Stagecoach Group (Group-wide matters)

[GaryMcEwan]

I thought it stayed until 1996? but only on the routemasters?

By 1993/1994 the majority of the fleet were debranded. There might have been one or two Olympians, 019 in particular seemed to keep it until 1994.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The difference in Manchester being that the brand has now lasted for many years, and whilst no longer used on other corridors where competition exists or where Stagecoach might expect it to happen, it still runs as frequently as ever on Wilmslow Road.

It's certainly unusual. I'm just as cynical as @TheGrandWazoo when it comes to Stagecoach, if not more so. If they didn't already have it I don't think they'd bring it in now, but it does still serve a purpose in stopping First (nee Finglands) from getting too much more interested in the corridor. If First withdrew from Wilmslow Road, it'd certainly be interesting to see if Magic Bus survived.

Magic Bus fares have just shot up, from £1 single to £1.50 single, too. Still cheap for the area, yes, but a 50% increase is a 50% increase. It'll be interesting to see whether Magic Bus fares will continue to be significantly different to Stagecoach Manchester's "normal" fares. A £3.60 MagicBus day rider certainly isn't the excellent value it used to be.

 

[Dentonian]

It's certainly unusual. I'm just as cynical as @TheGrandWazoo when it comes to Stagecoach, if not more so. If they didn't already have it I don't think they'd bring it in now, but it does still serve a purpose in stopping First (nee Finglands) from getting too much more interested in the corridor. If First withdrew from Wilmslow Road, it'd certainly be interesting to see if Magic Bus survived.

Magic Bus fares have just shot up, from £1 single to £1.50 single, too. Still cheap for the area, yes, but a 50% increase is a 50% increase. It'll be interesting to see whether Magic Bus fares will continue to be significantly different to Stagecoach Manchester's "normal" fares. A £3.60 MagicBus day rider certainly isn't the excellent value it used to be.

Stagecoach Manchester fares are very complicated when it comes to competition. The £1.50 single any distance is the same as between Swinton and Manchester on the 38, whilst the Magic DayRider is now 10p more (ten pennies, note!) than the same ticket on Rochdale Road services. Both considerably cheaper than on heavy loading captive market routes, of course.

 

[overthewater]

This is good enough place, Stagecoach west Scotland seems to be planning a good amount of service changes in April. No ideas behide these changes,

 

[Volvodart]

Mainly reduced services Easter Monday and May Day.

 

[Volvodart]

It looks like Fort William depot will be closing.

https://www.obantimes.co.uk/2018/02/21/stagecoach-considers-axing-fort-depot-in-lochaber-review/

Stagecoach considers axing Fort depot in Lochaber review

The potential closure of its Fort William bus depot is one of the options being considered by transport giant, Stagecoach, in a review of its operations in Lochaber.

Employees of the company are now being consulted on future options for the business and Stagecoach says it is working closely with trade unions to minimise the potential impact on staff.

In a shock statement issued by Stagecoach today (Wednesday February 21) the company revealed that, since April last year, the company had been unable to cover the cost of running its local network due to a combination of tender losses, reduced passenger demand and higher costs, and the situation is no longer sustainable.

The operator – which runs eight vehicles and employs 16 staff in Fort William – has had recent discussion with Highland Council about the future of some services in Lochaber.

This included its Service 45 which Stagecoach operates on a commercial basis.

However, according to the company, its alternative proposals for the route were not acceptable to the local authority and, as a consequence, Service 45, which takes in Fort William’s Middle Street, Caol, Lochyside, Banavie and Inverlochy, is to be axed with its final day being Saturday March 17.

Stagecoach says it is now also considering further options, including what is termed the ‘closure of the business’, but will continue discussing its proposals with Highland Council and other operators to protect as much of the local network as possible.

The company is hoping the majority of its staff could be relocated elsewhere in the Stagecoach North Scotland business or with other bus operators, and employees will be able to discuss their preferences with the management team.

Reacting to the news, local MP Ian Blackford told us: ‘I am saddened to hear that Stagecoach is currently reviewing the future of its operation in Fort William and hope that this will not result in closure.’

Stagecoach has operated the Fort William bus business since 2008 when it took it over from Rapsons. But a combination of rising operating costs and changes to tenders awarded by the Highland Council in April 2017 has impacted the financial sustainability of the business.

However, Stagecoach says its Scottish Citylink services to Glasgow, Inverness, Oban and Skye will continue to operate.

Mark Whitelocks, managing director for Stagecoach North Scotland, told us: ‘We are a significant local employer and we understand the importance of bus services for the local community.

‘We also know that any change can be unsettling for our people. That’s why we are working closely with both the trade union to protect as many jobs and as much of the local bus services as possible.

‘We’re carrying out a consultation and will be working closely with staff during this process, however the reality is that we simply cannot sustain the current operation.’

Stagecoach North Scotland currently employs around 840 staff and operates a fleet of more than 350 buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It looks like Fort William depot will be closing.

https://www.obantimes.co.uk/2018/02/21/stagecoach-considers-axing-fort-depot-in-lochaber-review/

Not perhaps a huge surprise after losing work that underpinned the depot - was it Shiel Buses who picked up the work? Quite a facility for such a small allocation now.

What with pulling out of VTEC, Norfolk and now Lochaber, can we press the red button of Stagecoach in crisis? Perhaps a series of poorly researched posts centring on the share price is in order....

In all seriousness, you can understand exactly why they're doing it. The bus industry is a tough place to be at the moment though this is more along the lines of simply losing work so that a depot becomes unsustainable.

 

[overthewater]

Also has Stagecoach Highland broke even yet?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Also has Stagecoach Highland broke even yet?

I believed it was profitable though I'd suggest largely underpinned by Inverness. What do the financials report?

 

[overthewater]

I believed it was profitable though I'd suggest largely underpinned by Inverness. What do the financials report?

Its been report many times that old Rapson operation ( under stagecoach control) never really broke even and when Mr walker was dealing with it he managed to cut the loses but not swing it into the black? I cant remember what its comes under in Company house?

 

[Jordan Adam]

I've said for quite a while now if Stagecoach were to sell off a whole division it would be Highlands (Or North Scotland for that matter) . Yes while the bluebird side does have some profit making routes, it also has many which make little to no profit. In addition most of the routes in the Caithness area are loss making.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've said for quite a while now if Stagecoach were to sell off a whole division it would be Highlands (Or North Scotland for that matter) . Yes while the bluebird side does have some profit making routes, it also has many which make little to no profit. In addition most of the routes in the Caithness area are loss making.

This the one https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC158193/filing-history ???

If so, it made £1.6m in 2016 but down to £700k by 2017. Bluebird made £1.9m, half of 2016 whilst turnover fell markedly as well.

 

[overthewater]

I think that's the one. That also includes the Inverness, Nairn and Tain ( the profitable areas)

 

[Volvodart]

This the one https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC158193/filing-history ???

If so, it made £1.6m in 2016 but down to £700k by 2017. Bluebird made £1.9m, half of 2016 whilst turnover fell markedly as well.

Of course, the full effect of the contract losses will not be seen until the current year's accounts.

 

[smtglasgow]

Stagecoach aren’t going to dispose of Highland or Bluebird. For predominantly rural networks in unforgiving territory, I reckon they make a decent contribution to the group - and there will be measures like pulling out of Fort William (and, perhaps, the other marginal areas) where costs can be cut in the future.

But they are guilty of constant tinkering with their networks. I know Inverness far better than Aberdeen, but both Highland and Bluebird seem to be in a state of permanent network reviews. Over the last ten years the Inverness town network has been redesigned, ripped up, reviewed at least once a year – often more. Bluebird has seen reductions on most main routes, but also seems to have a huge number of revisions – again, often several times a year. No doubt all this is making the cost savings that keep the firms profitable, but some stability might help keep passengers.

 

[Volvodart]

Most of Highland apart from Inverness would more suit someone like West Coast Motors or some other local company.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Tbh with Bluebird the only stuff that make "good" profit are the X17, 59, 727 and Buchan Xpress. Don't get my wrong i'm not saying every other route makes a loss, but what i'm saying is they don't make much profit. Routes to Inverurie and down the coast have seen mass cuts over the past few years (Frequencies being slashed from 8BPH to 2BPH for example). With the prospect of the rail line reopening up to Ellon and a new railway station at Newtonhill becoming more a reality as time goes it's going to get worse. Part of the reason for changes constantly is due to reliability issues. The 35 is appalling just now, almost like more buses breakdown or don't run rather than make it from one end to the other!

It will be interesting to hear the public's views at the upcoming local bus forum events.

 

[overthewater]

What do you expect with whitelock in control? Its been said the oil and gas turndown hasn't helped matter? The 7's route can be held up by 15mins because of the roadworks linked to New Aberdeen by pass... You cant expect them to throw out tone of extra buses for that?

By how much is stagecoach clinging on to isle of skye? That would only leave Aviemore and Wick depots and I cant see either of them going, since there tied into other works like citylink and skiing.

 

[Volvodart]

That would only leave Aviemore and Wick depots and I cant see either of them going, since there tied into other works like citylink and skiing.

That depends on if they lose more contracts when the tenders are up again.

 

[smtglasgow]

• I’ve got a soft spot for Aviemore – a real survivor of a depot. I guess it’s future will always be tied into Highland Council tenders. When you factor in potential tender losses, it’s quite easy to see Stagecoach Highlands shrinking back to it’s pre-Rapsons state, but I still reckon there is enough business in the wider Inverness area to keep Stagecoach interested.
  
  Is Stagecoach Highlands managed separately from Bluebird, or is it the one management team?
  
  

 

[Volvodart]

All run from Inverness.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What do you expect with whitelock in control? Its been said the oil and gas turndown hasn't helped matter? The 7's route can be held up by 15mins because of the roadworks linked to New Aberdeen by pass... You cant expect them to throw out tone of extra buses for that?

By how much is stagecoach clinging on to isle of skye? That would only leave Aviemore and Wick depots and I cant see either of them going, since there tied into other works like citylink and skiing.

Do they have a depot at Wick? I thought it was Thurso??

Clearly, all those depots outside Inverness are heavily dependent on tenders to underpin them. Lose those and it seriously impacts on their viability. Unlike some instances where facilities can be downgraded (eg just a yard, no maintenance), they are so remote that this isn’t practicable.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Is Stagecoach Highlands managed separately from Bluebird, or is it the one management team?

Same management under the "Stagecoach North Scotland" name. technically "Stagecoach Bluebird" and "Stagecoach Highlands" etc are no longer used (Although registered as 2 separate companies)

 

[Jordan Adam]

The 7's route can be held up by 15mins because of the roadworks linked to New Aberdeen by pass... You cant expect them to throw out tone of extra buses for that?.

Out of anything the 7/7B is seeing the least reliability issues out of all the main branches of services out of Aberdeen just now. The Deeside services are far more affected by AWPR at Milltimber.

In addition to this the journey time on the Coastrider has not went up all that much since the April 2006 timetable. Only about 10 minutes extra when comparing the 107 to the 7B and that's with the 7B also serving Gateway, Marywell, Hillside and Chapleton Park & Choose now. There used to be a solid 15 minute service to Portlethen, Newtonhill and Stonehaven. Stonehaven has had a 25% drop, Portlethen 50% and Newtonhill 75%. Keep in mind that 2 of the 3 buses per hour to Stonehaven miss out the key links such as the shopping centres in Portlethen. In the evening there's only 3 buses after 18:00 from Aberdeen which serve Newtonhill compared to the half hourly service it used to get. While AWPR will have had an affect on the 7/7B it's not anywhere near the scale to justify the cuts.

While the Oil & Gas downturn has seen numbers drop slightly First and Stagecoach are both stretching the truth and using it as an excuse. It is interesting to note the number of B7Rs withdrawn lately with no replacements though!

 

[overthewater]

When is all the roadworks going finsh and the new by pass opening?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

When is all the roadworks going finsh and the new by pass opening?

Wasn't it one of the major projects that Carillion was engaged in?

 

[Jordan Adam]

When is all the roadworks going finsh and the new by pass opening?

small parts are already open but the rest is due to open later this year.

Wasn't it one of the major projects that Carillion was engaged in?

Yes it was but other companies were also involved and they have taken on the work work along with the staff. But as you could expect there's a bit of a delay.

 

[cf111]

Do they have a depot at Wick? I thought it was Thurso??

Clearly, all those depots outside Inverness are heavily dependent on tenders to underpin them. Lose those and it seriously impacts on their viability. Unlike some instances where facilities can be downgraded (eg just a yard, no maintenance), they are so remote that this isn’t practicable.

There are depots at Wick and Thurso, but I think Wick is just for fuelling and secure parking.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There are depots at Wick and Thurso, but I think Wick is just for fuelling and secure parking.

Nothing listed in O license for Wick, just one vehicle bases for Berriedale and Brabster. Any detail on where it is?

EDIT: found a parking area at Wick Airport. Secure parking and a fuel island (looks old - poss u/s). Not a depot.

There used to be a depot in the Station Yard at Wick but that went >20 years ago.

 

[cf111]

Nothing listed in O license for Wick, just one vehicle bases for Berriedale and Brabster. Any detail on where it is?

EDIT: found a parking area at Wick Airport. Secure parking and a fuel island (looks old - poss u/s). Not a depot.

There used to be a depot in the Station Yard at Wick but that went >20 years ago.

The airport place must be what I'm thinking of. About a year ago on an 81 (Wick-Thurso via Castletown) I was on we took a detour up there because we needed fuel.