Any update on this? Last I heard it was going to happen by the end of last year. Nothing seems to have changed.
Same thing was said about extending Oyster from East Croydon to Gatwick Airport. It didn't happen either.
I don't believe this was ever quoted as being December 2014. In the Southeastern direct award, they have committed to extending "Oyster card acceptance extended to Dartford, Swanley and Stratford International by [31] December 2016" [Source 1].
This will consist of "[Southeastern working] with TfL to seek to have Dartford and Swanley stations included in the TfL Oyster Travelcard area, and use Oyster to store ticket value for Highspeed journeys between St Pancras International and Stratford International" [Source 2].
Boris Johnson said in January 2014 "I have asked TfL to work with the Department for Transport with the aim of making this available as soon as possible. Subject to the DfT being able to agree various changes, I expect this will happen within 2014." [Source 3].
However in mid 2014, Govia Thameslink Railway (operators of Thameslink & Great Northern and soon Southern & Gatwick Express) announced that the Oyster roll-out would take place in one go in September 2015 to a wider area "as far as Epsom, Gatwick Airport, Luton Airport, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North, covering all our Metro services and the two major London airports" [Source 4].
This is written into their franchise agreement as "Extension of Zonal Fares: The Franchise shall use reasonable endeavours to extend Oyster PAYG to those areas bounded by and including the Stations located at Epsom, Gatwick Airport, Luton Airport Parkway, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford North by 30 September 2015 provided that the Franchisee and the Secretary of State agree that the terms of such introduction are not detrimental to the overall commercial position of the Franchise" [Source 5].
A letter was written to the Department for Transport a couple of weeks ago asking for progress on the Oyster extension to Gatwick Airport. Their reply notes "The GTR Franchise Agreement set out that GTR 'shall use reasonable endeavours to extend Oyster PAYG to those areas bounded by and including' Gatwick Airport by 30 September 2015. This would include the stations Merstham, Redhill, Earlswood, Salfords and Horley." ... "this obligation is intended to deliver an extension to Oyster PAYG and contactless payments only" ... "Southern Railways has made good progress on this obligation, ahead of its merger into the GTR franchise in July 2015, and we do anticipate the extension to be in place by the obligation deadline" [rest of letter regards Epsom moving to Zone 6] [Source 6].
this obligation is intended to deliver an extension to Oyster PAYG and contactless payments only
Very informative, thank you
Am I right to assume that the travelcard zones will not be extended in the ECML locals, but instead only Oyster PAYG?
Because lower fares mean higher house prices, usually.
Am I right to assume that the travelcard zones will not be extended in the ECML locals, but instead only Oyster PAYG?
Because lower fares mean higher house prices, usually.
Have you come across any evidence to uphold your hypothesis?
I find it very strange in your formulated hypothesis above that lower fares cause an increase in house prices. I was led to believe that higher house prices (in all sectors of social rent, shared ownership, buy to let, and so on) is caused primarily by a shortage of housing, which has never been addressed adequately since the 1980s when the Thatcher government introduced the Right to Buy policy. Furthermore, the local authority housing that was sold under Right to Buy was never replaced with a new build property anywhere.
In peace
Adam
Upminster has always been a expensive place to buy property long before zones came in
Upminster has always been a expensive place to buy property long before zones came in
Indeed. Its always been the case that if you have a tube stop close then your price will go up.
But Upminster is in Essex so explains a lot
*please notice the wink
You seem to be assuming that Oyster acceptance automatically means reduced fares. It doesn't. Single fares may be reduced so that two singles equals the return fare, but otherwise it is the same. Fares outside zones 1-6 are still set by the TOC and off-peak fares still exist in paper form.
I assume a few things which may not be true all the time - that the Oyster acceptance would mean an extension of the zones and there would be no special zones (from what I read, it seems unlikely that Govia would extend the zones), the Oyster cap would be reached (not all people reach the Oyster cap) and that people generally buy houses in areas with in-boundary stations to take advantage of the lower fares and drive the prices up (though some people buy houses in cheaper neighbouring areas and drive to the in-boundary stations - Elstree vs Edgware, Harlow vs Epping and Beaconsfield vs Amersham come to mind).
Oyster acceptance will not mean fares go down. If Oyster does come to Potters Bar and WGC then the fares will be the same (or very similar) to what they are today - they will not go down.
All you will get is the convenience of using Oyster.
One thing to bear in in mind is that all of these Oyster extensions are (I assume) unlikely to take place before Oyster is transitioned to a back-end system, as Oyster cards in their present form can only handle a limited number of zones, which presumably is close to being exhausted. I believe that, based on comments from Boris Johnson about weekly capping being available later this year on Oyster, that back-end switch will indeed be happening before 2015 is over.
I did not mean individual fares would go down.
If Potters Bar would be in Zone 7, its season ticket would be a zonal travelcard which would be cheaper than what the tickets are now.
If Potters Bar would be in a special zone, then yes you would only get the convenience of using Oyster.
Then, we have the Oyster cap, which caps the expenditure on NR.
Season ticket prices won't go down either, I'm afraid.
If they did go down I it will introduce a whole host of splitting opportunities for passengers from further afield, which the TOC's won't want to do. Also, if season ticket prices get lowered how will the TOC's be compensated for the loss of revenue?
If they end up in zone 7 then watch the price of zone 7 seasons rise massively. My bet is on a special fares zone.
Stratford International HS1 is not going into any kind of zone - it will just deduct cash from your card, similar to how the Emirates Air Line works.
I did not mean individual fares would go down.
If Potters Bar would be in Zone 7, its season ticket would be a zonal travelcard which would be cheaper than what the tickets are now.
If Potters Bar would be in a special zone, then yes you would only get the convenience of using Oyster.
Then, we have the Oyster cap, which caps the expenditure on NR.
Potters Bar would have been in Zone 9 under the FCC proposals that the DfT vetoed.
Really? I would have thought that Potters Bar would have been proposed as either Zone 7 or a special zone.
But Upminster is in Essex so explains a lot
*please notice the wink
Oyster acceptance between STP and Stratford starting next week, according to the BBC's Tom Edwards.