"Side Lights" on trains

[Crossover]

Wondered if anyone could advise on what the orange lights there are on the side of train carriages are used for and what the different states mean?

I was at Scarborough station seeing some family off on a 185 and the lights on the 2 front coaches were flashing while the rear one was steady on. Some doors on the front cars were open while on the rear they were shut - so I opened a set of doors to see if it changed but no...so I am confused!

Anyone got any thoughts?

 

[leedstraindude]

I cant speak for the 185's but i know that on a HST the orange lights mean the doors are unlocked and can be opened.

On a 220/221 it its more or less the same, but they do not go out until all the doors on that carriage are closed once the tip has been given to close them.

 

[158757]

It's to say one or more doors are released (open), be this the guards door or a passenger door. On a 185 the flashing one indicates where the doors were released from (thus where the guard is).

 

[Aictos]

On FCC stock, it means two things:

1. The doors have been released for passenger use on that carriage.
2. The local door by the cab is open.

I know on some units there is a butterfly which opens the door on that carriage, normally the middle carriage of a 313.

 

[Fincra5]

On pretty much all stock it means the doors have been released. The flashing light mainly on Siemens trains (185, 350 etc) shows which carriage the guard has released the doors from.

What i ahve always wonder though, is what the orange strip around trains is for....

 

[CarterUSM]

Door Obstruction Lights, all the above is correct, though they will also light on a coach which has had the passcom operated or for a track circuit actuator fault, and on diesel units can also indicate the activation of any underslung fire equipment. Bottom line is that you want them all to extinguish when you press the door close button, otherwise there may be an obstruction, sticky door, or some other problem above .

 

[A60K]

What i ahve always wonder though, is what the orange strip around trains is for....

It denotes the safe limit above which you shouldn't go if there are overhead wires present.

 

[CarterUSM]

It denotes the safe limit above which you shouldn't go if there are overhead wires present.

CANT line.

 

[Pumbaa]

I was at Scarborough station seeing some family off on a 185 and the lights on the 2 front coaches were flashing while the rear one was steady on.

Most odd! The only thing I can think of is that the local panel was active in both cars, although I'm not sure thats possible with the 185. I know its certainly not with the 350s.

 

[RPM]

On a 165 an illuminated cantrail light can mean 5 things

Door interlock lost
Pass-comm operated
Engine Fire Alarm activated
Track Circuit Actuator fault
Brake MCB tripped

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Most odd! The only thing I can think of is that the local panel was active in both cars, although I'm not sure thats possible with the 185. I know its certainly not with the 350s.

It's not possible at all. If you try to turn the DKS (Door Key Switch) on when there is already one on somewhere else you will be met with an ear piercing loud alarm.

I suspect the OP has got is flashing / not flashing mixed up, or it was a trick of the light in the sunshine.

 

[CarterUSM]

It's not possible at all. If you try to turn the DKS (Door Key Switch) on when there is already one on somewhere else you will be met with an ear piercing loud alarm.

Oh yes, the classic schoolboy error and the inevitable walk of shame to turn off the one you left on.
:cry:

 

[Aictos]

It's not possible at all. If you try to turn the DKS (Door Key Switch) on when there is already one on somewhere else you will be met with an ear piercing loud alarm.

I suspect the OP has got is flashing / not flashing mixed up, or it was a trick of the light in the sunshine.

Not to mention it blows a fuse as well, I know that's one reason why the 313s got modificated so the master key had to be inserted to release the doors rather then using a 21 key.

 

[Dreadnought]

It's not possible at all. If you try to turn the DKS (Door Key Switch) on when there is already one on somewhere else you will be met with an ear piercing loud alarm.

I suspect the OP has got is flashing / not flashing mixed up, or it was a trick of the light in the sunshine.

I have seen the lights flashing on all 4 coaches of a 350 unit at the same. Appears to happen when the doors are being closed.

 

[Pumbaa]

I have seen the lights flashing on all 4 coaches of a 350 unit at the same. Appears to happen when the doors are being closed.

Not the last time I checked! They stay solid and extinguish when each car has door interlock again.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Unless there was coincidentally a fault in all 4 coaches?

 

[Dreadnought]

Unless there was coincidentally a fault in all 4 coaches?

Happens regularly at Rugby and the trains always depart so no faults involved. Not 100% but think it is the 350/2s it happens on. Will check next time I'm there.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The lights on the inside flash don't they? On the door buttons.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Now I think about it, you can have all the orange bodyside lights on a 185 flashing, but only for a few seconds. It happens when you turn the batteries on when the unit has been stabled. Part of the waking up process seems to involve the lights flashing for a few seconds.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oh yes, the classic schoolboy error and the inevitable walk of shame to turn off the one you left on.
:cry:

Yes, done that a few times. Normally when the train is packed and I am in the middle and have to fight my way to the back before anything can happen.

 

[455driver]

Oh yes, the classic schoolboy error and the inevitable walk of shame to turn off the one you left on.
:cry:

Been there, done that , luckily it was a Sunday and I was only 4 coaches away!

 

[Crossover]

It's not possible at all. If you try to turn the DKS (Door Key Switch) on when there is already one on somewhere else you will be met with an ear piercing loud alarm.

I suspect the OP has got is flashing / not flashing mixed up, or it was a trick of the light in the sunshine.

Definately not the wrong way round as I had a look again when I got off a 185 earlier (delayed by the Healey Mills Signalling Centre power failure) and the front two coaches had the orange light flashing and the rear one was again steady on - the doors had seemingly been released by the guard who was in the rear cab so logically it seems to make sense the steady on shows where released from.

When the doors were closed, the front two went off (all doors locked I'm thinking) while the rear one stayed on I believe until the rear cab door was shut - but that all happened so quickly it was difficult to tell plus they were in a rush to leave I think!

 

[O L Leigh]

Not to mention it blows a fuse as well, I know that's one reason why the 313s got modificated so the master key had to be inserted to release the doors rather then using a 21 key.

It doesn't always trip a breaker. However, it can cause an overload which may result in the contacts in the DKS becoming fused. I was always taught on traction that if you do end up with two DKS's on you should call out the fitters, as mistakenly ending up with two keys in could cause a "wrong side" door fault later.

That aside, I can see no reason at all for modding your Cl313's. These are DOO units, and therefore all controls are operated from the front cab. The driver has a master key and a DKS key, and they are always used in the leading cab. There is almost no chance of ending up with two keys in unless you are coupling to another unit that another driver has not yet fully shut down, and that is always going to be a very rare occurrence indeed.

Perhaps it's just a driver's naivety, but I can't see why a guard would end up with more than one DKS live. Surely you just have one key that you use at all times to operate the doors, and if you're moving through the train you take it with you.

Just to come back on-topic, there are one or two faults that could result in an obstruction light coming on in addition to the reasons listed already. On the units I drive, a loss of interlock and an obstruction light could mean that a Door 2 MCB has tripped on that vehicle.

O L Leigh

 

[hairyhandedfool]

On a Class 319 EMU the orange lights can indicate....

The doors are unlocked and/or open (including the cab doors).
Another DKS is live.
A passcom has been operated on the indicated coach.
Doors1 or Doors2 MCB has tripped on the indicated coach.

 

[Pumbaa]

Definately not the wrong way round as I had a look again when I got off a 185 earlier

I'd very much hope kwvr45 isn't wrong - he does sign 185s as a guard! It's very odd that you're seeing this - on all Siemens stock, the flashing bodyside light in station indicates where the local panel is (and DKS) and door interlock lost - the steady lights indicate door interlock lost.

So unless there was a Passcom activation, MCB tripped, engine fault on the other two coaches....!

 

[Crossover]

OK - now I am confused - it was definately the front coaches flashing the other week but the train I got off tonight in Piccadilly - all 3 lights were steady on until the guard activated the rear local panel (change of ends in the bay platform for it to head out to the Airport) when that one started flashing.
When doors were shut, the 2 front coach lights extinguished and the back one did as soon as the cab door was shut - so not sure about what I saw the other week...

 

[vitesse]

Not to mention it blows a fuse as well, I know that's one reason why the 313s got modificated so the master key had to be inserted to release the doors rather then using a 21 key.

Quite true, Lorol 313's wernt modified in this way as your FCC units were since ours were used for a mixture of DOO/non-DOO working. So once you put a key in at both ends it normally resulted in the Door Gear MCB tripping in either cab

 

[AlexS]

Perhaps it's just a driver's naivety, but I can't see why a guard would end up with more than one DKS live. Surely you just have one key that you use at all times to operate the doors, and if you're moving through the train you take it with you.

As an example, where you operate the DKS with a T key, its entirely possible to turn one on, forget about it, and turn the other on, having experienced the rather irritating buzz and look of embarrassment on the guards face several times in the past.

 

[transportphoto]

As an example, where you operate the DKS with a T key, its entirely possible to turn one on, forget about it, and turn the other on, having experienced the rather irritating buzz and look of embarrassment on the guards face several times in the past.

The training that guards have to go through on train dispatch is horrendous.


The usual procedure for this is:
(example on Cl170)

• Open Flap covering Door Controls
• Activate Door Controls
• Open Local Door
• Open Pax Doors
• ///\\\
• Close Pax Doors
• Check Pax Doors Secure etc...
• Close Local Door.
• Give the Two 'Buzz' internal Signal
• Wait for Reply
• De-Activate Door Controls
• Close Flap.

I am not a rail Employee but travel alot and you soon pick it up!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

You wouldn't 'forget' about it - the training that guards have to go through on train dispatch is horrendous.

How naive. It's very easy to forget something in the heat of the moment in periods of disruption when you are under pressure. Granted it shouldn't happen, but little things like forgetting you have already activated one DKS do.

 

[O L Leigh]

As an example, where you operate the DKS with a T key, its entirely possible to turn one on, forget about it, and turn the other on, having experienced the rather irritating buzz and look of embarrassment on the guards face several times in the past.

Oh, I see. So you don't have to leave the key in the DKS for it to remain live.

The DKS on our units requires a key to unlock the switch which cannot then be withdrawn until the DKS is turned to "off". However, these are slowly being replaced by a design that has no handle. Just turning the key is enough for the DKS to be live.

This seems a much better system as it removes the chance of their being more than one DKS switched on because you will always want to take your key with you.

O L Leigh