Signalling a train into the wrong platform where there's no room - is this classed as an operational incident?

[Islineclear3_1]

Was the Littlehampton by chance?

I won't name the location publically

 

[Crossover]

I have seen an incidence of trains left off the platform - a few years ago at Huddersfield (back when Northern still ran the stopper via Dewsbury). An ex Bradford and ex via Dewsbury joined up at Huddersfield to form a 4 car 158 for the last service via Dewsbury.
2 car comes in from Bradford and I had a funny feeling it wasn't far enough down p4 (the whole lot was unoccupied at the time) but presumed someone with greater knowledge than I would know something I didn't. The other 2 car comes in and comes up close to the existing unit, leaving a coach hanging off over the barrow crossing!

From memory, in the end, the two sets were coupled and shunted down the platform ready to form the last service which I believe was delayed a few mins. The driver had a lot of back and forth up and down the platform though, speaking to the signaller on the SPT!

 

[scotraildriver]

If I receive a position light when being signalled into a platform I ring the signaller to confirm the available platform length for my unit. Every time.

Crikey. Imagine if we all did that at Edinburgh or Glasgow Queen St/Central the delays would be horrific! Just about every other train is signalled with permissive working.

 

[Surreytraveller]

You can't blame the driver. The purpose of a calling signal signal is to inform the driver the platform ahead is already occupied so drive the train to stop short of an obstruction.

Seems to me just an operating incident that you want to avoid but one of those things that occasionally happen. Of course when signallers could look at the box window and see what was going on they may have had better knowledge rather than sitting remotely in a front of a VDU.

If its a 12 car platform, and the calling on signal will clear if there's a 8 car or less in the platform, the driver should not be accepting the signal if they have 9 or more cars on. If they have more than 4 cars on, then a lot of drivers will query the calling on.
But a 12 car train will definitely not fit in a 12 car platform if there's already a train in it

 

[dk1]

If I receive a position light when being signalled into a platform I ring the signaller to confirm the available platform length for my unit. Every time.

But that’s just not realistic when it happens to us drivers who do it sometimes several times a day & for the poor signaller on the other end.

 

[Surreytraveller]

But that’s just not realistic when it happens to us drivers who do it sometimes several times a day & for the poor signaller on the other end.

Which is why Signallers frequently signal trains into empty platforms, preferring to leave trains queued up outside the station than use the platform space economically

 

[DoubleO]

But that’s just not realistic when it happens to us drivers who do it sometimes several times a day & for the poor signaller on the other end.

I can understand that and I'll freely admit that it doesn't happen to me that often. However, whilst we have the culture of the driver basically taking a portion of the blame for pretty much every incident, I'll do what I need to do to cover my backside.....and if that creates a slight delay or annoys the signaller then so be it....

 

[dk1]

I can understand that and I'll freely admit that it doesn't happen to me that often. However, whilst we have the culture of the driver basically taking a portion of the blame for pretty much every incident, I'll do what I need to do to cover my backside.....and if that creates a slight delay or annoys the signaller then so be it....

Happened to me a few weeks ago & never heard another thing about it. It’s only I’d say the third time in 23 years I’ve been routed into a platform that I don’t fit. Only thing that annoyed me was it was my last bit of a long jog Grrrr!!

 

[DoubleO]

Happened to me a few weeks ago & never heard another thing about it. It’s only I’d say the third time in 23 years I’ve been routed into a platform that I don’t fit. Only thing that annoyed me was it was my last bit of a long jog Grrrr!!

That's good to hear.

 

[Falcon1200]

Which is why Signallers frequently signal trains into empty platforms, preferring to leave trains queued up outside the station than use the platform space economically

Signallers signal trains into the platform specified in the station docker, rather than on an ad hoc basis as takes their fancy.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Signallers signal trains into the platform specified in the station docker, rather than on an ad hoc basis as takes their fancy.

Yes, of course they do, even when there's a train in the platform that shouldn't be there according to the station docker

Yes, of course they do, even when there's a train in the platform that shouldn't be there according to the station docker

Because everything always runs on time and as booked

 

[43066]

It depends on the scenario. If it’s a through service and they’ve been put on top of something the driver would have to take some responsibility.

Indeed. Or if the length of your train is such that it’s impossible to go in on top of something else. There are scenarios where you’d be expected to query getting the dummy.

 

[Need2]

But that’s just not realistic when it happens to us drivers who do it sometimes several times a day & for the poor signaller on the other end.

It may not be realistic and at my toc it rarely, if ever happens but That is why we have been told to always contact the signaller to ask what is already occupying the platform.
I would do it as a matter of course even if I wasn’t specifically requested to do so.
Everyone can and will make mistakes, I will try not to compound one!

I can understand that and I'll freely admit that it doesn't happen to me that often. However, whilst we have the culture of the driver basically taking a portion of the blame for pretty much every incident, I'll do what I need to do to cover my backside.....and if that creates a slight delay or annoys the signaller then so be it....

100% agree

 

[zwk500]

Yes, of course they do, even when there's a train in the platform that shouldn't be there according to the station docker


Because everything always runs on time and as booked

It's also about minimising overall delay, for example by not trapping a train on the buffers by stacking a unit in front of it and causing a set swap at the last minute. When things have gone wrong, there isn't always a perfect answer.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, of course they do, even when there's a train in the platform that shouldn't be there according to the station docker


Because everything always runs on time and as booked

Although most are able conscientious (good) signallers are able to adapt on the fly. Minutes matter at many stations, so alterations need to be made.

Working permissively - when not booked or planned as a agreed alteration - is a bit of hassle and at a terminal the inward train has to depart before the train already sitting on the buffers AND be short enough, which often doesn't happen. If it can fit in great, but it's not the default option; often easier to juggle platforms to keep things on time.

All in all errors are a quite rare but not totally unheard of event.

 

[Watershed]

It may not be realistic and at my toc it rarely, if ever happens but That is why we have been told to always contact the signaller to ask what is already occupying the platform.

I suppose it's rather different if you work for LNER or Avanti than if you are a Southern driver for example.