SPAD Procedure

[Flamingo]

I once worked a train which had a SPAD (by about ten foot, I believe). There was poor rail conditions and we slid past the signal.

What I remember most about it was seeing the driver when we (eventually) reached the next station. The poor sod was the most miserable looking individual I have ever seen. His world had collapsed. (Obviously we were terminated). Even if he had been given clearence to continue, there was no way he would have been up to it.

 

[LAX54]

There's a clip on youtube that shows a Voyager having a signal go red in front of it without it having a chance to stop. Would the signaller and the driver's manager and/or control have treated it as a category A until proven otherwise? In the case of the clip, iirc it was something to do with a trackside gang caused the signal to go red, might have been a cable accidentally hit. Once the signaller had confirmed that to be the case would it then have been treated as a category B?

If it is at green, then goes back to red, then it is not the driver's fault, and will not be Cat A, as there is not much he can do, except stop as soon as he can, it will either be treated as a defective signal, or possible Signaller error, of course if the siggie sees a track blip he will know why its gone red, but not why the track blipped !
Signaller will explain the circumstances to the driver, ask if he is OK, and Ok to continue and then carry on, the main times a driver can be really shaken is at a signal protecting a junction or a level crossing.

there will be the required paperwork to be completed of course ! There are a multitude of reasons a signal may revert to red and passed, but a CAT A SPAD as a whole, is quite rare these days
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So you are now changing the goal posts. The above does not constitute the signaller making the decision to take the driver off. You can call it splitting hairs all you like.
(My Bold)

Correct the Signaller does not make the decision, that is the TOC Control / DSM
however we can and do relay to control that the driver has said he is very shaken, or we can hear in his voice that he is shaken up, and that it maybe a good idea if he is met (assuming he is prepared to carry on) en route by a Manager to make sure he is OK.
If Control says they are OK for the Driver to go, and the Driver says he will go forward, then as far as the Signaller is concerned then, that's that.

 

[Sunset route]

In the SPAR situation. I've barely heard the Signaller miss a word. "Sorry about the Driver, it was X, Have you passed the Signal ?, are you Ok to continue ? Where is control involved in that decision ? The Signaller doesn't contact our TOC control and wait for a decision if the Driver can or cannot continue. Even when you have passed it the Signaller just lets you toddle off like nothing happened as you still get the "are you ok to continue ?"

Control tend to get notified after the event, if it's signaller error then we have to report ourselves to the SSMs to go on the log and they will notify control. Or if the techs touch something they shouldn't or at the wrong time then we have to report them via SSMs and Control. If it's equipment failure again it will go on the SSMs log and reported to fault control, but as I've said this all happens after checking the driver is OK to continue and then sending them on their way.

A TPWS intervention is 3188 checking the driver is ok and send on their way. Sometimes if the driver is at risk control will stop the train further along, where the driver will met and replaced.

A proper cat A SPAD is 3189, report to control and wait for advise before moving the train to a place for the relieving diver to meet it.

I've only recommend once to control that a driver needs to be replaced recently, even though they said they were OK to continue and that was after a near miss and you could tell the driver was very shaken up by their voice.

Our main TOC operates a very different rule book to the one that signallers use, I think it's a mixture of the master rule and their equivalent of SBIs Special Box Instruction. As signallers should know our SBIs can authorise us to do all sorts of things locally that be be contrary to the rulebook.

 

[superkev]

I believe that 2 SPADs in 12 months will end a driver's career with any TOC for ever. No wonder many driver's are so causious.
K

 

[QueensCurve]

Is it possible in this day and age for a driver on the mainline to cover a spad up?

Presumably a track circuit or an axle counter would be triggered and logged by the system?

 

[Sunset route]

Presumably a track circuit or an axle counter would be triggered and logged by the system?

In this day in age if it has an electronic output from train decribers, train detection, point detection and all voice coms radio and fixed land line then it's on a data logger somewhere. Even our button pushes and pulls are recorded.

S&T out doing points gauging will normally trigger a phone from the "points police" (remote condition monitoring) saying that they have an alarm on a set of points, which will be the set of points the S&T are working on.

 

[QueensCurve]

S&T out doing points gauging will normally trigger a phone from the "points police" (remote condition monitoring) saying that they have an alarm on a set of points, which will be the set of points the S&T are working on.

Presumably this prevents a replay of Potters Bar.

 

[Tomnick]

Presumably this prevents a replay of Potters Bar.

No. It's intended to reduce the number of points failures (and the resulting disruption) by monitoring them in normal operation so that any developing issues can be identified before they become job-stopping, e.g. measuring exactly how long they're taking to go from normal to reverse and vice-versa, where a gradual slowdown might indicate the first hints of a problem.

Our main TOC operates a very different rule book to the one that signallers use, I think it's a mixture of the master rule and their equivalent of SBIs Special Box Instruction. As signallers should know our SBIs can authorise us to do all sorts of things locally that be be contrary to the rulebook.

Very worrying indeed, if true. Presumably the "rule book" that you're referring to is the "company instructions", the equivalent to Network Rail's "National Operating Instructions" that came about when a load of stuff was shifted from the Rule Book to become company-specific? I've worked to both the NOIs and a TOC's company instructions, and it just makes everything more confusing than it needs to be, in my view.

None of the above (SBSIs, the NOIs or TOC-specific documents) should ever contradict the Rule Book though. Normally they authorise something that the Rule Book doesn't specifically prohibit or is given as "except where specially authorised" or similar, or give location-specific clarification or amplification of a particular Rule Book item. It could be very, very bad indeed if a Driver did something that his own company instructions authorised him to do that the Signalman thought (according to the Rule Book) wasn't allowed.

 

[Sunset route]

None of the above (SBSIs, the NOIs or TOC-specific documents) should ever contradict the Rule Book though. Normally they authorise something that the Rule Book doesn't specifically prohibit or is given as "except where specially authorised" or similar, or give location-specific clarification or amplification of a particular Rule Book item. It could be very, very bad indeed if a Driver did something that his own company instructions authorised him to do that the Signalman thought (according to the Rule Book) wasn't allowed.

The rulebook definition of a distant signal,

Distant signal
A distant signal is a signal which cannot show a stop aspect or indication.
Some colour light distant signals are identified by a white triangle or the letters ‘R’ or ‘RR’ on the signal identification plate.

Unless you have distant signals listed as distant signals with the White triangle but are called non approachable when red.

Which is good until you a total signal failure and you have to go bang road against the direction of flow arrows to get train or trains trapped back out again. Then you have to explain to a driver that in the next signal section your going to come across a distant signal that is plated as diastnt signal but it will be showing a red, SPAD trap or what.

 

[carriageline]

We have instructions that allow us 2 pass 2 signals at danger at once!


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[ScouserGirl]

This is something I've wondered for a while. What is the correct procedure to follow after a SPAD? Does the train continue to its final destination or will it be terminated at the next station?

It depends on the circumstances and the train operator.

 

[pompeyfan]

We have instructions that allow us 2 pass 2 signals at danger at once!


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Emergency special working? Or temporary block working?

Both are pretty much the same with the exception that temporary block working involves a hand signaller, ESW the driver rings the box directly.

 

[physics34]

Is it possible in this day and age for a driver on the mainline to cover a spad up?

If the driver SPADs but stops before entering the next track circuit then yes, and the signal is not fitted with TPWS.

Some signals have an overlap (the space between a signal and the start of its associated track circuit.)
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I believe that 2 SPADs in 12 months will end a driver's career with any TOC for ever. No wonder many driver's are so causious.
K

i dont think this is written in stone. I know a driver who had 3 in 18 months. He no longer drives.

 

[carriageline]

Edit please delete

 

[Muttley]

I believe that 2 SPADs in 12 months will end a driver's career with any TOC for ever. No wonder many driver's are so causious.
K

It only took one to end Michael Hodder's career.

 

[physics34]

It only took one to end Michael Hodder's career.

poor sod.

 

[QueensCurve]

We have instructions that allow us 2 pass 2 signals at danger at once!

That doesn''t sound good from a human factors point of view.

A slightly different situation, but the Report on the Collision that occurred on 2nd July 1976 at Gilbert's Cutting on the Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway found that the collision happened after the driver assumed he as being authorised through 2 sections when in fact he was authorised from 1. The recommendation was to discontinue the practice of authorising trains through 2 sections.

 

[Sunset route]

We have instructions that allow us 2 pass 2 signals at danger at once!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See below
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That doesn''t sound good from a human factors point of view.

Maybe simular to us, where we have signals mid tunnel and in one case multiple signals in a tunnel, we are allowed to tell drivers to disregard all signals in the tunnels regardless of aspect in failure conditions by our SBIs, thus creating one long block section through the tunnel.

 

[mrbluelips]

I remember witnessing a SPAD once at Deansgate railway station around 2005.

Just after the train pulled into the station there was a PA announcement for the driver to "contact the box". The driver used the phone by the signal. When he had finished the call he advised the conductor that he was authorised to pass the red signal and continue to Oxford Road station a few yards up the line. Apparently the signal was red and couldn't be changed because there was another train at the platform and there was no shunting signal, but still room for the train to enter.

It made me wonder if the call was recorded. Because if something disastrous were to happen, it could end up the drivers word against the signaler.

 

[Flamingo]

All calls to signallers or Control are recorded. They can be used in evidence!

 

[GB]

I remember witnessing a SPAD once at Deansgate railway station around 2005.

Just after the train pulled into the station there was a PA announcement for the driver to "contact the box". The driver used the phone by the signal. When he had finished the call he advised the conductor that he was authorised to pass the red signal and continue to Oxford Road station a few yards up the line. Apparently the signal was red and couldn't be changed because there was another train at the platform and there was no shunting signal, but still room for the train to enter.

It made me wonder if the call was recorded. Because if something disastrous were to happen, it could end up the drivers word against the signaler.

Strictly speaking, neither under current or previous terminology, would that be regarded as a spad.

As Flamingo states, all calls to the signaller are recorded.