may say the same about re-opening "Beeching" lines I guess - maybe we should forget about them too?
 

Ianno87

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Heavy rail takes a long time to get anything done (look at how long it's taken to arrange a passenger service over a relatively short existing bit of railway to Blyth compared to how Metrolink was built without major delays),

Well, funding for Phase 3 (originally "Metrolink 2000") was somewhat stop-start in the mid-2000s.

I agree through, once it got going, the pace of opening new routes has been phenomenal.
 

geoffk

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The low hanging fruit has already been plucked.
I agree but would go for Rose Hill via Bredbury, with all heavy rail services diverted via Guide Bridge and Woodley. This removes two trains per hour from Piccadilly's low-numbered platforms.
 

Watershed

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If one wants to avoid the use of tram trains, the section between Romiley station and Marple Wharf junction could be operated as 2 separate single lines (1 Metrolink and 1 NR, as through Navigation Road)
I highly doubt either Metrolink or NR will want to introduce another avoidable constraint to their systems, particularly since the line isn't hemmed in by high-value housing as at Navigation Rd, and Romiley Jn to Wharf Jn, at about 1.5 miles, would be a considerably longer stretch of single line.

I can't help thinking that Metrolink would deliver greater benefit expanding to areas not currently served by any railway, even though it's easier and more attractive to take over an existing service.

...some may say the same about re-opening "Beeching" lines I guess - maybe we should forget about them too?
A number of Beeching closures were, in retrospect, quite justified. Some have of course been reversed, but this has predominantly been where the circumstances have changed - e.g. the building of new housing or an increase in commuting.
 

Gathursty

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Hindley station does have room for Metrolink and you could use the Whelley Loop Line and some inspiration from Croydon Tramlink near Elmers End where it zigzags through the woods and do the same south of Seaman's Way to bring the Metrolink on line with the Wigan Central line and rebuild it into the Grand Arcade now Debenham's has gone into administration.

Don't you love it when a plan comes together.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I'm of the opinion that the buided busway should have really been built as a metrolink extension from Eccles, using the old railway alignment from Monton. That could then have opened up other opportunities with a branch out to the likes of Little Hulton.

Assuming you mean the guided busway, since it commenced, it has surpassed all originally-forecasted user statistics and has modern double-deck buses and the guided-busway line area from Ellenbrook to Leigh has well-placed stops en route and terminates in Leigh bus station. Outwards from Salford, it uses the special bus lanes on the East Lancashire Road that saves the bus from traffic delays. It is very handy for Salford Central railway station, with a bus stop immediately above that station which is well used by those attending Salford University.
 

HSTEd

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Stopping the nostalgists from their "Woodhead" obsession seems a good enough reason to salt the soil and introduce trams to me!

More seriously though, the Glossop line is a long way out of Manchester but that's no reason why you can't order stock better suited to such journeys - ask a tram manufacturer for more comfortable seats and a toilet and they'll do it.

Pros:
  • It's pretty slow for a train line (e.g. over half an hour for about a dozen miles as the cross flies), so it's not as if a fast accelerating tram is going to mean a significantly slower journey.
  • Capacity into Piccadilly means you're not going to find additional paths for heavy rail to Glossop

Cons:
  • The Hadfield bit of the "triangle" - I could see a twelve minute tram replacing a half hourly train as a simple Manchester - Glossop service, but what do you do with Hadfield? Keep the existing set up with a twelve minute frequency? Run a six minute tram as far as Dinting with separate branches? Complicate things further with some services running Manchester - Hadfield - Glossop - Manchester and others running Manchester - Glossop - Hadfield - Manchester? Abandon the Dinting - Hadfield section entirely and run a dedicated guided busway instead? A Local Bus For Local People?
  • The existing station is already very central for Glossop, so there's not much scope for expansion there - it doesn't serve Hyde very well but I can't see an easy way to rectify that
  • The low numbered platforms at Piccadilly aren't a major bottleneck (compared to Castlefield etc), so can cope with the current two trains per hour (just as long as you don't want to increase the frequency)

If you put in a 25m radius curve (I understand this si tolerable for metrolink) you could probably put a baloon loop in at Glossop by going around the existing station building with a single track using the car park.

Then you could treat Glossop as just an intermediate station on a line to Hadfield.
 

daodao

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However there are three problems with conversion:

  • Firstly, the tram infrastructure in central Manchester is already pretty busy - so it might not just be the cost of converting a line to Metrolink, you might have to consider the need for a third city centre crossing
  • Secondly, as the existing routes are already matched up so you might have to try to pair up new lines (e.g. do one from the west and you need to one from the east to match up and run through to)
  • Thirdly, the twelve minute frequency seems locked into Metrolink, so you'd have to consider whether a train service would be replaced by a twelve minute tram or a six minute tram
The first 2 points do not apply to extensions on the ex-GC lines to Glossop/Hadfield and Rose Hill via Reddish, if the services are run at 12 minute frequencies, as services from Bury and Altrincham (each running all day at 12 minute intervals) currently terminate at Piccadilly and could easily be extended further east. This is why I agree with the following statement:

I agree but would go for Rose Hill via Bredbury, with all heavy rail services diverted via Guide Bridge and Woodley. This removes two trains per hour from Piccadilly's low-numbered platforms.
Doing this would also provide capacity for all Standedge route services not running west of M/c to be diverted via Guide Bridge and terminate at Piccadilly, thus providing an added benefit of removing 2 tph from the congested Castlefield corridor.
 
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yorksrob

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...some may say the same about re-opening "Beeching" lines I guess - maybe we should forget about them too?

Well, in the one case you already have a functioning rail link, whereas in the other, you don't, so it's not really comparable.
 

Bletchleyite

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The "every 12 minutes" thing is a bit of an irritant in many ways because it is difficult to split down - if it was improved to a base of every 10 minutes (6 trams per hour) then that's memorable (only one number between 1 and 10 to remember) and you have the option to drop to 3 trams per hour at quiet times / on quiet routes, which would allow running 6 onto the Atherton Line but maybe only 3 all the way to deepest darkest Lancashire. Would that be viable, or is something else locked into the 12 minute frequency e.g. the single line at Navigation Road or some permissions related to level crossings?
 

Ianno87

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The "every 12 minutes" thing is a bit of an irritant in many ways because it is difficult to split down - if it was improved to a base of every 10 minutes (6 trams per hour) then that's memorable (only one number between 1 and 10 to remember) and you have the option to drop to 3 trams per hour at quiet times / on quiet routes, which would allow running 6 onto the Atherton Line but maybe only 3 all the way to deepest darkest Lancashire. Would that be viable, or is something else locked into the 12 minute frequency e.g. the single line at Navigation Road or some permissions related to level crossings?

10 minutes was the original 1992 plan, but I think eased to 12 minutes to save money somewhere (either number of vehicles, or power supply). I suspect Navvy Road would be a problem too, unless alternate trams were terminated at Timperley (which wouldn't be popular).

I don't think anybody has any awareness of the actual timetable or minutes past the hour on Metrolink, they're not even advertised (other than via Google Maps etc); it is used as a genuine turn-up-and-go operation, and the perceived difference between 12 and 10 minute intervals is very small (especially with most routes operating combined routes on 6 minute frequencies)

Other thing to remember is that the lack of advertised timetable makes managing disruption easier; the controllers prioritise maintaining headways, rather than exact minutes past the hour.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The "every 12 minutes" thing is a bit of an irritant in many ways because it is difficult to split down - if it was improved to a base of every 10 minutes (6 trams per hour) then that's memorable (only one number between 1 and 10 to remember) and you have the option to drop to 3 trams per hour at quiet times / on quiet routes, which would allow running 6 onto the Atherton Line but maybe only 3 all the way to deepest darkest Lancashire. Would that be viable, or is something else locked into the 12 minute frequency e.g. the single line at Navigation Road or some permissions related to level crossings?
One part of your posting that mentions the Atherton Line above caught my eye and that relates to "deepest darkest Lancashire". Even living as I do outside the borders of the TfGM empire, I am still aware of which areas are exterior to that entity. It is only when you reach Upholland on the Kirkby Line and Parbold on the Southport Line, both of which have services which pass through Wigan Wallgate, do you find yourself in Lancashire in areas not under the control of TfGM. (I am aware of the location of Appley Bridge, but TfGM have that station in the same remit as they do in respect of the Derbyshire area stations of Dinting, Glossop and Hadfield).
 
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Sir Felix Pole

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It should be noted that TfGM's plan envisages 'tram-train' operation for the Glossop and Atherton lines (amongst others) rather than conversion to pure Metrolink like Bury and Altrincham. The whole point of this is to enable trams to mix it with other heavy rail services and so not require complicated solutions like quadrupling from Ardwick to Guide Bridge or Hindley to Wigan. The vehicles will be of higher quality, suitable for longer distances, and dual voltage 750V DC / 25kV AC. Eventually I can envisage two distinct systems - a 'Stadtbahn' for the tram-train routes with a dedicated cross Manchester pre-metro type subway and 'Metrolink' for the street-tramway routes. Alternatively, Manchester City Council is pursuing a welcome pedestrianisation policy in the city-centre - to the predictable howls of motorists - so there may be opportunities for further cross-city tram routes, including Deansgate.
 

Bletchleyite

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Alternatively, Manchester City Council is pursuing a welcome pedestrianisation policy in the city-centre - to the predictable howls of motorists - so there may be opportunities for further cross-city tram routes, including Deansgate.

Den Haag put some of its tramways underground, but the roads above were just kept for cycles and pedestrians, not cars, so there's a precedent there.
 
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