St Ives branch

[Halsebee]

Travelled today on St Ives branch. Tried to buy single with Friends and Family railcard for one adult and a child. Told by conductor (ticket office closed) that railcards not valid on this line (except Cornwall cards for locals), as it is heavily subsidised by local council. Looked on National rail, and it seems to be true. Only a St Ives day ranger available. Why is this, and is it legal, as this is not a private line, and T and C's nationally should apply, shouldn't they? Why no "normal" tickets and conditions
Also told single from Hayle to St Ives does not qualify for railcard discount, which I think is clearly wrong?
Incidentally I'm travelling from St Ives to Exeter day return this weekend, a journey of 260 miles return for £17.20 for one adult and 2 kids, with F and F railcard. One adult and two kids is the same"normal" fares as two adults travelling, so £8.60 per person for 260 miles or 3p per mile per person. Is this the best value walk on fare in the country (excluding rovers etc)? Probably not, as I'm sure someone on here will improve on it, but it is still amazing value (unlike the St Ives branch fares). Can anyone come up with the best value fare in the country?

 

[TEW]

I think the fare to Plymouth is slightly better value than to Exeter, but they are both very cheap. Because for travel entirely on the St Ives you have to buy a rover ticket, there is no Family Railcard discount, in line with all other rover tickets. The fare for the St Ives line is as a result a little overpriced at £4 for an adult, for future reference it is cheaper to buy a ticket from Hayle to St Ives, at £2.80, and railcard discount is valid with that.

 

[OwlMan]

I think the fare to Plymouth is slightly better value than to Exeter, but they are both very cheap. Because for travel entirely on the St Ives you have to buy a rover ticket, there is no Family Railcard discount, in line with all other rover tickets. The fare for the St Ives line is as a result a little overpriced at £4 for an adult, for future reference it is cheaper to buy a ticket from Hayle to St Ives, at £2.80, and railcard discount is valid with that.

The adult fare is
Adult

£4 or 'One Stop Hop' half the Ranger rate.

According to National Rail the following applies

"Alternatively there is the option of the 'One Stop Hop' version. This permits one return trip for half the Ranger rate."

Therefore the cost of a return trip from St Erth to St Ives is only £2 not £4


Peter

 

[Halsebee]

The revenue collectors don't seem to know about that fare

 

[yorkie]

I doubt they are legally allowed to have seperate fares as if they are not part of the National Rail network, but of course the TOCs can get away with almost anything these days :cry: although maybe one day something will be done about that....

In the mean time the Hayle suggestion seems to work. What a farce! It's 1.80 with a railcard and 1.00 for children with a family railcard. Much cheaper than for the shorter journey from St Erth.

Splitting tickets is common knowledge but buying further is often cheaper too, just not quite as common.

 

[starrymarkb]

I think its tied up with the park and ride at Lelant.

 

[John @ home]

According to National Rail the following applies

"Alternatively there is the option of the 'One Stop Hop' version. This permits one return trip for half the Ranger rate."

Therefore the cost of a return trip from St Erth to St Ives is only £2 not £4

But St Erth to St Ives is not 'One Stop'. Lelant Saltings and Carbis Bay are intermediate stations.

I'm not convinced that this arrangement meets the commitment given before privatisation that an integrated national ticketing network would be maintained. I will research this point further.

John

 

[TEW]

The One Stop Hop ticket is a single for one stop, not one return trip. They clearly are allowed to do this, because it has always been like this.

 

[glynn80]

The OP wished to make a single journey from St Erth to St Ives.

This particular flow is not listed in the FRPP (I have no idea why), but when checking the fares on the NXEC Website, you can purchase both a CDS at £2.70 or an SDS at £5.20.

The fares listed above however are identical to the single fares from Hayle (which incidentally are listed in the FRPP). Whether or not St Erth fares are derived from those of Hayle I do not know, but there is a ticket that does exist for the journey the OP wished to make and Family Railcard discounts would have applied (unless the ticket office was open at the time the train departed St Erth).

 

[dan_atki]

I'm amazed that you got fares on NXEC for St Erth to St Ives - it tells me that none are found...

 

[John @ home]

when checking the fares on the NXEC Website, you can purchase both a CDS at £2.70 or an SDS at £5.20.

When I try either single or return from St Erth to St Ives, or vice-versa, on the NXEC site I get:

No fares have been found for your selected service.

John

 

[TEW]

There is no such thing as a return from St Erth to St Ives, it just doesn't exist. The appropriate ticket is a St Ives Line Day Ranger, of course you can buy a return from Hayle instead.

 

[John @ home]

They clearly are allowed to do this, because it has always been like this.

I would be very surprised if there have been no tickets available between St Erth and St Ives since the line opened on 1 June 1877.

John

 

[TEW]

But as far as I am aware it has always been like the under FGW.

 

[glynn80]

When I try either single or return from St Erth to St Ives, or vice-versa, on the NXEC site I get:

Looks like I placed Hayle in the origin box (now I know why I got the prices from Hayle).

I am looking into whether there is a legal requirement for this flow to exist.

 

[EltonRoad]

Can anyone come up with the best value fare in the country?

Off the top of my head - £19 for a Bargain Berth Sleeper from Euston to Fort William / Inverness / Aberdeen. Not sure which is the furthest - Inverness maybe?

 

[Sleepy]

Also the day ranger should be available with PRIV for £1.00 according to FRPP but Advantix machine will not permit this, however it will issue PRIV short hops ??

 

[MCR247]

Off the top of my head - £19 for a Bargain Berth Sleeper from Euston to Fort William / Inverness / Aberdeen. Not sure which is the furthest - Inverness maybe?

Inverness is furthest with Fort Bill taking longest.

 

[paul1609]

I would be very surprised if there have been no tickets available between St Erth and St Ives since the line opened on 1 June 1877.

John

I think the St Ives Rover has been in existence since 1978 when the Lelant saltings park and ride opened. I think it was part of the deal where the County Council paid for the car park and the local council paid for the platform. As such it predates privatisation by some years and FGW have just inherited a BR agreement.

 

[Sleepy]

I think the St Ives Rover has been in existence since 1978 when the Lelant saltings park and ride opened. I think it was part of the deal where the County Council paid for the car park and the local council paid for the platform. As such it predates privatisation by some years and FGW have just inherited a BR agreement.

Incorrect - the normal tickets from St Erth to any branch station were also available until about 4/5 years ago. A ticket from Lelant Saltings for up to 5 people including car parking was also available.

 

[glynn80]

Incorrect - the normal tickets from St Erth to any branch station were also available until about 4/5 years ago. A ticket from Lelant Saltings for up to 5 people including car parking was also available.

Correct.

In April 2005 Wessex Trains announced their plans to relaunch the rail rover system they presided over including revamping the entire ticketing system for the Cornish Branch Lines.

Their revamp replaced the old CDR fares with day rovers (at the same price), leaving the branch lines in effect with no return fare flows. Here is a quote from Newsrail Express that explains the situation:

Branch Lines

£ Various

From 12 June 2005, Cheap Day Return tickets purchased for the complete end to end journey on many Wessex Trains Branch Lines will change validity to allow unlimited travel on that route for the day of issue. The routes where this applies are Maritime Line (Truro — Falmouth) £3.00; Atlantic Coast Line (Par — Newquay) £4.90; Looe Valley Line (Liskeard — Looe) £2.80; Tamar Valley Line (Plymouth to Gunnislake) £5.20; Tarka Line (Exeter — Barnstaple) £10.30; Severn Beach (Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach). £3.20. All validities and discounts are as the normal CDR ticket type for the relevant journey.

 

[TEW]

The problem in relation to other fares is that the St Ives rover hasn't changed in price in recent years, but the fares from Hayle at Penzance to St Ives have gone down by a lot.

 

[glynn80]

Branch Lines

£ Various

From 12 June 2005, Cheap Day Return tickets purchased for the complete end to end journey on many Wessex Trains Branch Lines will change validity to allow unlimited travel on that route for the day of issue. The routes where this applies are Maritime Line (Truro — Falmouth) £3.00; Atlantic Coast Line (Par — Newquay) £4.90; Looe Valley Line (Liskeard — Looe) £2.80; Tamar Valley Line (Plymouth to Gunnislake) £5.20; Tarka Line (Exeter — Barnstaple) £10.30; Severn Beach (Bristol Temple Meads to Severn Beach). £3.20. All validities and discounts are as the normal CDR ticket type for the relevant journey.

Just rereading my post, I realised that the St Ives Branch Line isn't actually listed in the Newsrail Express article, suggesting that perhaps the Rover system used on the line predates June 2005.

After a brief search of the internet, I did find a mention to the fares structure on the St Ives line in a development plan for the Severn Beach line:

"Following the successful trial of a flat fare structure on the St Ives Bay Line in Cornwall, the intention here is to adopt a similar approach, for implementation in the May 2007 fares round. "

So it can be confirmed there is a flat fare structure on the line (implying that there are no intermediate fares available), how long this has been in place I cannot say. The quote mentions it was a "trial", so I would speculate two to three years prior to May 2007 at the most.

 

[Sleepy]

Also the day ranger should be available with PRIV for £1.00 according to FRPP but Advantix machine will not permit this, however it will issue PRIV short hops ??

IMO this situation is unacceptable as either 1. staff are overcharged for the trip or 2. staff are travelling for free and passenger figures are understated, depending what the guard does in this situation.

 

[TEW]

You are unlikely to be charged on a PRIV, the passenger counts really need no helping on the line either, they are high enough as it is.

 

[williamn]

The stats show here show quite dramatic falls in passenger numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Ives_Bay_Line

For example Leylant Saltings declining from 17,000 in 0203 to 251 in 0708

Would this be due to the introduction of Rover tickets?

 

[Mojo]

Yes. lt's commonly accepted on lines with unstaffed stations that the Lennon data may be slightly innacurate hence on many lines actual passenger counts are carried out. l know on the Severn Beach line there are two counts, one in summer and one in winter, which combined with the Lennon ticket sales data can provide some reliable statistics.

Of course you've got to be careful though - Lennon data showed there were some 505,000 journeys on the Severn Beach line in 2008, but averaging out the two individual counts out over the year would reveal that there were over 1,000,000 journeys; of course it's safe to say that half the passengers were not travelling on Rovers/local Travelpasses/staff Travelcards or were not paying at all.

 

[Sleepy]

You are unlikely to be charged on a PRIV, the passenger counts really need no helping on the line either, they are high enough as it is.

Fair enough in summer, but what about Oct - March when service cuts more likely ?

 

[TEW]

The service still sees enough traffic to warrant a half hourly one carriage train. As for the station statistics being so odd it is because of the rover tickets and is accepted that figures for the line are massively inaccurate.

 

[Nick W]

But the important thing is that the figures for the whole line will be accurate, and justify keeping the line, give or take a few priv users and people buying beyond their stop for "insurance". I can't see them closing individual stations.