Southern Only tickets and validity on Gatwick Express

[yorkie]

No sign of any company called Gatwick Express being owned by Govia!

Apparently a member of this forum has spoken to a manager who, despite being high up in the company, indicated you have to be very high up to know if Gatwick Express is a separate company or not for certain. He apparently said something like "My salary isn't high enough to know"! But anyone at the grade of a duty manager or below will "believe that it is a separate company" because that is what they have been told! Hmmm..!

Anyone in the London area fancy going to Victoria and asking them?

Apparently someone asked for a company number and was given a leaflet and told "it will be in there"... surprise, surprise, it wasn't.

The company number of Gatwick Express Ltd is 02912338, this company is owned by National Express, was formed on 21/03/1994 in preparation for private operation which started in 1996, and the nature of the business is now '7499 - Non-trading company'.

Since 2008, services have been operated by Southern. It is Southern who operate these trains, and there is no company operating trains called Gatwick Express. A fact that is apparently kept secret from all but a handful of high-up managers at Southern!

 

[Tomonthetrain]

Right all

What i have done went to Cradley Heath (ironically another govia station) and brought a daysave.

It says on it "Any Southern Train". I have followed advice that has been sent to me via PM and have printed off a few things.

 

[calc7]

Confirmed in an email to me received this afternoon by National Rail Customer Relations:


"Thank you for your email. I understand that Gatwick Express is not a separate Train Company."

They'll be changing the website.

 

[transportphoto]

Today I have been confirmed to by Southern that Gatwick Express is only a Trading name of Southern Railway Limited, it has not yet been confirmed to me that Southern Only tickets are valid on the services which Southern operate under their trading name however this does confirm that the services are Southern operated

TP

 

[ushawk]

I think this topic really demonstrates how Southern really do need to sort out the GX. Obviously if the tickets say "Not Gatwick Express" then thats clear, but "Southern Only" isnt clear for the reasons already posted.

Yes GX isnt a company anymore, it is only a brand and even thats now being changed to "Express" only. If they dont want people using Southern Only tickets on the GX - then why dont they just mark them "Not Gatwick Express" ?

Although ive just thought that then people may think its ok for use on FGW or FCC, so maybe "SN only, not GX" - but then people would say its too confusing - easier way to sort this for Southern - scrap the GX !!!

 

[jon0844]

When the trains became branded 'Express' without the Gatwick, I figured they'd already scrapped GX. I would very much like to know if they announce it as Gatwick Express on the train itself? The 460s still have Gatwick Express all over them (for now?).

 

[Francis]

I've had a £12.50 Downlander bought in advance over the internet and printed off a couple of times. You can only start after 10 am but it's valid over the whole Southern network, but only on Southern trains. And even as far as Milton Keynes.

Once or twice inspectors have said - shouldn't you have exchanged that for a ticket at a ticket office, but no, the printed copy is valid. Cheers.

 

[ushawk]

When the trains became branded 'Express' without the Gatwick, I figured they'd already scrapped GX. I would very much like to know if they announce it as Gatwick Express on the train itself? The 460s still have Gatwick Express all over them (for now?).

I think the 460's are debranded and are only in the GX colours on the outside, they were when a couple were out at the weekend anyway.

 

[jon0844]

The one I was on last week still said Gatwick Express outside and inside, as well as on the CIS (including saying you could buy tickets on board). This was after the barrier checks started on December 12th.

Don't know what the unit number was.

 

[ushawk]

Think I definitely saw 02 unbranded, unsure about the others - 03 is at Bournemouth I think as I remember seeing a video of the move on youtube. The CIS hasn't been changed on the 442's yet either I believe.

I find it funny that the current advert at the top of the page for me is actually for Gatwick Express too

 

[transportphoto]

Look at this, ATOC arguing! I have to laugh!

https://www.facebook.com/NREGatwickExpress/posts/294287860609005?ref=notif&notif_t=feed_comment

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes GX isnt a company anymore, it is only a brand and even thats now being changed to "Express" only. If they dont want people using Southern Only tickets on the GX - then why dont they just mark them "Not Gatwick Express" ?

Because then there'd be nothing to stop them being used on SWT, SE, FGW and FCC... As you'd know from all the other times this simple solution has been proposed here...

 

[yorkie]

Although ive just thought that then people may think its ok for use on FGW or FCC, so maybe "SN only, not GX" - but then people would say its too confusing - easier way to sort this for Southern - scrap the GX !!!

Condition 10 only allows them to restrict by "company" not route or brand. Therefore, any proposed solutions would not be viable/enforceable/legal.

An ATOC/NRES employee, in order to prove a point asked "Which livery are the Gatwick Express trains in?" someone needs to answer that with "Well, the 1630 Gatwick Express departure from Platform 14 was, unsurprisingly, in the same livery as the 1610 Brighton Express arrival into Platform 14. That's because it's the same train, operated by the same company!" though the livery argument is utterly irrelevant and I am surprised ATOC even attempted it!

 

[button_boxer]

Condition 10 only allows them to restrict by "company" not route or brand. Therefore, any proposed solutions would not be viable/enforceable/legal.

In which case (playing devil's advocate) how can Virgin Only tickets be enforceable as that is a brand name of the company West Coast Trains Ltd? Yes it is true that all West Coast Trains services are branded Virgin but it's still a brand and not a company.

 

[yorkie]

In which case (playing devil's advocate) how can Virgin Only tickets be enforceable as that is a brand name of the company West Coast Trains Ltd? Yes it is true that all West Coast Trains services are branded Virgin but it's still a brand and not a company.

Virgin is what West Coast Trains Ltd are known as. The tickets are valid on all trains of that company.

The restriction applies to the company, not the brand name, unless they change the NRCoC!

However in nearly all cases one trading name = one company, so there is no issue.

NXEA don't go instructing their staff to claim Stansted Express is a separate company! You don't see anyone charged an excess on the Stansted Express for using an NXEA Only ticket.

The situation is the same: neither are TOCs but ATOC falsely claim they are.

 

[paul1609]

I've had a £12.50 Downlander bought in advance over the internet and printed off a couple of times. You can only start after 10 am but it's valid over the whole Southern network, but only on Southern trains. And even as far as Milton Keynes.

Once or twice inspectors have said - shouldn't you have exchanged that for a ticket at a ticket office, but no, the printed copy is valid. Cheers.

My latest downlander (14.12) had not valid on gatwick express services in bold on the printed sheet

 

[radamfi]

If the GEx is scrapped, would Southern simply jack up the fare up to the GEx fare? Would there at least be a substantial increase? Or would fare regulation prevent this?

 

[yorkie]

If the GEx is scrapped, would Southern simply jack up the fare up to the GEx fare? Would there at least be a substantial increase? Or would fare regulation prevent this?

Southern only fares exist to get extra revenue for Southern compared to using FCC. Perhaps Southern could charge twice the price as FCC but people would desert them and use FCC instead.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

The staff on my train denied they were southetn but gave in when I argued that they are Southern. Then it was changed to 'why do you think it costs more?' yeah good point, you answer that! The answer according to them is 'because its express'.

So lets hope GW dont catch on and put express on the side to charge people more to do Padd - reading, and cheaper fares given to be shoved on an all stopper Turbo....other examples could be done on Southeastern, SWT, FCC etc

 

[Brucey]

The staff on my train denied they were southetn but gave in when I argued that they are Southern. Then it was changed to 'why do you think it costs more?' yeah good point, you answer that! The answer according to them is 'because its express'.

If TOCs (or should I just say staff on the ground) are going to start arguing that point, then by definition, a FGW service between FRM and SOU should cost more than a SWT service as it doesn't stop at any intermediate station.

 

[swt_passenger]

The staff on my train denied they were southetn but gave in when I argued that they are Southern. Then it was changed to 'why do you think it costs more?' yeah good point, you answer that! The answer according to them is 'because its express'.

If I'd been there I would have asked if they knew about the recent case at the Advertising Standards Agency that decided it isn't an express service, as FCC got to London quicker...

 

[yorkie]

The staff on my train denied they were southetn but gave in when I argued that they are Southern. Then it was changed to 'why do you think it costs more?' yeah good point, you answer that! The answer according to them is 'because its express'.

Yep, quite a few people have reported that being used as an excuse, despite the fact it is an "express" service bearing no relation to the contract, otherwise we'd have problems with the Cambridge Express, Brighton Express, FGW High Speed services and so on...

Did they go on about the "umbrella company" and say it's "sort of" a different company to you too?

 

[calc7]

Under the same argument, Virgin would be able to charge its xx00 (duration 2h07) EUS-MAN passangers more than those on the xx40 (2h09). Which we would all agree is ridiculous.

 

[dzug2]

So lets hope GW dont catch on and put express on the side to charge people more to do Padd - reading, and cheaper fares given to be shoved on an all stopper Turbo....

But they do - by means of fewer peak restrictions on the stoppers

 

[yorkie]

Southern are still telling people Gatwick Express is a "separate company" and won't budge, they simply will not accept the DfT position. Anyone able to write to their MP about this? Preferably if you're based in the London/Gatwick areas

 

[jon0844]

I had to laugh at the Facebook page, but at the same time it's rather sad (and worrying) that people can become official spokespeople for a company/industry and be totally misinformed.

 

[yorkie]

I had to laugh at the Facebook page, but at the same time it's rather sad (and worrying) that people can become official spokespeople for a company/industry and be totally misinformed.

It's been deleted now but that person initially said "we" when referring to Gatwick Express, then distanced himself and admitted he works for NRE/ATOC.

 

[blakey1152]

My latest downlander (14.12) had not valid on gatwick express services in bold on the printed sheet

I used a downlander all network ticket today and sure enough it does indeed clearly state NOT valid on Gatwick Express

 

[The Colonel]

Getting back to the OP's point

Hi all

I am planning a trip on the Southern network and was wondering if there is a ticket that would cover the whole network including the services branded as Gatwick Express. I aim to cover from Victoria: Gatwick, Eastbourne, Ashford International and Brighton and possibly Worthing (time depending).

If anyone could help I would be greatful.

Tomonthetrain

and this one

Is anyone interested in actually trying a 442 meet up bash with a daysave, would love to see the conductor try it with a bunch of 10 people moaning about and excess needed, then having to send a letter off for 10 x £5 of refunds!

I doubt they will be quick for that, I'm still waiting for my fiver from November....or was it September...some time ago anyway!

I might be interested in a Daysave bash to get both 442 haulage and my last 171. However a thing to bear in mind is this:-
http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/essential-repair-work-to-ore-tunnel-in-january-important-information/

There are no trains from Ashford to Hastings during this period. I'm not sure if the 171's will operate Hastings to Brighton in thier booked times as normal during the works. An idea is to use the bus from Lewes to Uckfield as a shortcut to get the 171's without going all the way back to E Croydon by train.

As far as practicilities are concered there are 3 -
1) You can get on a 442 Service at Gatwick as your ticket will get you through the barriers anyway.
2) I suspect a Daysave would work the barriers at Victoria too.
3) If tickets are not now sold on the Gatex services are they checked?

If a bash is going to occur I may be interested - Saturdays are a little difficult but weekdays at present are ok with me. I've had peak Daysaves before as I can get the services from Guildford and if the bash finishes later I can get to Leatherhead and a SWT single ticket back from there.

The Colonel

 

[paul1609]

Getting back to the OP's point



and this one



I might be interested in a Daysave bash to get both 442 haulage and my last 171. However a thing to bear in mind is this:-
http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/news/essential-repair-work-to-ore-tunnel-in-january-important-information/

There are no trains from Ashford to Hastings during this period. I'm not sure if the 171's will operate Hastings to Brighton in thier booked times as normal during the works. An idea is to use the bus from Lewes to Uckfield as a shortcut to get the 171's without going all the way back to E Croydon by train.

As far as practicilities are concered there are 3 -
1) You can get on a 442 Service at Gatwick as your ticket will get you through the barriers anyway.
2) I suspect a Daysave would work the barriers at Victoria too.
3) If tickets are not now sold on the Gatex services are they checked?

If a bash is going to occur I may be interested - Saturdays are a little difficult but weekdays at present are ok with me. I've had peak Daysaves before as I can get the services from Guildford and if the bash finishes later I can get to Leatherhead and a SWT single ticket back from there.

The Colonel

I haven't used a Daysave since the price went up to £12 as the Downlander is now much better value for me, but it didn't work any barriers the last time I used one.