Southall bi-lingual signs post Elizabeth line

[Bromley boy]

Imagine fleeing a war-torn country and ending up in the UK. Arriving suddenly with *no* grasp of English whatsover. I don't think it's unreasonable to provide some translation to help people adjust to a new way of life and culture. I'm sure it's alot to take in if it happens to you or me (which, God willing, it never will)

In that situation I’d be bloody grateful for the help and might even deign to learn the language of the country that had given me refuge.

According to a recent newspaper article I read there are around 800,000 long term U.K. residents who can’t speak English. I reckon that’s pretty outrageous.

 

[JaJaWa]

I rather bizarrely encountered a sign (attached) with no English in Manchester. I don't know how common that is.

The amount of English posted in China nowadays is incredible. English is provided on every sign and announcement in cities with very low numbers of non-Chinese visitors on metros, buses, trains, and roads. Even the driving test can be taken in English! We see so many Chinglish postings online because they translate literally everything!

 

[zuriblue]

The NHS might find a use for it. Or it could go into the defence budget or Policing. Housing?

Suggestions on the side of a bus.

Swiss TVMs all offer information I need German, French, Italian and English. I don’t know about Rumantsch, but that’s all in areas that come under the RhB.

 

[cirithungol]

The NHS might find a use for it.

They already do, as more than half of the money is spent by the NHS.

Should they turn people away because they don't speak English?

 

[DavidGrain]

Some years ago I travelled by train from Brussels to Bruges. As far as Ghent the announcements were in Flemish and French. After that they switched to English and Flemish. Just have to remember that the town we call Bruges (with a soft g) is Brugge in Flemish (with a hard g).

I have heard announcements in French on Chiltern trains to Bicester Village

 

[hexagon789]

Some years ago I travelled by train from Brussels to Bruges. As far as Ghent the announcements were in Flemish and French. After that they switched to English and Flemish. Just have to remember that the town we call Bruges (with a soft g) is Brugge in Flemish (with a hard g).

I have heard announcements in French on Chiltern trains to Bicester Village

I've never heard anything other than English (and once Gaelic) announcements on a British train.

 

[DavidGrain]

I've never heard anything other than English (and once Gaelic) announcements on a British train.

As others have mentioned, travelling on Chiltern between Marylebone and Oxford means that you experience announcement in several languages.

 

[hexagon789]

As others have mentioned, travelling on Chiltern between Marylebone and Oxford means that you experience announcement in several languages.

I seem to recall hearing that there were announcements in Mandarin for Bicester Village.

 

[lewisf]

I've never heard anything other than English (and once Gaelic) announcements on a British train.

Announcements are in English, French and German on the Gatwick Express I believe.

 

[hexagon789]

Announcements are in English, French and German on the Gatwick Express I believe.

Sensible enough, we don't really make enough effort. Surely even just English, French and German would be easy enough to implement at least on main services. Certainly when I've been abroad 3, even 4 languages is common on InterCity services.

 

[matt_world2004]

There is now a new johnston sign at the entrance to southall station that is bilingual I dont know what the font of the second language is. It could be a gurmurki equivilent of new johnston

 

[hooverboy]

Sensible enough, we don't really make enough effort. Surely even just English, French and German would be easy enough to implement at least on main services. Certainly when I've been abroad 3, even 4 languages is common on InterCity services.

I think that's probably a bit unfair.

english is the default second language for nearly every county in the world.
also, on the continent, it is customary for the kids to start learning the language younger, and for longer...which actually makes learning it easier than starting one of 4 languages at 11 for 2 hours a week...so it's no wonder their standard of english is generally pretty good.

Fair point about announcements in other languages on trains for connections to airports/other important trains ie eurostar and terminii. should be done IMHO. stansted express does,eurostar does but not much else.

 

[ijmad]

I think that's probably a bit unfair.

english is the default second language for nearly every county in the world.
also, on the continent, it is customary for the kids to start learning the language younger, and for longer...which actually makes learning it easier than starting one of 4 languages at 11 for 2 hours a week...so it's no wonder their standard of english is generally pretty good.

Less than 1% of Chinese people speak fluent English, yet all the announcements and signs on their high speed trains and metro systems are in Mandarin Chinese and English.

 

[Warwick]

Because heaven forbid that we might have signs that acknowledge that there are places in England where significant parts of the population speak languages other than English.

They live here. They should learn the language - just like those "ex pats" in Spain and Malta.

 

[PR1Berske]

They live here. They should learn the language - just like those "ex pats" in Spain and Malta.

And how many ex-pats in Spain learn Spanish beyond rudimentary requests in shops and bars, I wonder?

People who live here are under no obligation to learn any language, of course. They require conversational English for many day to day tasks, no doubt, but anything beyond that is their choice. English people in Wales are under no obligation to learn Welsh, though the rudimentary basics would be a good start, not to mention polite. The balance is always there to be struck. I wouldn't dare suggest that an immigrant must learn perfect English before being given the chance to earn a wage.

Given the English used on the streets in every day Britain - that fused with Internet slang, that born from "Hinglish" and "Franglais", that from those born in the 1960s, that from those born in the 2000s, that used by Polish cleaners in hospital corridors, that used by mechanics on a Friday night in a provincial club, that used by Asian supermarket owners, that used by rail enthusiasts, that used by teenagers on street corners - there cannot be a single, solitary, official "English" which must be learned by "them" anyway.

We are a nation born of conquest, immigration, war, and migration, a literal mix of races on a rainy island in the Atlantic. Our language is a mix of Celtic, Arabic, even Afrikaans. We have no right, no right at all, demanding that other people must speak English, nor do we have the right to define what is correct or incorrect English.

 

[Warwick]

You've missed my point completely. You've even twisted my reply to suggest that I claim that "ex-pats" speak the local language whereas I stated the opposite. English - or any other people - living in Wales should be under no obligation to appeal Welsh as Wales is a minority language much as Cornish is in Cornwall although the proportion of Welsh speakers in Wales is higher. It doesn't matter what antecedents that the English language has (you left out Norman French and Latin) people living and working here should be able to communicate.

 

[TheWalrus]

This thread makes me laugh so much, I bet the same people thinking signs should only be in English as it's England would be the same ones that complain abroad they don't know where they are as all the signs are in Arabic (insert any other language you fancy) and they don't do a full fried with normal bacon!! Truly unbelievable.

When in Rome…

 

[WideRanger]

They live here. They should learn the language - just like those "ex pats" in Spain and Malta.

Maybe the people who are making these decisions are not thinking along the lines of culture wars at all. Perhaps they have taken a purely commercial decision - that the increase in custom from people who are more attracted to use the service is greater than the additional cost of the signs minus the lost custom from people who can't bear to see things in another language.

 

[6Gman]

The majority of residents in Wales can't speak Welsh particularly in the South. They speak English. How much does it cost them to have bi-lingual signs unnecessarily. I'm glad I left Wales in the mid 1960s before all this nonsense of making English speaking children learn Welsh in school when they don't want to. Where else in the world is being able to speak Welsh beneficial ?

My house.

Parts of Argentina.

 

[LeeLivery]

There is now a new johnston sign at the entrance to southall station that is bilingual I dont know what the font of the second language is. It could be a gurmurki equivilent of new johnston

Here we go. Tried to embed to wouldn't work, so there's the link to Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/28pXrbo

 

[PR1Berske]

Here we go. Tried to embed to wouldn't work, so there's the link to Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/28pXrbo

It matches the Hindi-language Wikipedia article for Southall - https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/साउथॉल

 

[Francis]

According to the 2011 UK Census, 557 people in England and Wales declared their first language to be Cornish (Kernewek), and it is estimated that several thousand more are fluent in it. Cornish is a recognised minority language in the UK and is protected under the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages. The Cornish are now recognised as a national minority by the UK Government, and Cornwall County Council''s policy is to support the language. A number of bilingual street signs now appear in the County.

Cornish is related to the Welsh language, although its closest counterpart is Breton as the two regions once had very close ties.

Good to hear that Cornish is undergoing a revival. At one time it seemed to have almost died out. The British Government lives up to its responsibility by protecting Welsh and Scots Gaelic. The French Government breaks EU law and stubbornly refuses to protect Breton, which now has only about 200,000 speakers, down from one million a century ago.

 

[sprunt]

I believe that many Japanese think it is cool to use English. You see many companies using the "Roman" alphabet for product names or slogans.

Forum relevant example of this from when I visited Tokyo:

 

[krus_aragon]

Forum relevant example of this from when I visited Tokyo:

View attachment 53844

Is that on the Victoria Line? :P

 

[WideRanger]

Is that on the Victoria Line? :P

That picture is taken just off Take****a Dori, near Harajuku station on the JR Yamanote Line.

Edit: for some reason the middle letters have been censored in the street name above (I guess because in isolation they form a mild swear word)

 

[krus_aragon]

That picture is taken just off Take****a Dori, near Harajuku station on the JR Yamanote Line.

Edit: for some reason the middle letters have been censored in the street name above (I guess because in isolation they form a mild swear word)

Ah well. I'm sure Prince Albert would have described her as such...

 

[greyman42]

The French Government breaks EU law and stubbornly refuses to protect Breton,

Perhaps this is due to the French Government not seeing it as a priority.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Here we go. Tried to embed to wouldn't work, so there's the link to Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/28pXrbo

Interestingly word for Southall on the sign linked above doesn't exactly match the word on the Wikipedia Punjabi page for the town https://pa.wikipedia.org/wiki/ਸਾਊਥਾਲ

I couldn't say whether that difference might be for grammatical reasons (different spelling for a different grammatical case), or whether it's two different transliterations in Punjabi of the English word, or even a typo.


Edit: the spellings are
ਸਾਊਥਹਾਲ
versus
ਸਾਊਥਾਲ

the extra letter, ਹ, appears to be a "ha" sound, so it looks like one transliteration of "South-hall" and one of "South-all", as the letter before the extra letter, ਥ, is the "th" sound of South, the ਾ is a long "a" sound, and the ਲ is an "L" sound.

 

[Wtloild]

Was recently trying to sus what language the PA announcement at Manchester Piccadilly was in (Welsh?, Polish?).
After listening a bit harder, I realised it was English, spoken by a Geordie.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It matches the Hindi-language Wikipedia article for Southall - https://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/साउथॉल

It doesn't really. If you look closely at the shapes of the 'letters' on the final word on the sign, you'll see they are different shapes from the ones in the Wikipedia article. And going further - I can read a bit of Hindi, and I'm pretty sure the text on that sign is not Hindi, and is not in the Devanagari script that Hindi is written in.

I don't know any Punjabi, but the letters in the script do seem to match up with the Gurmukhi script that Punjabi is written in, so based on that, I'd strongly suspect the sign is in English and Punjabi.