Southern Timetable Change September 2022

[PGAT]

No, a mix of 8 and 10s.

I believe pre-pandemic LBG-EPS services ran a mixture of 8 and 10s but this is purely based on my experiences.

 

[Minstral25]

No, a mix of 8 and 10s.

Assume the 10's will be 2x 377/6 or 377/7 to enable splitting at Purley.

So where will the 10 car 377/3s be used?

 

[PGAT]

Assume the 10's will be 2x 377/6 or 377/7 to enable splitting at Purley.

So where will the 10 car 377/3s be used?

On the LBG-VIC route I’m assuming and either the LBG-EPS or the VIC-DKG/HRH services

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

Will East Croydon to Watford be back to 8 car

 

[PGAT]

Will East Croydon to Watford be back to 8 car

I asked this earlier on the thread, it will remain 4 cars apparently.

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

I asked this earlier on the thread, it will remain 4 cars apparently.

Cheers

 

[PGAT]

16 coach train at Norwood Junction????

(this isn’t edited look at the southern website)

 

[OliverH68]

16 coach train at Norwood Junction????

(this isn’t edited look at the southern website)

Just an input error from the data feeds.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Just an input error from the data feeds.

The input isn't an error, the original data is

 

[Dhansak]

I see Southern have finally binned the one direct train along the Arun Valley to London Bridge. I should not be surprised given the erosion of the service over the last few years. The one up service is the 05:55 from BOG, arriving at LBG at 07:43. Perfect for many city commuters and the service was well patronised. The service an hour later was scrapped due to Covid.

The return is useless, leaving LBG at just past 17:00 (Southern made sure that the perfectly timed, and very popular, 18:05 was scrapped a couple of years ago). Maybe a 17:00 train would suit GTR office employees, but most in the city don't finish at 17:00 on the nail, and it takes a good 20 minutes to walk to LBG from most parts of the City. It is a classic case of a service being provided that is of no use to the people it is meant for and then getting pulled due to lack of use...

Arun Valley passengers have been treated badly by Southern over the years (for example last train leaving VIC at 22:30 and the decision to split trains at Horsham, thereby increasing journey times and taking away direct Chichester and Portsmouth services) and this is just another example.

Decision has been made, so not a lot that can be done except complain to Southern. Won't do anything sadly.

 

[PGAT]

I see Southern have finally binned the one direct train along the Arun Valley to London Bridge. I should not be surprised given the erosion of the service over the last few years. The one up service is the 05:55 from BOG, arriving at LBG at 07:43. Perfect for many city commuters and the service was well patronised. The service an hour later was scrapped due to Covid.

The return is useless, leaving LBG at just past 17:00 (Southern made sure that the perfectly timed, and very popular, 18:05 was scrapped a couple of years ago). Maybe a 17:00 train would suit GTR office employees, but most in the city don't finish at 17:00 on the nail, and it takes a good 20 minutes to walk to LBG from most parts of the City. It is a classic case of a service being provided that is of no use to the people it is meant for and then getting pulled due to lack of use...

Arun Valley passengers have been treated badly by Southern over the years (for example last train leaving VIC at 22:30 and the decision to split trains at Horsham, thereby increasing journey times and taking away direct Chichester and Portsmouth services) and this is just another example.

Decision has been made, so not a lot that can be done except complain to Southern. Won't do anything sadly.

It’s not just the Arun Valley line, it’s everywhere. Very few routes run 12 coaches off peak anymore, trains to EGR and EBN are 1tph, pretty much none of the metro routes are 4tph and 10 coaches anymore, and the 313s are going in December which just makes everything even worse

 

[Andy1673]

Will East Coastway see any 387s workings? And what are going to be on the peak Brighton to Lewes? Will it be 377 or 313?

 

[PGAT]

Will East Coastway see any 387s workings? And what are going to be on the peak Brighton to Lewes? Will it be 377 or 313?

I don’t live on the ECL so I can’t provide specific services that have 387s. But since Gatwick Express is back in service it seems that the workings will be pretty sparse

 

[Surreytraveller]

E

I see Southern have finally binned the one direct train along the Arun Valley to London Bridge. I should not be surprised given the erosion of the service over the last few years. The one up service is the 05:55 from BOG, arriving at LBG at 07:43. Perfect for many city commuters and the service was well patronised. The service an hour later was scrapped due to Covid.

The return is useless, leaving LBG at just past 17:00 (Southern made sure that the perfectly timed, and very popular, 18:05 was scrapped a couple of years ago). Maybe a 17:00 train would suit GTR office employees, but most in the city don't finish at 17:00 on the nail, and it takes a good 20 minutes to walk to LBG from most parts of the City. It is a classic case of a service being provided that is of no use to the people it is meant for and then getting pulled due to lack of use...

Arun Valley passengers have been treated badly by Southern over the years (for example last train leaving VIC at 22:30 and the decision to split trains at Horsham, thereby increasing journey times and taking away direct Chichester and Portsmouth services) and this is just another example.

Decision has been made, so not a lot that can be done except complain to Southern. Won't do anything sadly.

Eastbourne's was binned ages ago. Saves keeping up route knowledge to London Bridge

 

[PGAT]

E
Eastbourne's was binned ages ago. Saves keeping up route knowledge to London Bridge

There’s 11tph non-stop trains from LBG-ECR so it isn’t a big deal.

 

[Tomp94]

I see Southern have finally binned the one direct train along the Arun Valley to London Bridge. I should not be surprised given the erosion of the service over the last few years. The one up service is the 05:55 from BOG, arriving at LBG at 07:43. Perfect for many city commuters and the service was well patronised. The service an hour later was scrapped due to Covid.

The return is useless, leaving LBG at just past 17:00 (Southern made sure that the perfectly timed, and very popular, 18:05 was scrapped a couple of years ago). Maybe a 17:00 train would suit GTR office employees, but most in the city don't finish at 17:00 on the nail, and it takes a good 20 minutes to walk to LBG from most parts of the City. It is a classic case of a service being provided that is of no use to the people it is meant for and then getting pulled due to lack of use...

Arun Valley passengers have been treated badly by Southern over the years (for example last train leaving VIC at 22:30 and the decision to split trains at Horsham, thereby increasing journey times and taking away direct Chichester and Portsmouth services) and this is just another example.

Decision has been made, so not a lot that can be done except complain to Southern. Won't do anything sadly.

I was on a BOG-LBG service yesterday afternoon! Seems most go to Victoria, by mine went to London Bridge!

 

[MCR247]

I was on a BOG-LBG service yesterday afternoon! Seems most go to Victoria, by mine went to London Bridge!

You’ll have been on the inbound working for the PM peak service

 

[Dhansak]

Yes, my bad. There is a mid afternoon service which seemingly serves no purpose other than to provide the stock for the 17xx departure from LBG.

 

[cle]

Yes, my bad. There is a mid afternoon service which seemingly serves no purpose other than to provide the stock for the 17xx departure from LBG.

I was on a BOG-LBG service yesterday afternoon! Seems most go to Victoria, by mine went to London Bridge!

It served this poster ok. No purpose for you maybe.

 

[jojoseph72]

It’s not just the Arun Valley line, it’s everywhere. Very few routes run 12 coaches off peak anymore, trains to EGR and EBN are 1tph, pretty much none of the metro routes are 4tph and 10 coaches anymore, and the 313s are going in December which just makes everything even worse

Thought 313s were staying beyond December. Guard training still taking place on them and read on here that that SN will keep until the lease expire which was until sometime next year I think.
Correct me if I’m wrong though

 

[PGAT]

Thought 313s were staying beyond December. Guard training still taking place on them and read on here that that SN will keep until the lease expire which was until sometime next year I think.
Correct me if I’m wrong though

From what I’ve seen on the forums the general consensus seems to be that they’re going in December, which does make some sense as the timetable is already out on RTT

 

[prod_pep]

From what I’ve seen on the forums the general consensus seems to be that they’re going in December, which does make some sense as the timetable is already out on RTT

They're staying beyond December, according to sources I consider reliable on another forum. Not sure on their planned withdrawal date now; October 2023 was mentioned but possibly earlier.

 

[Jturner98]

Sorry if it’s been covered elsewhere but is there any reason why the London Bridge- East Croydon service will be axed and the London Bridge- London Victoria service re-introduced?

 

[PGAT]

Sorry if it’s been covered elsewhere but is there any reason why the London Bridge- East Croydon service will be axed and the London Bridge- London Victoria service re-introduced?

Well it benefits far more stations than the LBG-ECR does but in my opinion it just feels like one step forward and one step backwards.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Well it benefits far more stations than the LBG-ECR does but in my opinion it just feels like one step forward and one step backwards.

Well yes, as pre COVID we got both!

 

[LA50041]

They're staying beyond December, according to sources I consider reliable on another forum. Not sure on their planned withdrawal date now; October 2023 was mentioned but possibly earlier.

Internal briefing we were given this week says the DfT have authorised keeping the 313's until May 2023

 

[JonathanH]

Internal briefing we were given this week says the DfT have authorised keeping the 313's until May 2023

That is presumably admission that the 377/5s aren't available until then and that DfT don't think some further lopping of formations is possible. Also that no other replacement fleet is immediately available.

That said, there were many spare seats from East Croydon on the 12-car 0734 service to Victoria (0706 Reigate / 0651 Gatwick Airport) yesterday morning so I suspect there is some more lopping that could be done of peak formations on the outer peak services if numbers don't pick up.

 

[Surreytraveller]

There’s 11tph non-stop trains from LBG-ECR so it isn’t a big deal.

Indeed.

That is presumably admission that the 377/5s aren't available until then and that DfT don't think some further lopping of formations is possible. Also that no other replacement fleet is immediately available.

That said, there were many spare seats from East Croydon on the 12-car 0734 service to Victoria (0706 Reigate / 0651 Gatwick Airport) yesterday morning so I suspect there is some more lopping that could be done of peak formations on the outer peak services if numbers don't pick up.

Its the summer holidays, so trains aren't as busy as they might be next week or the week after

 

[bramling]

That is presumably admission that the 377/5s aren't available until then and that DfT don't think some further lopping of formations is possible. Also that no other replacement fleet is immediately available.

That said, there were many spare seats from East Croydon on the 12-car 0734 service to Victoria (0706 Reigate / 0651 Gatwick Airport) yesterday morning so I suspect there is some more lopping that could be done of peak formations on the outer peak services if numbers don't pick up.

A bit dubious making decisions based on August loadings, though. There’s likely to be an uplift in numbers once September comes.

 

[Southern Dvr]

A bit dubious making decisions based on August loadings, though. There’s likely to be an uplift in numbers once September comes.

Not when they see the timetable there won’t!