• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Stagecoach Group (Group-wide matters)

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
When visiting Manchester, I have noticed that Magic Bus services have been running for a considerable time period. Bearing in mind what you say above about Magic Bus services, can someone explain to me why these Manchester-based services are still running.

One word: students.

These days, as @Bletchleyite says, it's a means of differential-pricing. You have the cheap-and-cheerful old buses for the students, and the shiny new buses for the commuters. Also don't forget that First compete on the 42.

Magic Bus was a widely-used brand but, outside of the Oxford Road corridor, I can't think of anywhere where it is still used.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
17,882
Location
Reston City Centre
Certain places are more prevalent for Gold routes. West, Oxfordshire and Midlands have numerous routes, whereas Scotland has one (aside from Citylink) and North East has none at all. Yorkshire, like Kent or East, haven't extended it so much - a lack of suitable candidates?

Thanks (all) for the above replies - I guess I just live in a fairly "quiet" part of the country, as far as Gold routes go, and my main other experience of Stagecoach is in central belt Scotland and Tyne/Wearside.

The old 265 (Sheffield - Barnsley) was recently revamped - renumbered "2", the E400s route branded with a purple livery, extended to The Moor in Sheffield... that'd have been a good candidate for Gold (interurban route competing with Northern Rail's Pacers) but t'was not to be.

Other candidates north of here could be the X24 (Sunderland - Newcastle) or the 99 (St Andrews - Dundee)?
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,042
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Thanks (all) for the above replies - I guess I just live in a fairly "quiet" part of the country, as far as Gold routes go, and my main other experience of Stagecoach is in central belt Scotland and Tyne/Wearside.

The old 265 (Sheffield - Barnsley) was recently revamped - renumbered "2", the E400s route branded with a purple livery, extended to The Moor in Sheffield... that'd have been a good candidate for Gold (interurban route competing with Northern Rail's Pacers) but t'was not to be.

Other candidates north of here could be the X24 (Sunderland - Newcastle) or the 99 (St Andrews - Dundee)?

The Gold concept has tended to be focussed on (ahem) more middle class targets. That's not to say that there aren't middle class areas of T&W, South Yorkshire or Scotland!! The 99 fits that demographic though and there are, of course, other candidates in the North East (e.g. X47 in Newcastle, for instance) - the X24 hasn't been going that long so perhaps it may be a candidate in due course.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,042
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
One word: students.

These days, as @Bletchleyite says, it's a means of differential-pricing. You have the cheap-and-cheerful old buses for the students, and the shiny new buses for the commuters. Also don't forget that First compete on the 42.

Magic Bus was a widely-used brand but, outside of the Oxford Road corridor, I can't think of anywhere where it is still used.

I was more inclined to go with your earlier statement. Magic Bus has been employed in a couple of places. There was Glasgow, as a tool against First, disappearing when a truce was brokered? There was Newcastle where it appeared against HMB Buses - note that this was on the key cross city routes and that HMB actively targeted the student market - when HMB folded, MagicBus disappeared. Then there was the Magic Mini episode in Inverness that (I think) saw one of the competing drivers attempt arson at the Stagecoach depot.

In all the other cases, the vaunted market segmentation disappeared once the competition disappeared!!
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
the X24 hasn't been going that long so perhaps it may be a candidate in due course.

I'm surprised they didn't go down the Gold route with the X24, given how pleasant the Omnilinks are. I can only assume that it is because the Omnilinks are also chronically unreliable.

The X34 might have been a good candidate too: a self-contained fleet and strong competition from Metro and Go North East.

Newcastle pretty much has a common fleet, which would count against the chance of Gold coming to any of the routes here. The X47 interworks with various other routes at different times of the day.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
13,305
Location
Isle of Man
In all the other cases, the vaunted market segmentation disappeared once the competition disappeared!!

I was answering why I think Magic Bus has survived in Manchester. I can't imagine that First's competition on the 42 would, in itself, be enough to justify Magic Bus otherwise, especially as some of the E400s on Magic Bus are newer than some buses in the regular fleet.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,042
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
I was answering why I think Magic Bus has survived in Manchester. I can't imagine that First's competition on the 42 would, in itself, be enough to justify Magic Bus otherwise, especially as some of the E400s on Magic Bus are newer than some buses in the regular fleet.

It was there to counter all and sundry in the past (e.g. UK North, Finglands, Walls, etc) and was still there when Finglands was sold to First. Were First not completing on the 42, one wonders if MagicBus would be rationalised out of existence..... ;)
 

mbonwick

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2006
Messages
6,262
Location
Kendal
Gold orders in 2017/8 have been:
10882-8 for cross-Mersey services 471/2
10902-5 for Oxford area services - not sure which.
(15295-305 in Gold+ spec but beachball livery for X2 Preston-Liverpool)
15340-349 for Swindon 55 as mentioned previously
26178-201 for Porth 120.
 

Robertj21a

On Moderation
Joined
22 Sep 2013
Messages
7,520
Gold orders in 2017/8 have been:
10882-8 for cross-Mersey services 471/2
10902-5 for Oxford area services - not sure which.
(15295-305 in Gold+ spec but beachball livery for X2 Preston-Liverpool)
15340-349 for Swindon 55 as mentioned previously
26178-201 for Porth 120.

Plus the batch for Nuneaton 48s
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,042
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,173
Rumour has it the only reason Perth has Gold on service 7 is because it goes past Soutar's house on the Glasgow Road...

That may will be but the original reason it got given it as a test case was the fact Bus route Development grant did wonders on the route pushing it from a 20min service to 10mins service.
 

Wirewiper

Member
Joined
14 Nov 2017
Messages
612
Location
BET & TQY
...are Stagecoach still increasing "Gold"?

Are they adding additional routes elsewhere, or are "Gold" buses being painted into "beachball" livery when no longer young enough for a flagship route? Is this a concept that hit a "ceiling"?

"Gold" came to the South West on 30th September 2013, when Stagecoach set up a route between Torquay, Totnes and Dartmouth/Plymouth, in direct competition with First's long-standing X80/X81. Unusually the service was not given a number, being marketed simply as "Gold". Needless to say, brand-new Enviro400-bodied Scanias with high-back leather seating and free WiFi were streets ahead (pardon the pun) of First's motley collection of knackered mostly ex-London Tridents (the early Plaxton ones with bugger all legroom), and First withdrew the X80/X81 four weeks later. Strong growth on the Plymouth leg and disappointing loadings to and from Dartmouth saw the latter dropped and virtually all journeys operating Torquay-Plymouth on a half-hourly frequency (hourly Sundays). Totnes-Dartmouth was covered by an extension on the X64. The service is operated mainly by Torquay Depot, although when Stagecoach started operations in Plymouth in September 2015 a few duties transferred there - I believe that a Torquay vehicle is outstationed every night.

Route 57 (Exeter - Exmouth & Brixington) has since been converted to Gold, and Gold-spec vehicles sometimes operate on the X38 between Exeter and Plymouth.

I had thought that the busy 12 between Newton Abbot, Torquay, Paignton and Brixham would be a suitable candidate for Gold treatment. The new vehicles that entered service last year are higher-specification and have WiFi and USB charging, although the seating and legroom is not as generous as Gold-spec. Most were painted in a "Hop 12" red version of standard Stagecoach livery, which is vaguely but pleasingly reminiscent of the old Devon General colour.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,531
Location
Aberdeen
That may will be but the original reason it got given it as a test case was the fact Bus route Development grant did wonders on the route pushing it from a 20min service to 10mins service.

There's a whole segment about the 7 in this video here from 3:45 in. Although most locals in the Perth/Dundee area would agree it only got the investment due to it going past Souters house. (As already mentioned).

 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,173
Scotland Used to have a great BRDS but thanks to the SNP Government there screwed it up and its been crap since 2007, at time where it is most needed.
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,531
Location
Aberdeen
Scotland Used to have a great BRDS but thanks to the SNP Government there screwed it up and its been crap since 2007, at time where it is most needed.

Sorry if this is a stupid question (Yes i do need sleep). But i can't think for the life of me what BRDS is. Google comes up with nothing either.
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,173
Sorry if this is a stupid question (Yes i do need sleep). But i can't think for the life of me what BRDS is. Google comes up with nothing either.
Its supposed to be the correct name for "Bus route Development grant" ie Bus route Development grant scheme ( with grant taken out)
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,611
Location
Elginshire
Sorry if this is a stupid question (Yes i do need sleep). But i can't think for the life of me what BRDS is. Google comes up with nothing either.
It's not a stupid question. I had no idea what BRDS was either - please do not assume that everyone else knows what you're talking about when using acronyms.
 

Dentonian

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2017
Messages
1,192
It was there to counter all and sundry in the past (e.g. UK North, Finglands, Walls, etc) and was still there when Finglands was sold to First. Were First not completing on the 42, one wonders if MagicBus would be rationalised out of existence..... ;)

Possibly not. MagicBus was first introduced in Manchester partly so that Stagecoach could be seen to be "competing with itself" in the eyes of the then OFT. It was retained on Oxford Road partly because of competition and partly because of the Student market that is deemed to simply not afford full fares.
As regards the buses used on MagicBus. Over the last 18 months or so, all the remaining Tridents have been hurriedly replaced by Euro4 engined Enviro 400s in line with a voluntary (for now) agreement to keep all buses with greater emissions than Euro4 off Wilmslow Road, Rochdale Road and the LGB corridors. This is why the remaining 56/07 reg E400s still run "normal" services. These are Euro3s and there are only about 14 left anyway, running mainly from Wigan and Ashton depots
 

Jordan Adam

Established Member
Joined
12 Sep 2017
Messages
5,531
Location
Aberdeen
More cuts coming for Stagecoach North Scotland.
Although only changes for the highland side are being proposed just now and they're not as drastic as the previous service changes, but still some pretty significant cuts nonetheless.

A summary of the proposed changes and the full timetable booklets can be viewed on the page here.
 

TheGrandWazoo

Veteran Member
Joined
18 Feb 2013
Messages
20,042
Location
Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Possibly not. MagicBus was first introduced in Manchester partly so that Stagecoach could be seen to be "competing with itself" in the eyes of the then OFT. It was retained on Oxford Road partly because of competition and partly because of the Student market that is deemed to simply not afford full fares.

Ahem.... the same stuff was trotted out when MagicBus was introduced to Newcastle - market segmentation, students etc. Cheaper fares from use of depreciated kit etc.

Of course, it appeared when HMB Buses appeared, and when they turned turtle, MagicBus quickly disappeared. Excuse my cynicism.... ;)
 

Dentonian

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2017
Messages
1,192
Ahem.... the same stuff was trotted out when MagicBus was introduced to Newcastle - market segmentation, students etc. Cheaper fares from use of depreciated kit etc.

Of course, it appeared when HMB Buses appeared, and when they turned turtle, MagicBus quickly disappeared. Excuse my cynicism.... ;)

The difference in Manchester being that the brand has now lasted for many years, and whilst no longer used on other corridors where competition exists or where Stagecoach might expect it to happen, it still runs as frequently as ever on Wilmslow Road. Also, the kit is hardly depreciated. as buses are 9-10 years old, and from occasional journeys I have made on the current fleet have been re-upholstered. They are therefore more comfortable than many buses running on "premium fare" Stagecoach Manchester routes, and most First Manchester passengers would probably consider then "state of the art"!
 

Teflon Lettuce

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2013
Messages
1,750
surely the clue as to the reasoning behind magicbus is in it's first incarnation in Glasgow 1986. It has always been the combative competitive tool in Stagecoach's armoury.
 

GaryMcEwan

Established Member
Joined
20 Aug 2013
Messages
1,604
Location
Bridgeton, Glasgow
Interestingly though when Stagecoach went to war with Strathtay Scottish 1989 they introduced the Perth Panther brand rather than Magicbus and subsequently Strathtay withdrew from Perth and the Perth Panther branding disappeared not longer after IIRC.
 

Top