Southeastern to scrap trolley service

[TheJRB]

Saw this article on the Kent Online site:

Kent rail operator Southeastern Trains to scrap onboard catering service

If you need a morning jolt of caffeine to fuel your commute make sure you buy a coffee on the platform – all onboard catering will be scrapped on Kent train services from the end of October.

Southeastern has decided not to renew the contract with catering firm Rail Gourmet because providing an onboard trolley service is ‘no longer commercially sustainable.’

It is believed the move could put about 30 jobs at risk, although Southeastern said it was looking at opportunities it could offer Rail Gourmet staff.

Southeastern’s longest journey - barring delays - is the Ramsgate to London service which takes just under two hours.

Charles King, south east spokesman for passenger group Rail Focus, thinks travellers should expect on-board refreshments for longer journeys.

He said: “It’s a long way down to deepest darkest Kent. I think it’s reasonable that facilities are provided for any journey over an hour, at least for part of the way.”

The contract with Rail Gourmet is up for renewal at the end of October and after it runs out, no refreshments of any kind will be available onboard trains.

Southeastern has said it will keep a supply of water onboard for emergencies.

The rail operator was granted a direct franchise by the Department for Transport on September 11, extending its contract until June 2018.

Like many rail operators, Southeastern rents space on its stations to shops and café firms, which brings in extra revenue.

Southeastern is scrapping its onboard buffet service. Picture: Stock image
The firm would not divulge how much it will save by scrapping onboard trolley services, but Passenger Focus, a rail travellers’ lobby group, stressed the money should not go towards the company’s bottom line.

Linda McCord, Passenger Focus manager, said: “It is important that the money Southeastern saves by scrapping on-board catering is invested in improving its services.

“Passengers who do like to buy a tea or coffee on the train will be disappointed by this decision.”

Southeastern has defended the move saying most stations now have businesses providing refreshments to commuters on the platform, making on-board catering unnecessary.

A spokesman said: “It used to be only larger stations that had platform kiosks and cafes but now even the smaller ones normally offer a place where you can get freshly brewed coffee.

“Why are you going to get instant on the train when you can buy freshly brewed coffee on the platform?”

I think it's terrible. Quite frankly, it's one of the few things which makes the long old hack to Charing Cross bearable. Plus the amount of times I've thought "wouldn't it have been nice to have a drink now" and along comes the trolley with a pleasant surprise.

There's 30 jobs at risk here and 30 people who work hard on that trolley service. I've always been keen to use it as and when I can and now it's at risk and will doubtless go. It's a long journey from Ramsgate to Charing Cross or Victoria and even though some people might choose or rather be taking out a suitable journey to use their shiny HS1 service, for some the Tonbridge line, or the Chatham Main Line is the only option (say for those travelling to Sevenoaks, Bromley or Orpington).

Can't afford it? I'd like to see how they work that one out. Ha! What a complete and utter deplorable and retrograde step. Then again it was something pleasant which improved the experience, so it was never going to last. :roll:

 

[cf111]

The state of catering on trains has degraded a great deal.

I travel the Far North Line on a regular basis and the earliest train south, which is the 0620 from Wick, only has a trolley on a Saturday. It's a bloody long trek to Inverness without a coffee in the winter.

 

[broadgage]

This is known as progress.
Restaurants are replaced by buffets
Buffets are replaced by a trolley service
The trolley is replaced by nothing.

 

[TheJRB]

The state of catering on trains has degraded a great deal.

I travel the Far North Line on a regular basis and the earliest train south, which is the 0620 from Wick, only has a trolley on a Saturday. It's a bloody long trek to Inverness without a coffee in the winter.

I must confess that on a commuter operation like Southeastern is does seem more of a nice extra than on some remote lines like the Far North which you'd imagine to be almost a necessity.

This is known as progress.
Restaurants are replaced by buffets
Buffets are replaced by a trolley service
The trolley is replaced by nothing.

I was thinking along those lines. It's sad. I know you can buy teas and coffees at the station before hand (for those stations big enough to have such facilities, i.e. definitely not Pluckley), but it is always nice to know you can get it on the train.

 

[Urban Gateline]

This is known as progress.
Restaurants are replaced by buffets
Buffets are replaced by a trolley service
The trolley is replaced by nothing.

Cheap supermarket deals are probably part of the demise of on-train catering, so many people buy with a limited budget including me, I prefer to bring my own food (Supermarket meal deal) onto the Train as it's so much cheaper! Whilst I feel sorry for the Staff whose jobs are at risk, I won't miss the overpriced goods!

 

[Clip]

Lets be honest here though, Ive done the trek from Vic to Margate for many many years at all times of the day and most of the time you were lucky if the trolley passed you once. Most of the time they would walk through once and then just sit at the end of the train and not bother again after bromley south.

I have raised this many a time with SET and the guards on the services but nothing was doing. In effect it is that attitude from some of the staff which has led to the downfall of the trolley service.

 

[TheJRB]

Cheap supermarket deals are probably part of the demise of on-train catering, so many people buy with a limited budget including me, I prefer to bring my own food (Supermarket meal deal) onto the Train as it's so much cheaper! Whilst I feel sorry for the Staff whose jobs are at risk, I won't miss the overpriced goods!

I can certainly see that it was much more expensive but the convenience factor I suppose and the fact that not everybody uses the trolley is what pushes the price up.

Lets be honest here though, Ive done the trek from Vic to Margate for many many years at all times of the day and most of the time you were lucky if the trolley passed you once. Most of the time they would walk through once and then just sit at the end of the train and not bother again after bromley south.

I have raised this many a time with SET and the guards on the services but nothing was doing. In effect it is that attitude from some of the staff which has led to the downfall of the trolley service.

I know this has been the case but a lot of the time I've seen the trolley pass a couple of times between Ashford and London. Even on the short journey from Rochester to Bromley I took earlier this year I saw the trolley and thought blimey, I could do with a coffee actually!

 

[Tetchytyke]

That's what GoVia do though. Run the service down and then claim nobody is using it. There hasn't been catering on the peak trains for ages, which is where most of the custom will be, and there has never been any catering on the High Speed services that most off-peak passengers use.

They did exactly the same thing at London Midland and, I'm sure, will be doing it at Southern with the new franchise.

In other news, GoVia are making record profits in their rail division.

 

[ComUtoR]

In effect it is that attitude from some of the staff which has led to the downfall of the trolley service.

I have never every had a "trolley dolly" with a poor attitude and have found them to be amongst the nicest staff on SE. Many do not go back down the train again because they have found that its often not worth the journey, difficult to traverse busy trains, or simply cant make it due to time constraints.

Typically they go from one end to the other and back to the front on the next trip. Have we become so fat and lazy that we cannot get out our seat and go grab a cuppa. We used to when there were buffet cars but not now as its our right to be served at our seat instead :/

Whilst I have no issue with them being removed. I would hope that SE manages to employ them into other grades. Not forgetting that they have promised additional staff under the DAC.

 

[physics34]

I still think there is a place for a buffet car on many peak hour trains into/out of london from kent, surrey and sussex.

I think the train companies are missing a trick here.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Typically they go from one end to the other and back to the front on the next trip. Have we become so fat and lazy that we cannot get out our seat and go grab a cuppa. We used to when there were buffet cars but not now as its our right to be served at our seat instead :/

Indeed, though the constant warnings to never leave belongings unattended may deter some infrequent users from doing so. I would also think a trolley probably takes more money than just a counter service as it does allow for people who wouldn't use the buffet to buy something as the opportunity has arisen.

 

[Busaholic]

Lets be honest here though, Ive done the trek from Vic to Margate for many many years at all times of the day and most of the time you were lucky if the trolley passed you once. Most of the time they would walk through once and then just sit at the end of the train and not bother again after bromley south.

I have raised this many a time with SET and the guards on the services but nothing was doing. In effect it is that attitude from some of the staff which has led to the downfall of the trolley service.

Given the price of hot drinks and the huge profit margins thereon the staff should be incentivised by a bonus of,say, 20p for each drink sold. It's the drink element which is really needed, as someone else has said, people will have bought their sandwich at M&S or wherever. Must say, when I was a Kent commuter decades ago, and never saw so much as a curling sandwich being offered on the train it used to enrage me when the Brighton commuters complained when they couldn't get smoked haddock at all hours, for a journey of barely more than an hour, but then they had Sir Laurence Olivier as their spokesman, whereas we could only run to Charles Hawtrey!

 

[Carlisle]

The state of catering on trains has degraded a great deal.

I travel the Far North Line on a regular basis and the earliest train south, which is the 0620 from Wick, only has a trolley on a Saturday. It's a bloody long trek to Inverness without a coffee in the winter.

That's interesting as I can remember seeing First advertising for trolley staff on that route about 2 or 3 years ago

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I still think there is a place for a buffet car on many peak hour trains into/out of london from kent, surrey and sussex.

I think the train companies are missing a trick here.

When we had the BEPs & BIG's on the Portsmouth line, all you used to get was the drunken city boy's in the evening on them, outside the peaks they were seldom used because of the pricing structure.

In the end they were replace with a trolley which used to be located in the brake vans & that despite the high prices was again still drunk dry by Haslemere! But now they RG trolley service on 1Pxx & 1Wxx doesn't exactly make a lot of money and it's all down to pricing.

Am I going to buy a cup of instant coffee, sandwich, crisps & something sweet from a trolley, which will cost me a fortune or buy a £3 meal deal from M&S, Boots etc which will include a bottle of drink (which can be kept for later) & then get a decent freshly made latté, cappuccino or expresso for less money, especially if you have a BITE card as well. It's a no brainer really.

 

[HH]

Was this a SE decision alone or did DfT sign off on it to get a bigger premium in the DA?

 

[Tetchytyke]

then get a decent freshly made latté, cappuccino or expresso for less money

I suppose it depends on context. Last time I was out Dover way it was an early morning train so there was no catering. The latte I bought at London Bridge was very nice indeed, but it was cold by Tonbridge.

I could have murdered a second cuppa. And when I got on the ferry to Calais I did.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

At the end of the day, this is a privatised industry, it's here to do one thing & one thing alone and that's make money, nothing more nothing less.

Everyone has the option to buy before boarding, better still buy a thermal leakproof mug like the Contigo range on Amazon and make your own coffee at home & before you leave work and save a small fortune!

 

[cf111]

That's interesting as I can remember seeing First advertising for trolley staff on that route about 2 or 3 years ago

There are still three southbound and four northbound trains a day in each direction that require catering and I know of at least two catering people who are now Guards.

 

[Clip]

I have never every had a "trolley dolly" with a poor attitude and have found them to be amongst the nicest staff on SE. Many do not go back down the train again because they have found that its often not worth the journey, difficult to traverse busy trains, or simply cant make it due to time constraints.

Typically they go from one end to the other and back to the front on the next trip. Have we become so fat and lazy that we cannot get out our seat and go grab a cuppa. We used to when there were buffet cars but not now as its our right to be served at our seat instead :/

Whilst I have no issue with them being removed. I would hope that SE manages to employ them into other grades. Not forgetting that they have promised additional staff under the DAC.

That kind of defeats the point of it being an at seat trolley service doesnt it. But many a time I have gone to find them, leaving my stuff unattended which we are told not to do.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I suppose it depends on context. Last time I was out Dover way it was an early morning train so there was no catering. The latte I bought at London Bridge was very nice indeed, but it was cold by Tonbridge.

I could have murdered a second cuppa. And when I got on the ferry to Calais I did.

As I said buy one of these:

http://www.mycontigo.com/product.asp?id=2

Get them from Amazon & Ebay, I've got one for work and now they're catching on there, because they're 100% leakproof so you can stick them in your bag & it won't leak unless of course the button gets pressed. And over a year, the cost of the mug is soon recuperated, by not paying for Costalot or Starducks coffees each morning & evening, in fact it only needs around about 9 or 10 coffees from either to pay for the mug & after that the coffee or tea that you drink is pretty much free as you bring it from home/office. It keeps things really hot for about 2-2½ hours, 3 hours is more or less drink it straight down temperature.

 

[trentside]

Contigo travel mugs are a good investment, and are indeed leak proof under normal circumstances - I've had one for a good few years, before they became well known over here. My only criticism is that the lids on the older design are quite hard to clean, but it would appear they've addressed this issue.

It's little consolation for the loss of a fresh cup of coffee though - I remember the trolley on SouthEastern providing quite a good cup.

 

[Mugby]

Seems to be an opportune moment to bring back those self-heating cans of coffee.
Remember them? a ring pull to activate a heating element inside the can.

Sell them on stations to people undertaking long journeys, particularly the Highland lines!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I have a travel mug for my commute as the filter coffee I have at home is nicer than the stuff they sell on my local station. But even the best travel mugs on the market don't keep your drink warm forever.

You are assuming that everyone who uses the Kent Coast trains is only travelling between London and Kent, and that home is in one of those places. Given the touristy places in Kent, that's not really true.

GoVia don't want to run a trolley, just as they didn't on London Midland. That much is obvious, and the service has gradually been run down. It's a shame.

 

[LowLevel]

My cheapo Tesco's own one is solid as a rock and keeps a drink hot for a couple of hours if you let it. By the time I've done tickets etc on busy trains it can be this length of time and my drink is still fine when I get back to it.

 

[Busaholic]

At the end of the day, this is a privatised industry, it's here to do one thing & one thing alone and that's make money, nothing more nothing less.

Everyone has the option to buy before boarding, better still buy a thermal leakproof mug like the Contigo range on Amazon and make your own coffee at home & before you leave work and save a small fortune!

And there was me thinking the one thing the railway industry was here to do was to get people where they wanted to go, on a train along a track, at a price they could afford. How deluded I have been! The Brunels would be proud to think all the men who got killed building that tunnel under the Thames would have as their memorial that they provided the wherewithal for a lot of private companies to get stinking-rich. I can think of no other country where such a view as you expostulate would be tolerated for one second. If only the companies would come out and say this and we can start the serious process of expunging them and getting the hundred of millions saved in providing better services for the public.

 

[Clip]

And there was me thinking the one thing the railway industry was here to do was to get people where they wanted to go, on a train along a track, at a price they could afford. How deluded I have been! The Brunels would be proud to think all the men who got killed building that tunnel under the Thames would have as their memorial that they provided the wherewithal for a lot of private companies to get stinking-rich. I can think of no other country where such a view as you expostulate would be tolerated for one second. If only the companies would come out and say this and we can start the serious process of expunging them and getting the hundred of millions saved in providing better services for the public.

You mean teh same Brunels who used private finance for said tunnel to ensure a quicker transfer of goods accross the thames to make more money fro their private backers???

 

[sd0733]

Profit was really the reason Brunel and Stevenson etc built the railways to start with. To get rich themselves was the reason most lines were built at all, it certainly wasn't done through the goodness of their hearts to provide a service.

 

[MalHT]

But many a time I have gone to find them, leaving my stuff unattended which we are told not to do.

I've never been told not to leave anything on the luggage rack or on my seat between stops. How else would one use a buffet car?

 

[Tetchytyke]

The old railway companies used to compete on service, who could have the plushest or the fastest trains, who could have the best food. The best service made the most money.

Instead of competition with genuine financial risk we now have privatised franchises who get given an awful lot of money for some old rope. It's a shame, but without genuine competition it will only ever be a race to the bottom.

Speaking of races to the bottom, leaving things "unattended" isn't a problem on CrossCountry, where you are helpfully forced to leave all your bags on a hidden luggage rack right by the doors to the train. It used to be a well-stocked and useful shop. So it goes.

 

[Clip]

I've never been told not to leave anything on the luggage rack or on my seat between stops. How else would one use a buffet car?

Thats just being pedantic though and you really did know what I was getting at.