I've just had a look on their website and they are all there again.
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SPT Tendered Routes
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ARG Travel are operating the 59 and 190. Hobson Travel will run the 189. All of these have reduced timetables, 59 is during the day only now and has an hour's lunch break so presumably this moves onto the 190 later.
www.firstbus.co.uk
https://www.spt.co.uk/travel-with-spt/bus/bus-timetables/ Revised timetables available here.
Forthcoming Timetables & Service Information
From Sunday 5th February, a selection of changes will be in place across our network. These changes will allow us to offer a more consistent service across the city for our customers. Designed to release driver resource, to allow us to help improve reliability and performance, we are continuing...
https://www.spt.co.uk/travel-with-spt/bus/bus-timetables/ Revised timetables available here.
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Looks like it if it was the only way to get an operator in place for now, same with the 59 losing the evening service.
Maybe these will be temporary until July to try and get the services restored to what they were before.
I'm not really surprised with the changes to the 59, 189 and 190 to be honest. I'd expect more SPT tenders to end up like this because of the driver situation. On a plus point though away from the services being handed back by First, the 142 changes on the 27th actually mean Glendale in Robroyston will get a bus during the day again which they haven't had since First axed the X2 due to covid.
markymark2000
On Moderation
To be fair, it's about time someone stopped SPT wasting money on fantasy bus routes. So many tenders running around empty or on nonsensical routes.
I fully agree with you. There are definitely a lot of them that could have been gone years ago. Someone at SPT needs to be blunt with the public and tell them that resources are tight so use these services or you will lose them very quickly.
markymark2000
On Moderation
Someone needs to tell SPT to stop wasting money on fresh air routes which generally overcomplicate the bus network giving 3 completely different networks for passengers Mon-Sat daytime, Mon-Sat Evening & Sunday.
If SPT didn't waste resources on silly little routes, they'd have a lot more to put onto the routes which people use. I don't think it's all about the public not travelling but more SPT put in routes and expect people to travel on whatever concoction of a network they create rather than working with local people to understand their needs. You only have to look at the amount of areas which have an evening or sunday service but no daytime core. Or even areas which have services which are 99% duplicated by other routes with the same or similar journey opportunities.
The thing for me is not being able to use all tickets on them when you have different operators on the different parts of the timetable. If you allow all tickets to be used on them then you'll get more people using them to be honest.
The ideal situation would be adding extensions or slight diversions to routes that operators already cover with a bit of funding so that you don't need loads of extra drivers to cover these routes especially in the current climate.
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computerSaysNo
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I agree with the routes being too complicated. I think duplication of route numbers is an issue in the Glasgow area as well. Offhand, there's a First 64, and a subsidised 164 and 264; I know in some places they use the format x64 where x is a number showing a variation of the core route but in this case I think the 164 and 264 take a completely different route? And on the old First Glasgow network map there were multiple route 64s from multiple operators on top of the 164 and 264.
The problem with the 264 is that the numbering actually is logical as it covers Mcgills 64. The issue only comes when you know that the 164 and 364 fit in with First's 64 while also being aware of the 264. I'd imagine most people that use the 264 probably aren't aware of the 164 and 364 unless they've discovered it with Mcgills covering all of them so seeing them on their timetable page.
The only way it can be fixed is a full number overhaul so that companies can't use the same numbers and a special dedicated numbering system for SPT tenders that operators can't use. The only issue with that though is that as there are so many operators, we would get into the 1000s very quickly.
computerSaysNo
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Why do they need their own numbers anyway (for commercial routes with a small number of subsidised journeys)? Why can't they all run as e.g. 64? And stick "This journey is subsidised by SPT" as a subtitle on the destination blind when needed?
I think that works when it's the same operator but I'd imagine it might cause a bit of confusion if it's different operators.
markymark2000
On Moderation
The original aim was different route numbers to show what SPT were subsidising. Proving what they are subsidising so that they get public support. I agree with you though, it would be much better to have it on destinations instead or 'SPT' noted on top of trips (where SPT part fund routes) or in big on the timetable page (where SPT fund the majority of the service). I am sure that is one of the contract stipulations for some councils, on all timetables provided by the council and bus operators, it must be noted which services are funded.
SPT does seem to have gotten better at this but progress is slow.
Best one for me is in Johnstone. Key Coaches run route 4 commercially. McGills funded evening service is numbered 307. Exact same route. Completely unrelated route number. Who sits there and thinks that the 307 is the evening service for route 4?
You mean like what happens in the rest of the UK? 95% of the UK uses the same route numbers for all journeys whether subsidised or commercial.
Stan Drews
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Both McGill’s and First generally indicate in their publicity where some journeys are supported by SPT.
This example of the McGill’s X7 shows which parts are funded by SPT.
Similarly, here’s First’s 8 showing the SPT funded 8A journeys.
I’d agree that they do have a love of random service numbers, or ones that had some relevance 30-40 years ago.
markymark2000
On Moderation
They do but not all firms do and if they do, it's not obvious. JMB for example, most of their services, the only way to know it's an SPT service is if you get the PDF timetable. The normal service page doesn't suggest anything. McGills on the other hand, have all fully tendered routes on their website in orange for SPT and commercial routes in blue.
Stan Drews
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I suspect many users (and potential users) have no idea what an SPT journey/service actually means!
markymark2000
On Moderation
In which case, it makes no difference if there is any mention of it or not. I think from an council/PTEs perspective, people say 'The authority does nothing', they can prove which services they are funding. Also bus operators often say 'that journey is funded by the council, please speak to them with any comments' so this can help to differentiate funded and commercial services.
I agree though, for 90% of the public, it makes no difference. It's just councils/PTEs self promotion to say that they are funding routes. Think of it similar to councils putting their logo on planters for example. Makes no difference to the planter, just them proving where their money is going and trying to show they are doing public good.
I fully agree with this. Most people I've experienced just see them as if they're commercial services and then moan about them being "axed" when in reality it's just another company that's taken the service over.
Is the distinction between service numbers for commercial and tendered journeys possibly just an administrative convenience so that passenger numbers/ticket revenue/concessionary travel use is accounted for separately to enable (for example) the performance of the tendered bits to be monitored and not be "lost" within the commercial service stats?
markymark2000
On Moderation
Again, how does the rest of the UK cope given it's basically only SPT who engage in such a silly way of working.
erskinebus
Member
I had assumed that SPT had in the past used 3XX for their routes? 300, 301, 307, 320, 374, 395, 398 etc are in use or have been used in the past on at least partially subsidised routes
Does anyone know how long SPT have provided funding for Western Buses to operate the X36 between Ardrossan and Glasgow?
I feel that a 17.15 last departure from Glasgow is way too early to be either useful or attractive to passengers.
Meanwhile SPT fund a service 25A/B between Beith and some obscure new build estate in Irvine called Montgomery Park. Utterly ridiculous as a decent connection between Glasgow and the Garnock Valley is more likely to be used than running empty double deckers to Irvine filled with fresh air.
SPT really knows how to get things so wrong. It wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't taxpayer's money they were squandering!
I feel that a 17.15 last departure from Glasgow is way too early to be either useful or attractive to passengers.
Meanwhile SPT fund a service 25A/B between Beith and some obscure new build estate in Irvine called Montgomery Park. Utterly ridiculous as a decent connection between Glasgow and the Garnock Valley is more likely to be used than running empty double deckers to Irvine filled with fresh air.
SPT really knows how to get things so wrong. It wouldn't be as bad if it wasn't taxpayer's money they were squandering!
overthewater
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SPT keeps on claiming to be the poorest PTE area in the UK, however I think we can all agree why that is the case. I think they need to spilt up SPT in two and maybe have a proper review of every single route.
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Stan Drews
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The X36 is a fully commercial service.
SPT just support one very early Sunday morning X36A journey between Ardrossan and Beith
Route Service X36A: From Ardrossan via Princes Street, Arran Place, South Crescent Road, Manse Street, Vernon Street, Kyleshill, Canal Street, Saltcoats Road, Boglemart Street, Townhead Street, Kilwinning Road, A738, Stevenston Road, Townhead, Byres Road, Kilwinning Road, Townend Street, Dalry Cross, Roche Way, North Street, Braehead, B780, Dalry Road, Kirkland Road, Main Road Glengarnock, Beith Road, B777, Dalry Road, to Beith Eglinton Street.
Sunday
Ardrossan Princes Street 0545
Saltcoats Railway Station 0550
Stevenston Cross 0555
Kilwinning, Dalry Road 0603
Dalry, Roche Way 0611
Kilbirnie, Garden City 0618
Beith Strand 0628
In all honesty, I don't really see much problem with SPT subsidising the off-peak service of the daytime 25 route between towns of Beith, Glengarnock, Kilbirnie, Dalry and Irvine on evenings and Sundays. Going to Montgomrie Park, might be a little strange, but it replaces the Shuttle Buses service at that time. Of all the subsidised routes, it seems an important connection between fairly large places that largely duplicates a daytime commercial route and I don't exactly see that as squandering or ridiculous.
The X36 service isn't great now, but at least there is a rail connection to Glengarnock and Dalry which is probably why SPT don't want to use additional funds.
The bus stop flag updated at the Jamaica Street stop has "Coakley" for 59, Am I right that ARG is a related operation?ARG Travel are operating the 59 and 190. Hobson Travel will run the 189. All of these have reduced timetables, 59 is during the day only now and has an hour's lunch break so presumably this moves onto the 190 later.
oForthcoming Timetables & Service Information
From Sunday 5th February, a selection of changes will be in place across our network. These changes will allow us to offer a more consistent service across the city for our customers. Designed to release driver resource, to allow us to help improve reliability and performance, we are continuing...
https://www.spt.co.uk/travel-with-spt/bus/bus-timetables/ Revised timetables available here.
jazza374
Member
Correct. ARG Travel is the reinvention of Coakley
The 222 service passes to United Coaches at the end of the month, this service in particular seems to gets passed around from one operator to the next due to temporary contracts in place.
Latest information regarding contract changes including those changing in July.
