Southern, Thameslink & Great Northern 'Not On Strike' Details

[Bald Rick]

Word on the street is that ASLEF are quite concerned about the ‘Optics’ of this for them.

which is unusual, if true, as normally they have no concern about public opinion.

 

[JonathanH]

Word on the street is that ASLEF are quite concerned about the ‘Optics’ of this for them.

which is unusual, if true, as normally they have no concern about public opinion.

Surely it is too late to do anything about it now? Are ASLEF genuinely getting the blame here?

Is the way round it to have some staff come on overtime at 0001 on Sunday morning?

 

[Adsy125]

Word on the street is that ASLEF are quite concerned about the ‘Optics’ of this for them.

which is unusual, if true, as normally they have no concern about public opinion.

There has been a very strong social media presence from their supporters, with pretty much every tweet even vaguely critical of them being replied to. Something along the lines of they're running trains to Brighton on other overtime ban days, they could just run them on Saturday too - effectively trying to move the blame entirely to GTR.

 

[infobleep]

It’s not that hard to understand.

During the Saturday of Pride, everything arriving in Brighton from mid-morning onwards is rammed, and likewise everything departing from mid-evening, to the extent there was a serious crowd control incident, pre-Covid.

This year, due to the overtime ban, they can’t run as many trains, so the number of intending passengers won’t fit, or risks leaving Pride-goers stranded in Brighton. Both creating unacceptable risks.

Regarding ‘Why can’t they focus resources on Brighton, at the expense of other lines?’, well:

- Other lines already have a reduced service on OT ban days
- Leaving other lines completely unserved would be a questionable move. Pride is important, but people still need to get to work (etc) elsewhere
- Do the drivers on other lines ‘know’ Brighton?
- Who is going to come-up with another bespoke timetable, at very short notice? (Clerks working overtime, maybe….?)
- Even then: do you have enough drivers and other staff to run the enhanced, and necessary, late-night services from Brighton, to clear the crowds?

If councils, Pride etc wish to challenge any of the facts, the question I’d ask them by return is:

’Are you willing to underwrite the safety risks, corporately and personally, and state publicly that you’ve done so?’

Well they are leaving sections of lines unserved as it is. For example one can't travel from Haywards Heath to Eastbourne. It's not desirable to walk from Eastbourne to Brighton either. Perhaps it is from Lewes.

 

[bicbasher]

Well they are leaving sections of lines unserved as it is. For example one can't travel from Haywards Heath to Eastbourne. It's not desirable to walk from Eastbourne to Brighton either. Perhaps it is from Lewes.

Eastbourne and Lewes have regular bus services to Brighton.

 

[pompeyfan]

Surely it is too late to do anything about it now? Are ASLEF genuinely getting the blame here?

Is the way round it to have some staff come on overtime at 0001 on Sunday morning?

Hard not to agree that even if ASLEF withdrew the O/T ban for next Saturday, GTR would could build a new timetable. The WTT would not be suitable. That’s assuming enough drivers actually make themselves available for rest day work. Unless I needed the money, I certainly wouldn’t be putting myself in a situation where thousands of people have been drinking heavily and suddenly become unaware of the dangers of the railway.

 

[infobleep]

Eastbourne and Lewes have regular bus services to Brighton.

But I'm not aware of trains to Tunbridge Wells being canned and there are buses from Tunbridge Wells.

This evening I got to Gatwick Airport and hundreds of people were coming off the late running 17:24 to Littlehampton. I've never seen such a train so busy.

This seemed odd as the train got in at 17:28 but due in at 17:33 (2 minutes late) was a Gatwick Express branded Southern branded service.

Surprised some didn't just get this train as they stopped at the same stations.

 

[MikeWM]

Meanwhile there is some issue or other with the OLE between Kings Lynn and Cambridge that has been going on for two days, and now apparently tomorrow too.

The result is an hourly shuttle between KLN and CBG which is severely speed-limited and so taking forever, and a whole two trains an hour - one stopper, one Thameslink semi-fast - between Cambridge and London. As opposed to the six there 'ought' to be.

Another classy job by GN, taking their 50% off 'not on strike' timetable and making it even worse.

Then, away from Brighton, they appear to be running a 'strike' timetable yet again this Saturday, even though nobody is actually on strike. The last train to Kings Lynn leaves Cambridge at 1806, 6 hours earlier than usual. And all morning/afternoon there is a fantastic offering of 2 trains an hour to London from Cambridge, that leave within 3 minutes of each other, followed by a 57 minute gap. At 5pm that drops to one train an hour.

Meanwhile GA and XC appear to be able to manage to run a full service.

*Another* classy job by GN!

 

[dk1]

Meanwhile GA and XC appear to be able to manage to run a full service.

*Another* classy job by GN!

To be fair to GN, GA & XC can/do run on diesel so no need for any cautionary speeds if being advised by Cambridge PSB.

 

[MikeWM]

To be fair to GN, GA & XC can/do run on diesel so no need for any cautionary speeds if being advised by Cambridge PSB.

I was rather ambiguous, but actually I was referring to Saturday's timetable with that full service comment!

Yes, I'm not moaning that GN have to go slow around here while Network Rail work out whatever the problem is with the OLE (though, two days in, all the info we get from GN is that they still seem to be 'investigating', which doesn't reassure). That doesn't explain why they can't run the usual 'fast' service between London and Cambridge though, which they'd already cut from 2tph to 1tph due to the overtime ban, and today was 0tph.

I do note that most/all the GA services have lost 5 minutes or so between Ely and Waterbeach today, whereas the XCs haven't. Does that mean the GAs have been running on electric anyway, even though they don't have to?

 

[JonathanH]

Then, away from Brighton, they appear to be running a 'strike' timetable yet again this Saturday, even though nobody is actually on strike.

No Redhill to Tonbridge this Saturday either. In fact, the service on Saturday is an incredible exercise in not running more than a bare minimum of service between about 0730 and 1830 across the part of the network that is open.

Is this just the overtime ban and a lack of planning resource?

ASLEF really are getting good value from this overtime ban on GTR.

 

[dk1]

I was rather ambiguous, but actually I was referring to Saturday's timetable with that full service comment!

Yes, I'm not moaning that GN have to go slow around here while Network Rail work out whatever the problem is with the OLE (though, two days in, all the info we get from GN is that they still seem to be 'investigating', which doesn't reassure). That doesn't explain why they can't run the usual 'fast' service between London and Cambridge though, which they'd already cut from 2tph to 1tph due to the overtime ban, and today was 0tph.

I do note that most/all the GA services have lost 5 minutes or so between Ely and Waterbeach today, whereas the XCs haven't. Does that mean the GAs have been running on electric anyway, even though they don't have to?

I have always reverted to diesel on 755s if there is any restriction with the OHL. Not been on that route this week however.

 

[infobleep]

Meanwhile there is some issue or other with the OLE between Kings Lynn and Cambridge that has been going on for two days, and now apparently tomorrow too.

The result is an hourly shuttle between KLN and CBG which is severely speed-limited and so taking forever, and a whole two trains an hour - one stopper, one Thameslink semi-fast - between Cambridge and London. As opposed to the six there 'ought' to be.

Another classy job by GN, taking their 50% off 'not on strike' timetable and making it even worse.

Then, away from Brighton, they appear to be running a 'strike' timetable yet again this Saturday, even though nobody is actually on strike. The last train to Kings Lynn leaves Cambridge at 1806, 6 hours earlier than usual. And all morning/afternoon there is a fantastic offering of 2 trains an hour to London from Cambridge, that leave within 3 minutes of each other, followed by a 57 minute gap. At 5pm that drops to one train an hour.

Meanwhile GA and XC appear to be able to manage to run a full service.

*Another* classy job by GN!

I noticed one train from Cambridge was running 1 hour 33 minutes late. It was still showing as problem under investigation this evening when I noticed it whilst looking up train from Gatwick Airport

No Redhill to Tonbridge this Saturday either. In fact, the service on Saturday is an incredible exercise in not running more than a bare minimum of service between about 0730 and 1830 across the part of the network that is open.

Is this just the overtime ban and a lack of planning resource?

ASLEF really are getting good value from this overtime ban on GTR.

I imagine the previous reasons why this is the case still apply. I can't remember exactly what they were so I won't repeat then in case I misquote.

 

[dk1]

Word on the street is that ASLEF are quite concerned about the ‘Optics’ of this for them.

which is unusual, if true, as normally they have no concern about public opinion.

Seems odd that they’d be bothered. Going to upset someone whatever you do. I understand during the mourning for our Queen but that’s about it.

 

[MikeWM]

NR's disruption page still says 'the exact cause is still being investigated', which doesn't instill confidence this issue is going to resolve any time soon.

GN in Twitter are claiming the reason they can't run the 1tph already-reduced 'fast' service between Cambridge and Kings Cross (today and now tomorrow as well) is because 'the trains that would normally run on this route are needed for the Cambridge to Kings Lynn shuttles'. Err, yeah, right. What a load of nonsense.

 

[Magdalen Road]

NR's disruption page still says 'the exact cause is still being investigated', which doesn't instill confidence this issue is going to resolve any time soon.

GN in Twitter are claiming the reason they can't run the 1tph already-reduced 'fast' service between Cambridge and Kings Cross (today and now tomorrow as well) is because 'the trains that would normally run on this route are needed for the Cambridge to Kings Lynn shuttles'. Err, yeah, right. What a load of nonsense.

I was told that a GA train had brought some droppers down going through on Friday. This is day 5 of disruption.
The journey took me 2h12 yesterday morning instead of 1h16 (plus walks to/from stations).

National rail planner was showing people different things, mine trains as cancelled, others as a bulletin. The afternoon “service” was dreadful, gaps of over an hour between services running north, then having to change at Cambridge.
GTR‘s website says it’ll be the same today and on Wednesday.
Does anyone know why it’s taking so long to fix it?
For the first time, I nearly turned round and went home yesterday morning - the stress of not having a clue when you might be at work, or whether you’ll be able to travel home had really got to me.
Thankfully I have managed to work from home today, but that’s another unused day from the annual season ticket.
It is poor value.

 

[Bald Rick]

NR's disruption page still says 'the exact cause is still being investigated', which doesn't instill confidence this issue is going to resolve any time soon.

The problem is known and being resolved

Does anyone know why it’s taking so long to fix it?

It’s a straight choice between closing the line overnight and fixing it over a few nights, with the ability to run some sort of service to the stations concerned, or closing the line completely until it’s fixed.

The work last night fixed everything south of Downham market.

 

[8ace]

I was planning to go Morecambe on Saturday, now got no chance of making the 0753 from EUS or getting back to Brighton after arriving back in London at 2140

 

[JonathanH]

I was planning to go Morecambe on Saturday, now got no chance of making the 0753 from EUS or getting back to Brighton after arriving back in London at 2140

Well, not without finding somewhere between Brighton and Euston to spend a few hours after catching the last train on Friday or earliest train on Sunday.

Last train on Friday night / Saturday morning is seemingly the 0002 from Brighton. First train on Sunday morning is the 0410 from Victoria.

I appreciate it isn't everyone's cup of tea to have such an extended day.

 

[8ace]

Well, not without finding somewhere between Brighton and Euston to spend a few hours after catching the last train on Friday or earliest train on Sunday.

Last train on Friday night / Saturday morning is seemingly the 0002 from Brighton. First train on Sunday morning is the 0410 from Victoria.

I appreciate it isn't everyone's cup of tea to have such an extended day.

It's an idea but don't really fancy that TBH. Going to ring Avanti later and try getting a refund.

 

[Trainguy34]

It's an idea but don't really fancy that TBH. Going to ring Avanti later and try getting a refund.

Good luck with that!

 

[MikeWM]

I was told that a GA train had brought some droppers down going through on Friday. This is day 5 of disruption.

I did see some delays/cancellations on the board at Ely on Saturday, but assumed it was just usual GN Saturday uselessness.

Thankfully I have managed to work from home today, but that’s another unused day from the annual season ticket.
It is poor value.

Between GN's uselessness and the apparent continuing flakiness of the infrastructure, it certainly is It certainly makes me think twice about how wise it is to try to overhead-electrify everywhere, given the number of problems we regularly see between Ely and Kings Lynn.

--

The problem is known and being resolved

I'm glad to hear it, but the disruptions page on NR still says 'The exact cause is being investigated'.

The work last night fixed everything south of Downham market.

No-one appears to have told that to the train I was just on, which crawled between Ely and Waterbeach despite having a clear run. Or has the problem re-occurred?

 

[Minstral25]

Another classy job by GN, taking their 50% off 'not on strike' timetable and making it even worse.

50% off would be great - it's 70% reduced through Redhill - unusable service

 

[infobleep]

The problem is known and being resolved



It’s a straight choice between closing the line overnight and fixing it over a few nights, with the ability to run some sort of service to the stations concerned, or closing the line completely until it’s fixed.

The work last night fixed everything south of Downham market.

If the problem is known then they no longer need to say it is under investigation. Perhaps they are now doing that, now they know what the problem is.

 

[jon0844]

I was told that a GA train had brought some droppers down going through on Friday. This is day 5 of disruption.
The journey took me 2h12 yesterday morning instead of 1h16 (plus walks to/from stations).

National rail planner was showing people different things, mine trains as cancelled, others as a bulletin. The afternoon “service” was dreadful, gaps of over an hour between services running north, then having to change at Cambridge.
GTR‘s website says it’ll be the same today and on Wednesday.
Does anyone know why it’s taking so long to fix it?
For the first time, I nearly turned round and went home yesterday morning - the stress of not having a clue when you might be at work, or whether you’ll be able to travel home had really got to me.
Thankfully I have managed to work from home today, but that’s another unused day from the annual season ticket.
It is poor value.

It wasn't just some droppers, it was a lot. As in 40 or 50 or more, over quite a distance.

 

[Magdalen Road]

It wasn't just some droppers, it was a lot. As in 40 or 50 or more, over quite a distance.

Yes, I got that impression from the staff member who mentioned it. What measures are in place to prevent and mitigate against this type of damage?

 

[richardderby]

Well they are leaving sections of lines unserved as it is. For example one can't travel from Haywards Heath to Eastbourne. It's not desirable to walk from Eastbourne to Brighton either. Perhaps it is from Lewes.

we are all going to take the train from London/ East Croydon to Uckfield on Saturday and the 29 bus is running from there to Brighton 3 times an hour, taking around 50 minutes for two quid. only problem the last train back is at 830pm so I think we will miss Britney Spears

 

[Jan Mayen]

There are three buses an hour from Uckfield to Brighton? Surely a case for reopening if I ever saw one.(Insert sarcastic emoji here)

Anyway, glad you found a way round, hope you enjoy the day

 

[MikeWM]

Well, I'm at the office and I'd quite like to go home, but unfortunately GN's 'not on strike' timetable means that while there were three trains going south and two trains going north from Cambridge North in the space of twelve minutes between 1727 and 1739, there's now *nothing* calling in either direction for the next 53 minutes. (At which point I then again have the choice of two trains going north and two trains going south in the space of 10 minutes...)

Even GA's 1707 Liverpool Street -> Ely, which isn't 'officially' timetabled to stop at CMB but pretty much has done every day since the timetable change anyway, isn't doing so today, the one day when it would be really useful to do so.

No wonder people prefer working from home!

 

[arb]

Even GA's 1707 Liverpool Street -> Ely, which isn't 'officially' timetabled to stop at CMB but pretty much has done every day since the timetable change anyway, isn't doing so today, the one day when it would be really useful to do so.

I don't think it was even running today. It wasn't showing in a journey planner or RealTimeTrains for CBG to ELY either. Nor is it tomorrow.