Speculation on alternative traction covering the grounding of Class 80x fleet

[Bletchleyite]

Introduces a lot of operational complexity at Reading; although it was a suggestion that was seriously raised by the control team over the weekend; as was hiring Turbos (and drivers, as ours won’t touch them) from Chiltern for LTV work.

Are the cabs different from GWR's units?

 

[Failed Unit]

What is the current status of the open access operators trains? (First East Coast)

 

[RobShipway]

What is the current status of the open access operators trains? (First East Coast)

First east Coast Units are still being built at the moment. I believe that finishing touches are being made to 803001 which I have seen from videos on Youtube on the channel WaverleyJohn

 

[Failed Unit]

First east Coast Units are still being built at the moment. I believe that finishing touches are being made to 803001 which I have seen from videos on Youtube on the channel WaverleyJohn.

Thanks. So we will be waiting a little for them. (Although they are battery if I recall so Maybe no use on GWR)

 

[A0]

Well, if Chiltern Turbos are brought in, then they can certainly be stored in sidings in Banbury. Depending on the number of Chiltern Turbos I would have them doing the following routes:

Banbury - Didcot
Twyford - Henley on Thames
Maidenhead - Bourne end/Marlow
Slough to Windsor

The GWR class 165's that are freed up, can then do services from either from Reading or Newbury down the Hants & Berks route.

With regards to using the class 345, I would leave them on the stopping trains. But if the TFL staff on the class 345's have route knowledge with going onwards to Didcot Parkway then certainly would consider using those to Didcot Parkway on the slow lines, that way I would keep the class 387's on the fast lines doing the London - Reading - Didcot - Swindon services.

I would have thought RRBs for the branches would make the most sense.

Windsor has an alternative rail link so ticket acceptance on SWR should be straightforward - and there are no intermediate stations between Slough & Windsor.

Maidenhead - Marlow, I'd RRB and extend to High Wycombe with ticket acceptance on Chiltern.

Far better to put all the units on the mainline to strengthen services to Reading / Didcot / Oxford etc.

 

[JN114]

Are the cabs different from GWR's units?

A bit.

The difference is more around the various systems installed on the Chiltern units - Tripcocks and CH-ATP in particular, which the driver would have to know how to safely/correctly deal with if they activated spuriously - than particularly different controls. What should a driver do when they have a tripcock activation on the Greenford Branch, what actions need to be taken if the ATP dumps the brake and shows up an E01 fault - and so on.

Controls-wise, The direction switch on a Chiltern set is rotary as on a 168/170/171/172 not fore and aft as on a GW 16x, and the layout and form of the fault diagnosis and isolation panel is very different. Nothing too drastic but still may cause some consternation.

The idea for Chiltern units was Oxford - Banburys and Greenfords, to free up two GW sets and allow hourly Cotswolds (3 diagrams).

 

[RobShipway]

A bit.

The difference is more around the various systems installed on the Chiltern units - Tripcocks and CH-ATP in particular, which the driver would have to know how to safely/correctly deal with if they activated spuriously - than particularly different controls. What should a driver do when they have a tripcock activation on the Greenford Branch, what actions need to be taken if the ATP dumps the brake and shows up an E01 fault - and so on.

Controls-wise, The direction switch on a Chiltern set is rotary as on a 168/170/171/172 not fore and aft as on a GW 16x, and the layout and form of the fault diagnosis and isolation panel is very different. Nothing too drastic but still may cause some consternation.

The idea for Chiltern units was Oxford - Banburys and Greenfords, to free up two GW sets and allow hourly Cotswolds (3 diagrams).

I guess the changeover of signal systems at Oxford may prevent it, but can the Chilterns not do Banbury to Didcot Parkway, which would free up at least a GWR class 165 set?

In the past Chiltern have had their class 165's going into London Paddington from the Greenford branch. Can this not be done again now or have the Chiltern drivers lost the route knowledge?

 

[pompeyfan]

There was rumours and chunterings of SWR doing Reading-Basingstoke with 159s that are spare due to the rescued T/T to free up some extra Turbos, but lack of senior drivers at Basingstoke had apparently put the stop to it.

 

[JN114]

I guess the changeover of signal systems at Oxford may prevent it, but can the Chilterns not do Banbury to Didcot Parkway, which would free up at least a GWR class 165 set?

The issue wouldn’t be signalling systems it would be driver route / traction knowledge

Chiltern know 165/0s
GWR know Oxford to Didcot
Nobody has both

As was said in the post you quoted. IF we got Chiltern units and drivers to help out, it would be on Oxford - Banbury and Greenfords to free up 2 units.

 

[RobShipway]

The issue wouldn’t be signalling systems it would be driver route / traction knowledge

Chiltern know 165/0s
GWR know Oxford to Didcot
Nobody has both

As was said in the post you quoted. IF we got Chiltern units and drivers to help out, it would be on Oxford - Banbury and Greenfords to free up 2 units.

Okay, thanks.

There was rumours and chunterings of SWR doing Reading-Basingstoke with 159s that are spare due to the rescued T/T to free up some extra Turbos, but lack of senior drivers at Basingstoke had apparently put the stop to it.

I would have thought, if they have any spare Voyagers & Drivers with route knowledge that XC could do Reading - Basingstoke.

The class 387's from C2C will arrive at 1:30pm according to https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/25235/2021-05-12/detailed

 

[pompeyfan]

Okay, thanks.


I would have thought, if they have any spare Voyagers & Drivers with route knowledge that XC could do Reading - Basingstoke.

the issue with that is that Voyagers don’t have SDO and I believe all the platforms are around the 80m mark.

 

[RobShipway]

Class 387 units from C2C arriving in Reading about 1:30pm according to https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/25235/2021-05-12/detailed

 

[RobShipway]

the issue with that is that Voyagers don’t have SDO and I believe all the platforms are around the 80m mark.

True.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks. So we will be waiting a little for them. (Although they are battery if I recall so Maybe no use on GWR)

They don‘t have traction batteries, your recollections likely predate an error made in one of the rail magazines. It was eventually confirmed they only have battery support of domestic services.

 

[stevetay3]

C to C. 387 units passing Taplow now at 13.01

 

[FGW_DID]

5Q74 Wembley - Reading TCD

57306 + 387301 + 387306 +387302

Just arrived at Reading TCD.

 

[chris11256]

I wonder why c2c split them, they usually keep them in odd & even sets.

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder why c2c split them, they usually keep them in odd & even sets.

Are those three likely to be the ones with the lowest mileage or furthest from exams? They are potentially about to do much more daily mileage than they do on c2c.

 

[Westerndiesels]

I know for various reasons such as training, maintenance , route knowledge, siding capacity etc that this could never happen.

But in an alternative universe just imagine all the mk1 and 2 rolling stock and heritage diesels all coming out like the Dunkirk boats to save the day.

I would take my summer holidays now

 

[reddragon]

Have the C2C 387s arrived yet?

 

[popeter45]

Have the C2C 387s arrived yet?

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seems so

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Have the C2C 387s arrived yet?

I saw them at Wembley Yard this morning, so either they are still there or have arrived at Reading. Presumably they have arrived at Reading.

 

[Siemens Staines]

387302 & 387306 were visible on Reading TCD this evening

 

[FGW_DID]

Have the C2C 387s arrived yet?

Yes, arrived on depot about half one. Just as I was leaving this afternoon 387301 was dropping into the train shed.

 

[Max]

Interesting to see this in the Telegraph tonight, though not sure how reliable their source is?

British Rail-era InterCity 125 trains to return after mass cancellations

Rail bosses are poised to bring back InterCity 125 carriages from the 1980s to limit the fallout from mass cancellations after faulty Hitachi trains were taken out of service.

Great Western Railway is considering bringing in additional British Rail-era carriages as part of emergency measures to keep passengers moving.

Other operators are supporting GWR, which runs express services between London, Wales and the west and has been hardest hit by the crisis.

 

[Horizon22]

Have the C2C 387s arrived yet?

Yes they are sitting in the depot at Reading. I think they'll be replacing one of the Swindon shuttles as currently GWR are nicking usual 387s to allow this to run 3 diagrams which is causing some rather significant short-forms at key times (4v12 for instance).

 

[Snow1964]

Yes they are sitting in the depot at Reading. I think they'll be replacing one of the Swindon shuttles as currently GWR are nicking usual 387s to allow this to run 3 diagrams which is causing some rather significant short-forms at key times (4v12 for instance).

Don’t want this to sound like a stupid question, but if they are not ATP fitted, can one of these be used in middle of 12car formation flanked by GWR units. I am guessing they have standard couplers

 

[Horizon22]

Don’t want this to sound like a stupid question, but if they are not ATP fitted, can one of these be used in middle of 12car formation flanked by GWR units. I am guessing they have standard couplers

The latest I've heard is that it is undergoing "tweaks" at Reading TCD tonight and won't be ready for service tomorrow because of some compatibility issues, but nothing major. But that is I believe feasible, although someone with more technical knowledge will no doubt correct me if wrong! Either way it relieves the usual 387 services which are getting a little too cosy at times.

 

[cactustwirly]

Don’t want this to sound like a stupid question, but if they are not ATP fitted, can one of these be used in middle of 12car formation flanked by GWR units. I am guessing they have standard couplers

None of the 387s are ATP fitted

 

[43096]

The latest I've heard is that it is undergoing "tweaks" at Reading TCD tonight and won't be ready for service tomorrow because of some compatibility issues, but nothing major. But that is I believe feasible, although someone with more technical knowledge will no doubt correct me if wrong! Either way it relieves the usual 387 services which are getting a little too cosy at times.

Reported elsewhere that the c2c sets need a software update (at least the PIS would need altering) and pantograph heads changing.