Showing The pdf Instead Of Printing Out Ticket?

[GNER 91128]

Just a quick question, which I guess I know the answer to already but:

With a print@home ticket can you present the pdf download of said ticket on the train without having to show the paper copy?

It would save paper.

 

[Flamingo]

Does that work when checking in with Ryanair?

 

[GNER 91128]

I wouldn't know, never flown with ryanair!

I count myself lucky too!

 

[GadgetMan]

It has got to be a physical print out, or a new ticket will need to be purchased.

With some TOCs you can purchase the same ticket on mobile phone instead through a smart phone App and produce it on your phone as an M-Ticket.

 

[Firix]

Especially as train staff are not allowed to touch your phone (officially) and the print would be tiny! :P

 

[GadgetMan]

Especially as train staff are not allowed to touch your phone (officially) and the print would be tiny! :P

Not true, I've highlighted the important bit from the m-tickets Ts & Cs

M-tickets / Mobile tickets: For some bookings we allow you to travel with paperless tickets delivered to your mobile phone ("M-tickets"), booked either through the Website, or via our Mobile Application.

When booking such tickets via the Website, you must check that your mobile phone is compatible with our tickets by downloading a test ticket where indicated prior to purchase.

It is your responsibility to ensure that you carry your mobile phone on the relevant journey and that your phone is charged, functional and that you are able to display the ticket for inspection when you travel.

Due to the wide variety of mobile phone handsets and networks we are unable to offer technical support or assistance.

You may incur data usage charges from your mobile phone operator for downloading a ticket. You should check with your network provider as to what charges may apply.

For identification purposes you must also carry the credit/debit card used to make the booking (If tickets have been booked for more than one passenger, all passengers should travel together and the lead passenger must carry the credit/debit card used to make the booking).

We shall not provide duplicate or replacement tickets. The ticket must be stored on your mobile phone until the date and time of travel and such safekeeping shall be your responsibility. M-Tickets are non-transferable.

By purchasing a M-Ticket, you agree to cooperate with the train inspector and let him/her clearly view the ticket on your mobile phone and you acknowledge that you may be requested to hand over your mobile phone voluntarily for inspection. If you do not produce your ticket or hand over your mobile phone upon a request to do so by the train inspector, the train inspector shall be entitled to consider that you are travelling without a ticket.

Some train operating companies apply additional restrictions to the use of M-Tickets - you must note any additional restrictions notified during the booking process.

 

[Firix]

Weird. Perhaps it has changed since my training.

Although, if it were a pdf rather than an m-ticket, then the passenger has not agreed to the above point (so I'm technically still right (I think lol))

 

[GadgetMan]

Weird. Perhaps it has changed since my training.

Although, if it were a pdf rather than an m-ticket, then the passenger has not agreed to the above point (so I'm technically still right (I think lol))

Still wrong. You said staff are not allowed to handle a passenger's phone, if a passenger voluntarily handed over their phone (which they will because it is in their interest to) having failed to print their ticket out, and the guard was willing to show discretion by accepting an E-ticket on their phone screen then I don't see what the problem is.

Now if you'd said there was no requirement for a passenger to hand over their phone for inspection of an E-ticket, you'd be correct. But then the Guard/TI is under no obligation to accept an E-ticket that hasn't been printed out.

 

[wintonian]

you acknowledge that you may be requested to hand over your mobile phone voluntarily for inspection.

A very good reason not to use mobile ticket s then, for one thing handing my phone over to someone else even briefly would invalidate my insurance, and I'm sure we all know big companys aren't allowed to invalidate their insurance so they can't expect me to agree to invalidate mine just to suit them.

 

[GNER 91128]

The reason I brought this up is because when I go on long journeys like when I go to EDB next month I'll take my tablet with me for entertainment which has a nice big screen and would be able to display all the ticket info and qr code nice and clearly.

 

[34D]

The reason I brought this up is because when I go on long journeys like when I go to EDB next month I'll take my tablet with me for entertainment which has a nice big screen and would be able to display all the ticket info and qr code nice and clearly.

Perhaps try it, but carry a paper back up? I could imagine that if someone tweeted the TOC they could well reply and say yes.

 

[GNER 91128]

I think I'll do just that the next time, but definitely have the paper copy with me!!

 

[Flamingo]

Of course, some people get upset when I clip their electronic ticket...

 

[ainsworth74]

Of course, some people get upset when I clip their electronic ticket...

Is it still on their phone/tablet at that point? Because I'd be pretty upset too if someone tried to put a hole in my phone with their clipper!

 

[Flamingo]

Is it still on their phone/tablet at that point? Because I'd be pretty upset too if someone tried to put a hole in my phone with their clipper!

Well, it has to be cancelled in a Traditional manner

 

[transportphoto]

I have purchased Print @ Home tickets previously and actually read the terms and conditions for the ticket. I think you'll find that they quite clearly say that P@H Tickets are only valid when printed in full, on white A4 paper, and that they are not valid unless printed. I can't find a copy of them at the mo, and I'm getting a bit tired so I'm thinking of bed!

And Flamingo, I totally agree with you, all tickets have to be cancelled in a traditional manner!!

TP

 

[wintonian]

The TPE ones are:

• Print at Home is only available on our trains to Manchester Airport Advance tickets.
• Non-refundable ticket, only valid for the date, time and trains specified unless the special conditions detailed below apply.
• You must travel on the date, time and trains specified. For Print at Home bookings, the person travelling must be the payment card holder and carry the card used to make the booking and the specified identification documents at time of booking or tickets will not be valid. The payment card holder must be named as the lead passenger. All tickets must be printed on A4 paper prior to travel.
• Can be booked up until the day before travel, subject to availability.
• No refunds available.
• No amendments can be made to tickets.
• Normal railcard and child discounts available.
• Tickets are train specific; however to accommodate inbound flight delays, journeys from John Lennon & Manchester Airport can be made on the next available TransPennine Express service up to 3 hours after the departure time stated on the ticket. Where no services depart within this time, the next TPE service may be used. Passengers wishing to use this concession must have their tickets endorsed at Manchester Airport Train Ticket Office before boarding the train. You will not have a reserved seat on the new train you will then be travelling on.

So tough luck if you have poor eye sight and an A3 printer then.

But there appears to no requirement to have such a print out with you on the journey - only that it must be printed (on A4 paper) prior to travel. So in theory you could print out the ticket in the manner described, take a photo or scan of it and store it on you tablet, thereby proving that you have indeed printed it out before travel.

Or is that pushing the boundarys of reality?

 

[causton]

The TPE ones are:



So tough luck if you have poor eye sight and an A3 printer then.

But there appears to no requirement to have such a print out with you on the journey - only that it must be printed (on A4 paper) prior to travel. So in theory you could print out the ticket in the manner described, take a photo or scan of it and store it on you tablet, thereby proving that you have indeed printed it out before travel.

Or is that pushing the boundarys of reality?

Don't the byelaws state you have to have an actual ticket - or will a picture of one stored on an electronic device suffice?

 

[transportphoto]

Don't the byelaws state you have to have an actual ticket - or will a picture of one stored on an electronic device suffice?

Is this in reference to the question about the railcard the other week?

 

[wintonian]

Not true, I've highlighted the important bit from the m-tickets Ts & Cs

Don't the byelaws state you have to have an actual ticket - or will a picture of one stored on an electronic device suffice?

I'll have to have a read of them and the NRCoC but there are specific conditions for "Electronic Tickets" in S. 9.

9. Electronic Tickets
In some cases a Train Company, transport authority, travel agent or other authorised person may issue you with a ticket where the details of the trains you are entitled to use, together with any rights to goods or services supplied by another person, are stored only in electronic form. Such a ticket is referred to in these Conditions as an Electronic Ticket.
Any reference in these Conditions to the term “ticket” includes an Electronic Ticket unless specifically stated otherwise.
An Electronic Ticket may be stored on a:

(i) Smartcard (including an Oyster or ITSO card);
(ii) payment card or identity card;
(iii) mobile telephone;
(iv) personal organiser;
(v) other mobile electronic device; or
(vi) database, in conjunction with an authorised Contactless Bank Card.​

If a Smartcard is issued by a Train Company, it remains the property of that Train Company and you may be charged a deposit. If it is no longer required and is surrendered in accordance with the published arrangements for that Smartcard, any deposit paid will be refunded. A Smartcard which does not contain an Electronic Ticket is not a valid authority to travel.
The purchase and use of the Electronic Tickets listed in this Condition are subject to specific conditions of use. These will be made available when you participate in such a scheme.
Wherever reference is made in these Conditions to information about restrictions, stations, routes and period of validity being shown on tickets, this information will not be shown on Smartcards and may not be displayed on the cards or devices referred to in (ii) to (vi) of this Condition, in relation to any Electronic Tickets they contain. However, any rights, restrictions or other terms of use (including these Conditions where applicable) will
still apply and will be provided when you buy your Electronic Ticket or Electronic Funds.

 

[Lrd]

How about "Printing to PDF" and then copying it your A4 sized electronic tablet?

If a passenger tells me they have a ticket on their phone/tablet then I tell them to either show me the barcode to scan or if my computer isn't working then I will get them to move/zoom in to the relevant part of the ticket for me to look at.

I will not touch their phone in any circumstances, due to the risk of me dropping it and braking it in some way.

This isn't on the trains though.

 

[wintonian]

How about "Printing to PDF" and then copying it your A4 sized electronic tablet?

Think you missed the bit that said "A4 paper"

This isn't on the trains though.

Yeh but your ones do to bounce around a bit more in certain conditions.

 

[Harlesden]

A very good reason not to use mobile ticket s then, for one thing handing my phone over to someone else even briefly would invalidate my insurance, and I'm sure we all know big companys aren't allowed to invalidate their insurance so they can't expect me to agree to invalidate mine just to suit them.

Never heard of this. Your statement implies that allowing your envious friend a quick look at your brand new smartphone would invalidate the insurance. I don't think so. Your friend's admiring interest would be rather more involved than a ticket inspector's quick glance at the screen

 

[tony_mac]

BA certainly have mobile boarding passes, and have no problem handling your phone if that is necessary.
Easyjet will be bringing it in, although I expect Ryanair won't - unless they can charge a silly fee for it.

 

[wintonian]

Never heard of this. Your statement implies that allowing your envious friend a quick look at your brand new smartphone would invalidate the insurance. I don't think so. Your friend's admiring interest would be rather more involved than a ticket inspector's quick glance at the screen

The wording in my policy is"must remain under your direct control" so if someone else dropped it then I would not be insured.

 

[Brucey]

Southern Downlander tickets don't say they have to be printed. It is headed "eTicket" which to me, means "electronic ticket", i.e. not one that is not on paper.

Some staff (especially at other TOC gatelines) are a bit miffed at these tickets anyway, so I've never tried not printing one yet.

 

[TUC]

BA certainly have mobile boarding passes, and have no problem handling your phone if that is necessary.
Easyjet will be bringing it in, although I expect Ryanair won't - unless they can charge a silly fee for it.

Exactly. I also use a pdf for ferry travel to/from Scotland. This does seem to be another example of the rail industry making a meal out of a simple development that companies in other modes of travel have just quietly got on and done

 

[GadgetMan]

Exactly. I also use a pdf for ferry travel to/from Scotland. This does seem to be another example of the rail industry making a meal out of a simple development that companies in other modes of travel have just quietly got on and done

The airline industry and ferry terminals can check/scan the PDF against a live database, we do not yet have that facility on board trains. If a family show you 4 print at home tickets on 4 pieces of paper it is easy to compare them to ensure they refer to 4 different ticket numbers and 4 different seat numbers. We can also visually inspect the security background.

The above is not easy to do on a phone as you'd have to memorise each ticket number/seat number to ensure the passenger isn't then showing you the same PDF again.

For those that really do want to keep tickets on a phone some TOCs now offer m-tickets, use them and accept the responsibilities and risks associated.

 

[455driver]

Of course, some people get upset when I clip their electronic ticket...

Which reminded me about this video (subtitles not required)-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcIwXVKQjsQ

 

[34D]

The airline industry and ferry terminals can check/scan the PDF against a live database, we do not yet have that facility on board trains. If a family show you 4 print at home tickets on 4 pieces of paper it is easy to compare them to ensure they refer to 4 different ticket numbers and 4 different seat numbers. We can also visually inspect the security background.

The above is not easy to do on a phone as you'd have to memorise each ticket number/seat number to ensure the passenger isn't then showing you the same PDF again.

For those that really do want to keep tickets on a phone some TOCs now offer m-tickets, use them and accept the responsibilities and risks associated.

The technology is there, both for a hand-held device which can read a barcode (or a magstripe) and also for a high speed data transfer to a server which (a) logs that the ticket has been used and (b) sends a message back saying yea or nay.