Latest Operations Commitee page is up but as mentioned above doesn't mention emergency tenders although it does mention other contracts due to be renewed for July of this year.
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SPT Tendered Routes
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I do find it particularly interesting that driver resource is cited for First but not Mcgills who are also clearly struggling with the amount of cancellations on a daily basis. I'd like to hope the next 5-6 months see more drivers entering the industry than leaving so SPT tenders aren't under threat but it's an ever-changing situation.
Trnsprt4Sctlnd
Member
Not enough had changed over the last 12 months for there to be any good reason the problems will ever change.
First have not done enough to protect what services can be operated including those contractually obligated routes they bid for, recently it was discussed elsewhere that the likes of the X8 or 1C could be removed and other commercial routes altered to compensate which would have alleviated some of the problems with drivers numbers regarding operating SPT Tenders.
I do believe that some tenders could possibly be withdrawn if First were simply paid to alter the direction of some of there own commercial routes to cover withdrawn SPT funded ones.
To be fair to First, it seems to be just Caledonia that's pretty bad compared to the rest of their depots. Scotstoun doesn't seem to be too bad as is Blantyre and Dumbarton and Overtown are completely fine now. With Mcgills, Greenock seems fine but Johnstone and Inchinnan still have cancellations each day although the number differs wildly by the day.
SPT tenders in general are an utter mess and could be done in a far better way with less resources. I don't think that they need completely individual services but instead could be incorporated into current commercial services across the SPT operating area.
Glasgowbusguy
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I am surprised but not surprised at First taking back the 46, as the last First 46 is usually pretty full and there's been grumbling for years about the issues late at night.
voidwxrranty
Member
Wonder if JMB can do all of those without running into driver shortages, that's quite a lot they picked up.
If you see the PDF in full you will see most have been awarded into next year or the following:
Would have thought a few more operators might have wanted some extra work or at least into July for the previously mentioned contracts to start but I guess it's too short notice.
If you see the PDF in full you will see most have been awarded into next year or the following:
Would have thought a few more operators might have wanted some extra work or at least into July for the previously mentioned contracts to start but I guess it's too short notice.
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voidwxrranty
Member
Exactly what I was thinking, the Inner Circle needs 4 drivers, 93/193’s need 3, the rest need at most 2 each.
Jordan Adam
Established Member
My thoughts exactly too. Especially given lots of runs were being missed on the 56 not too long ago. I wonder if this will mean the recently withdrawn Darts being reinstated or will newer vehicles be sourced for the contracts.
Short Notice Journey Cancellations: Wednesday 25/01/23 - JMB Travel
How can a company who has numerous cancellations on a daily basis be allowed to take on more work?
Stan Drews
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They may not accept all the awards.Short Notice Journey Cancellations: Wednesday 25/01/23 - JMB Travel
www.jmbtravel.co.uk
How can a company who has numerous cancellations on a daily basis be allowed to take on more work?
Isnt that virtually the entire 56 service that was cancelled on Wednesday?
I knew it was bad but that's absolutely awful. I don't think it'll be long before we get to a stage where some tendered services have to be axed completely as nobody has the drivers to take them.They may not accept all the awards.
Isnt that virtually the entire 56 service that was cancelled on Wednesday?
Stan Drews
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I thought that might be a possibility with the 189/190 contract, as it generates 4 late shifts, which aren’t generally very popular so more difficult to recruit/retain for.
I definitely agree with that. It's no surprise that evening services across different companies are taking a battering with cuts. Anything that can be done to retain staff really has to be done now.
Also of note it's not even just the nightly services that have trouble getting drivers together to cover all the shifts needed.
Even Canavan Travel have been struggling to run the 247 at times according to their Facebook page which has also impacted their other services too.
Today:
And last week there was more disruption:
Even Canavan Travel have been struggling to run the 247 at times according to their Facebook page which has also impacted their other services too.
Today:
And last week there was more disruption:
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Most of the smaller companies are in an impossible situation with the current situation to be honest. Very few have enough resources to pay minimum wage let alone the needed rate to get drivers in easily now. Most of the bigger companies would be loss making in an instant too if I'm honest. The public don't seem to realise that either when they shout "pay them more."
It's times like this where the industry needs more funding than ever and tragically it was cut.
I don't think non bus people realise how much it costs to run just one vehicle these days. I've seen figures equating to £60 per hour (although it averages out at around £40).
If you even slice 5 to10% off that for profit, it's still a huge amount of money that needed
Stan Drews
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£60 is probably a little high, even considering full depot/head office overheads, but £40 is certainly in the right ball park. Evening and Sunday contracts can be done cheaper if you can make use of a vehicle that is covering its costs during the main day. That way you are essentially needing to cover just the fuel and wages and a bit of wear and tear, so more likely around £25/hour.
Many of these SPT contracts don’t bring in a lot of revenue, so there isn’t much to net off against your costs.
I've never been in the bus industry but I'm also from a business and accountancy background so costs are something I've analysed for different industries in my spare time as well as in education. People just see overall profit figures with companies too and they're pointless in reality when it comes to companies with loads of operating areas.
The reality is that even a few million is pocket change when it comes to covering costs. The other thing that doesn't help is that petrol has dropped so much compared to diesel. There are a lot of 25p differences between the two at petrol stations near me and I can't recall ever seeing that in my life.
Stan Drews
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The 189/190 and the 59 have been put back out to tender, so it would appear that JMB and McColl’s have turned down these contracts.
The 189 and 190 have been split into two separated contracts.
GusB
Established Member
According to...? Please remember to post your sources, along with a suitable quote from your source. Thanks
SPT website shows new operators other than the 189, 190 and 59. JMB have taken up the other contracts offered to them, we will see how they cope as does seem like far too much work here.
www.spt.co.uk
Splitting the contracts does make sense if they can get one operator on the 189 and the other on the 190, too big of a job for the smaller companies to run both.
The 59 runs from 8:15am until 23:01 Monday to Saturday and 10:15 to 23:01 on Sunday so needs a company that can provide a few drivers all day.
McColl's M4 will only run until July of this year so it will either get retendered or cancelled altogether.
Bus Timetables | SPT | Strathclyde Partnership for Transport
SPT subsidises local bus services in areas not served by commercial bus operators. Timetables for these services are provided below. For commercial services visit the operators' website, use the timetable finder below or call Traveline Scotland on 0871 200 2233.
www.spt.co.uk
Splitting the contracts does make sense if they can get one operator on the 189 and the other on the 190, too big of a job for the smaller companies to run both.
The 59 runs from 8:15am until 23:01 Monday to Saturday and 10:15 to 23:01 on Sunday so needs a company that can provide a few drivers all day.
McColl's M4 will only run until July of this year so it will either get retendered or cancelled altogether.
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Trnsprt4Sctlnd
Member
Realistically how many vehicles and drivers are needed for these??SPT website shows new operators other than the 189, 190 and 59. JMB have taken up the other contracts offered to them, we will see how they cope as does seem like far too much work here.
Bus Timetables | SPT | Strathclyde Partnership for Transport
SPT subsidises local bus services in areas not served by commercial bus operators. Timetables for these services are provided below. For commercial services visit the operators' website, use the timetable finder below or call Traveline Scotland on 0871 200 2233.
Splitting the contracts does make sense if they can get one operator on the 189 and the other on the 190, too big of a job for the smaller companies to run both.
The 59 runs from 8:15am until 23:01 Monday to Saturday and 10:15 to 23:01 on Sunday so needs a company that can provide a few drivers all day.
McColl's M4 will only run until July of this year so it will either get retendered or cancelled altogether.
The 59 requires 2 buses in the daytime and 1 bus in weekends / evening depending on where you can change drivers etc as required per rules for breaks.
The 189 /190 need 2 buses each to run the timetable and I think max duty should be 4hrs30mins or thereabouts.
Edit - The 59 might be running a reduced timetable due to driver supply issues - can't remember what initial contract was.
Trnsprt4Sctlnd
Member
I can only assume that First are currently running those from Scotstoun given that the 90 runs from there?
Stan Drews
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The source was an email from SPT.According to...? Please remember to post your sources, along with a suitable quote from your source. Thanks
The M4 was already part of the routine re-tendering for July this year, and was ironically awarded to First, …but with the qualification re driver availability. See post further up thread.SPT website shows new operators other than the 189, 190 and 59. JMB have taken up the other contracts offered to them, we will see how they cope as does seem like far too much work here.
Bus Timetables | SPT | Strathclyde Partnership for Transport
SPT subsidises local bus services in areas not served by commercial bus operators. Timetables for these services are provided below. For commercial services visit the operators' website, use the timetable finder below or call Traveline Scotland on 0871 200 2233.
Splitting the contracts does make sense if they can get one operator on the 189 and the other on the 190, too big of a job for the smaller companies to run both.
The 59 runs from 8:15am until 23:01 Monday to Saturday and 10:15 to 23:01 on Sunday so needs a company that can provide a few drivers all day.
McColl's M4 will only run until July of this year so it will either get retendered or cancelled altogether.
I do find it weird that First's July awards are subject to driver availability but nobody else's are considering everyone is in the same boat when it comes to driver shortages. A whole rethink of whether these services are as essential as made out will need to be made fairly soon it feels like.
Stan Drews
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I assume it was more down to the fact that First advised SPT they were cancelling all these contracts due to the driver shortage, whilst around the same time had submitted new bids as part of the regular annual tendering round.
That would make sense to be fair. It's such a tricky situation at the moment. In an ideal world in non-covid times, it would probably make sense for bigger companies with more resources to fill in more territory with their services whereas smaller companies could take the SPT tenders in order to max out their revenue when possible.
Unfortunately, in the current times it's an absolute mess where everyone is short of drivers so unless something dramatically changes then tenders could be axed in some cases.
With the 11, I've used it a couple of times and it was incredibly quiet. The evening journeys on Monday to Saturday could easily be axed with a couple of later Sunday journeys being cut too. The M4 is something that could probably be reworked to be honest and combined with the 141 SPT tender to create a Partick to Anniesland route that runs every 45 minutes or hourly via the current 141 route then back along onto Cleveden Road, Dorchester Avenue and Great Western Road to Anniesland.
DC21
Member
I noticed that JMB had the new SPT services timetable on their website yesterday, but today they seem to be gone.
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