Siemens wins contract to build 94 trains for the Piccadilly line

[absolutelymilk]

Siemens is to build 94 ‘next generation’ Tube trains which Transport for London promises will “transform the experience of millions of Piccadilly line customers.”

The company has been selected after a “comprehensive and strict procurement process” and will be awarded the contract after a statutory 10-day standstill period.

This order will mean the replacement of the entire 1970s Piccadilly line fleet and allow TfL to operate up to 27 trains-per-hour by the end of 2026, up from the current 24.

TfL is placing an initial order for 94 trains but says the contract will be awarded on the expectation of a single manufacturer building the trains for all four Deep Tube lines, allowing it to “maximise cost savings” through common staff training, spares and maintenance.

http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/tfl-hir...neration-tube-trains-for-the-piccadilly-line/

Big coup for Siemens! I saw elsewhere that the trains will be built in their new factory in Goole. This should allow the factory to stay open well into the 2020s at least.

 

[pemma]

Yes they'll be Yorkshire built trains.

he 94 new trains, which will serve the Piccadilly line, will be built at a new factory in Goole, East Yorkshire

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...contract-to-build-new-generation-tube-trains/

 

[nat67]

I didn't realise that the Piccadilly line stock was so old I know that the Bakerloo stuff is ancient. But they look ok.

 

[pemma]

I didn't realise that the Piccadilly line stock was so old I know that the Bakerloo stuff is ancient. But they look ok.

It did get extensively refurbished between 1996 and 2001.

 

[whhistle]

I just hope they actually go with the design that's been comissioned:

instead of their "Inspiro" design:

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just hope they actually go with the design that's been comissioned, instead of their "Inspiro" design.

The flooring and the square windows give a nice historical reference to much older stock to me.

 

[westv]

I didn't realise that the Piccadilly line stock was so old I know that the Bakerloo stuff is ancient. But they look ok.

I traveled on the Bakerloo line a couple of years ago and when I did I thought I'd stepped into a set for a 1950s film.

 

[nat67]

I traveled on the Bakerloo line a couple of years ago and when I did I thought I'd stepped into a set for a 1950s film.

The seat's on them feel like travelling on Mk1's they are still springy and they are so loud and rough.

 

[Mikey C]

An interesting choice, the first time TfL/London Underground have purchased trains from Siemens!

An interesting turnaround in that Siemens have lost all the recent contract contests on the NR network, but now have the Underground orders effectively wrapped up for the next 15 years

 

[TRAX]

I just hope they actually go with the design that's been comissioned, instead of their "Inspiro" design.

Yup that’ll be it.

 

[waverley47]

This was posted briefly in a different thread, but given that it might end up shaping a lot of the future rolling stock orders in the next 10-15 years, I think it deserves to be discussed on its own.

Siemens has been named by Transport for London (TfL) as the chosen supplier for the £1.5 billion Deep Tube rolling stock contract.

The 94 new trains, which will serve the Piccadilly line, will be built at a new factory in Goole, East Yorkshire.

It is the first order to be placed under the Deep Tube Upgrade Programme, which will introduce brand new trains across the Piccadilly, Bakerloo, Central and Waterloo & City lines.

Although it is only the first order to be placed, TfL said it was placed based on the expectation that a single supplier will manufacture all of the new Deep Tube trains

https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018...contract-to-build-new-generation-tube-trains/

This is just a thread to explore the possible implications of this decision. For example, with Siemens looking like they have won the entirety of the deep level order, the order books for Derby and Newton Aycliffe must be looking a bit sparse. Hitatchi especially must be looking for the HS2 bid, as the 385 and 80X production lines will be drawing to a close in the next few years.

 

[TRAX]

The Derby order book is quite full atm with all the Aventra orders. The factory will be busy for the next few years.

 

[Domh245]

There is already a bit of discussion about order books and the like in the thread from when Siemens announced their plan to build a site at Goole.

Derby's order book is currently fairly healthy with the remainder of the Crossrail and London Overground fleets, as well as the large orders from Greater Anglia, c2c, South Western Railway, and West Midlands Trains (for both WMR and LNWR services). Newton Aycliffes is slightly less healthy with only the 385s and IEP fleets, and they have lost out on the TPE and Hull Trains 802s to Pistoia, but look likely to land a large contract for the SouthEastern Metro Fleet (2 of the 3 bidders are supposedly proposing Hitachi AT100 for that purpose) which would keep them going for a while.

 

[DanNCL]

This is just a thread to explore the possible implications of this decision. For example, with Siemens looking like they have won the entirety of the deep level order, the order books for Derby and Newton Aycliffe must be looking a bit sparse. Hitatchi especially must be looking for the HS2 bid, as the 385 and 80X production lines will be drawing to a close in the next few years.

Hitachi are supposedly looking to sell AT100s to the new Southeastern franchise, and I believe they are also hoping to win the Tyne & Wear Metro contract (although no shortlist has been announced for that yet)

 

[John R]

Bombardier has focused on EMU's, and very successfully, but that market would appear to be drawing to a close. They need to reconsider the DMU market, as the Class 15x stock will likely be replaced in the mid 20s, (especially if quality continues to be a key factor in franchise decisions), and at the moment they don't have a product. I know they are also touting a bi-mode competitor for the 800 series, but other than a potential order for the MML, I'm not sure where the volume is for such a train (XC maybe?)

They've filled their boots for the last few years, but would have been banking on NTfL to be the next major order to keep Derby open beyond around 2022, and I agree the cupboard all of a sudden looks bare. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[theking]

Really hope it looks something like that video TFL posted as they are for years hopefully they will be packed with modern technology.

 

[rebmcr]

Called it! (02 Apr 2018)

Yeah, we don't even know the winning manufacturer yet (I reckon Siemens though).

 

[samuelmorris]

I am a little shocked to see Bombardier lose a TfL tender, but then the Inspiro was touted a very long time ago as a contender to this, so perhaps not too shocked. If they live up to the PriestmanGoode design prototype they should be very impressive indeed.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I am a little shocked to see Bombardier lose a TfL tender, but then the Inspiro was touted a very long time ago as a contender to this, so perhaps not too shocked. If they live up to the PriestmanGoode design prototype they should be very impressive indeed.

Their traditional builder was Metro Cammell (ie Alstom).
Bombardier is relatively recent interloper.

 

[samuelmorris]

Their traditional builder was Metro Cammell (ie Alstom).
Bombardier is relatively recent interloper.

In the grand scheme of things yes, but certainly for the past 10 years, between the 378s, B07, 09TS, S7/S8 and 345s it seemed pretty much a foregone conclusion Bombardier would win the big TfL contracts for the foreseeable.

 

[DanNCL]

I suspect part of the reason Bombardier lost was because they were in this as part of a joint venture with Hitachi. Stock built at Newton Aycliffe has had quite a few problems with it it (the IEP project running late, and the windscreen issues with the 385s)

 

[Domh245]

In the grand scheme of things yes, but certainly for the past 10 years, between the 378s, B07, 09TS, S7/S8 and 345s it seemed pretty much a foregone conclusion Bombardier would win the big TfL contracts for the foreseeable.

There was also the 92TS before that, which whilst not a Bombardier product, were a Derby product (BREL/Adtranz/ABB).

I cannot help but wonder if their recent experiences with Bombardier (SSL resignalling, as well as the delays on the Crossrail and Overground Aventras) have put them off a little bit.

 

[Mikey C]

With Bombardier not being in contention for the Southeastern orders, what major other contracts are there in the next few years?

455 replacement for Southern - would Desiro Cities (e.g. the 707s) be the favourite?
EMT Bimode stock - politically, a Derby built order would be popular
HS2
DLR
Sprinter replacement in mid 2020s - no current Bombardier product

 

[Domh245]

With Bombardier not being in contention for the Southeastern orders, what major other contracts are there in the next few years?

455 replacement for Southern - would Desiro Cities (e.g. the 707s) be the favourite?
EMT Bimode stock - politically, a Derby built order would be popular
HS2
DLR
Sprinter replacement in mid 2020s - no current Bombardier product

There is also the XC franchise, which could make use of their 125mph bi-mode (they certainly intend on offering it to bidders), and the West Coast Partnership (as a voyager replacement)

Beyond that though, it looks like there isn't much scope for EMUs, the next franchises up for renewal being Great Western (D&C DMU replacement), ICEC, TSGN (455 & 313 replacement), and Chiltern (165 replacement at the least?), before TPE again in 2023 - at least assuming that franchising schedule is roughly obeyed.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Having travelled on the Inspiros in a couple of countries, they are an excellent metro train so come with good pedigree.

 

[F Great Eastern]

If they're anywhere close as good to travel on as the Inspiros, they'll be excellent trains.

 

[Mikey C]

There is also the XC franchise, which could make use of their 125mph bi-mode (they certainly intend on offering it to bidders), and the West Coast Partnership (as a voyager replacement)

Beyond that though, it looks like there isn't much scope for EMUs, the next franchises up for renewal being Great Western (D&C DMU replacement), ICEC, TSGN (455 & 313 replacement), and Chiltern (165 replacement at the least?), before TPE again in 2023 - at least assuming that franchising schedule is roughly obeyed.

Whatever the issues with electrification at the moment, I can't see Chiltern not progressing without some sort of electrification to at least remove DMUs from Marylebone and Birmingham.

 

[The_Engineer]

Good news! Let's hope that, now Siemens are manufacturing in the UK, that these trains will have a higher UK component content too.

 

[Robert Carroll]

There was also the 92TS before that, which whilst not a Bombardier product, were a Derby product (BREL/Adtranz/ABB).

I cannot help but wonder if their recent experiences with Bombardier (SSL resignalling, as well as the delays on the Crossrail and Overground Aventras) have put them off a little bit.

The 1992 Tube Stock is pretty awful and always has been. They have so far needed all the car ends rebuilt/replaced and the bogies replaced and next the traction equipment is being replaced.

 

[pemma]

Good news! Let's hope that, now Siemens are manufacturing in the UK, that these trains will have a higher UK component content too.

22 UK based manufacturers to supply components.