Stagecoach Lincolnshire

[Typhoon]

I've never quite worked out how a renumbering such as this makes things simpler. How is, say, 15 any easier than 27? Or 6 and 9 any easier than 44 and 66? Okay, one fewer digit, but repeated digits tend to be more memorable. It merely confuses the occasional traveller who is looking for a bus number 44 when they should be looking for a number 9.​

 

[trentside]

I've never quite worked out how a renumbering such as this makes things simpler. How is, say, 15 any easier than 27? Or 6 and 9 any easier than 44 and 66? Okay, one fewer digit, but repeated digits tend to be more memorable. It merely confuses the occasional traveller who is looking for a bus number 44 when they should be looking for a number 9.​

It doesn’t.

It’s all bluff to disguise frequency cuts to the 5 and the Birchwood services. Or am I being cynical again?

 

[Failed Unit]

Just looking. But route no.6 Is Lincoln - Skegness which is the case for many years. Can’t see need about it getting renumbered so we will have 2 of them.

Found it. Now route 56. Nice.

 

[overthewater]

Also route 6 is now every 15mins alway but its every 7/8 on the circular.

 

[Typhoon]

It doesn’t.

It’s all bluff to disguise frequency cuts to the 5 and the Birchwood services. Or am I being cynical again?

Do they really think passengers won't notice the change? Our service runs less regularly, but that's alright because the route has a new number and some of the buses have got Wi-Fi!

 

[trentside]

Do they really think passengers won't notice the change? Our service runs less regularly, but that's alright because the route has a new number and some of the buses have got Wi-Fi!

I don’t think it’s that they think passengers won’t notice, more that they think they can “spin” the changes in a positive light by saying they’re simplifying the network. Even in RoadCar days, the SB6/66 was every 12 minutes - to drop to every 15 is a very drastic change. The “spin” is that there are more frequent journeys to Birchwood as the 6/9 run every 7-8 minutes but to get the 9, it’s the long way round via Boultham Moor and Doddingon Park.

Went by the new bus station earlier and two buses were circling on and off Oxford Street as the two layover bays were already full. As they then got stuck behind buses reversing off their stands it then blocked a “15” (I want to say 27?) from getting out and on its way to Hykeham. Obviously not Stagecoach’s fault but clearly issues with the new bus station already.

 

[Wirewiper]

So Lincoln-Skegness renumbered 6 to 56, Lincoln to Louth renumbered 10 to 50 - could this herald a renumbering of most/all the Lincolnshire Interconnect services into the 50s?

 

[trentside]

So Lincoln-Skegness renumbered 6 to 56, Lincoln to Louth renumbered 10 to 50 - could this herald a renumbering of most/all the Lincolnshire Interconnect services into the 50s?

It has. The 7 and 9 at Skegness are re-numbered 57 and 59, so with the exception of the 100 all Stagecoach IC routes are in the 50 series. Just Brylaine with the IC5 and IC7, oh and Stagecoach East with the 37 and 505 which I always forget about!

 

[ACBest]

I've heard reports that the frequency cut on the 6 has led to capacity issues in the morning peak, with some buses being full and standing by the time they've left Birchwood!

But of course, they're advertised as every 7/8 with the 9, so that's okay then...

 

[overthewater]

I've heard reports that the frequency cut on the 6 has led to capacity issues in the morning peak, with some buses being full and standing by the time they've left Birchwood!

But of course, they're advertised as every 7/8 with the 9, so that's okay then...

So what useless prat is reasonable for this? Its the one golden rule when you put in cuts in, double check the new freq is manageable for the full working day...... I dare say dups are happening or deckers?

 

[MedwayValiant]

So what useless prat is reasonable for this? Its the one golden rule when you put in cuts in, double check the new freq is manageable for the full working day...... I dare say dups are happening or deckers?

Some operators take the view that full and standing is desirable. Four buses full and standing is more profitable than five buses well loaded, but still with seats available.

My local route is in another part of the country completely, but it's all too common for a bus to run crush loaded because the previous bus or two didn't run. Passengers hate it and I don't suppose drivers much like it either, but I'm sure the accountants do.

 

[Typhoon]

Some operators take the view that full and standing is desirable. Four buses full and standing is more profitable than five buses well loaded, but still with seats available.

Too true. Particularly as the fifth bus would probably be sitting idle for most of the day, or transporting air.

It will only be short time pain. Those that need to travel in the peak (to work, to school, for example) will find solutions - get a lift, walk, start out earlier, walk to another bus route, cycle; those that don't will travel later/ earlier. Anything but stand in the cold and wet.

By summer, it will probably have bedded down; the problems a thing of the past.

Operators are interested in profit, not revenue.

 

[trentside]

https://twitter.com/stagecoachemid/status/960507661644193793

Stagecoach have just tweeted out that due to “unforeseen circumstances” some services in Lincoln won’t be operating today. No specifics, just a general warning.

 

[ACBest]

https://twitter.com/stagecoachemid/status/960507661644193793

Stagecoach have just tweeted out that due to “unforeseen circumstances” some services in Lincoln won’t be operating today. No specifics, just a general warning.

This happened on Saturday too - same tweet.

 

[overthewater]

Too true. Particularly as the fifth bus would probably be sitting idle for most of the day, or transporting air.

It will only be short time pain. Those that need to travel in the peak (to work, to school, for example) will find solutions - get a lift, walk, start out earlier, walk to another bus route, cycle; those that don't will travel later/ earlier. Anything but stand in the cold and wet.

By summer, it will probably have bedded down; the problems a thing of the past.

Operators are interested in profit, not revenue.

That's just idiotic and thus the management are useless , no creativity. What there supposed to do is ram in a School working bus on the schedule either at the start OR at the end to bloater the runs to every 12mins for one hour block. If you look at the school tt this is possible...

This happened on Saturday too - same tweet.

has now been deleted replaced with this: https://twitter.com/StagecoachEMid/status/960529619131752448

#Lincoln. From 1520 all services will resume as scheduled. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

 

[Typhoon]

If you look at the school tt this is possible...

Of course, it is possible; it is just easier (and probably cheaper) for the operator not to.

Penalty for leaving potential passengers behind - a few grumpy complaints from passengers. Penalty for putting on an extra service - complaints about profit from management. Which wins?

Not all operators think like that but some do (evidence: comments on numerous threads).

 

[overthewater]

Of course, it is possible; it is just easier (and probably cheaper) for the operator not to.

Penalty for leaving potential passengers behind - a few grumpy complaints from passengers. Penalty for putting on an extra service - complaints about profit from management. Which wins?

Not all operators think like that but some do (evidence: comments on numerous threads).

Where the room for Growth? where the room to make more money?

 

[Bryan Andrews]

I don't know Lincoln that well but do know Skegness. I have to say that the reduction in services followed by tweets stating cancellations points to a serious shortage of operating staff at Lincoln. Any bus company will be (eventually) slammed by the TCs for not operating the advertised registered service. A change of route numbers will always cause confusion and a possible reduction in custom. Is Lincoln an employment hotspot or are the rewards so low it`s not worth doing (if you have rent to pay and three kids)?
And what has happened to the 6A in Skeggy? Has it become the 56A? Change for change`s sake will always cost custom and therefore money.

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[overthewater]

Just to point out Lincoln network has only been part of LRC since 93 The accountants are morons then if there cant budget for growth and more money,

 

[atraindriver]

<deleted>

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just to point out Lincoln network has only been part of LRC since 93 The accountants are morons then if there cant budget for growth and more money,

The Birchwood route was one of the first instances of a simplified route over the morass of route variations. A competitive route operated by LRC. Road Car also ran services to Bracebridge Heath, location of their central works.

Also, you may have missed the recent results that show Lincoln as one of the most congested cities in the UK (118th worst on the planet!). Still, it will be ok once the bypass is completed though that will be delayed as one of the main contractors was Carillion.

Perhaps Stagecoach have had to make hard decisions and that growth isn’t likely? I’d not mind being a quid behind Moronic accountants like Souter !!!!!

 

[Robertj21a]

The Birchwood route was one of the first instances of a simplified route over the morass of route variations. A competitive route operated by LRC. Road Car also ran services to Bracebridge Heath, location of their central works.

Also, you may have missed the recent results that show Lincoln as one of the most congested cities in the UK (118th worst on the planet!). Still, it will be ok once the bypass is completed though that will be delayed as one of the main contractors was Carillion.

Perhaps Stagecoach have had to make hard decisions and that growth isn’t likely? I’d not mind being a quid behind Moronic accountants like Souter !!!!!

Very true. If only others had the ability, and consistency, of Souter (over so many years now) then some of our bus companies might not be in such a poor state (thinking of one major group in particular).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Very true. If only others had the ability, and consistency, of Souter (over so many years now) then some of our bus companies might not be in such a poor state (thinking of one major group in particular).

And, of course, the irony that Moir Lockhead was a proper bus man (having begun life as an apprentice with United Auto) rather than one of those moronic accountants......

 

[AnonymousUser1]

<snip> Road Car also ran services to Bracebridge Heath, location of their central works.

BBH has never been part of the City , the border is part way up Cross O'CLiffe Hill, by South Park school/ LSST

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

BBH has never been part of the City , the border is part way up Cross O'CLiffe Hill, by South Park school/ LSST

Correct but my point was it is far from an inter urban service and more “local” even if its outside the old municipal boundary!

 

[Cesarcollie]

And, of course, the irony that Moir Lockhead was a proper bus man (having begun life as an apprentice with United Auto) rather than one of those moronic accountants......

Well, he was an engineer..... Some engineers move to more general roles very successfully. But not all..... Moir was mainly successful at getting his own way, and not listening to contrary views

 

[AJW12]

The changes in Lincoln have, admittedly, not been amazing for the city. The new buses are good and the new bus station is definitely a step in the right direction, but I don't think it's addressed all of the underlying problems.

To link up the 6/9 (44/66) they've cut the frequency down to every 15 minutes and as I think someone's mentioned above, the crowding has been a bit of an issue. Then, whenever residents are asked for feedback, the comments are that the services don't run at convenient times, and that the reliability isn't great. And they're not wrong - the last bus to the north half of the city must leave at about 7pm, that's it. Punctuality isn't always great either, a lot of the Lincoln City services use circular routes on a relatively tight timetable which have pretty much no recovery time. I've seen it frequently in Birchwood and in Hykeham, half the time the 66 (6) and 26/27 (15/16) are bunched up going back to the city.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Correct but my point was it is far from an inter urban service and more “local” even if its outside the old municipal boundary!

as was the 2 to Branston Heighington and Washingborough even though it;s doesn't stray more than 4 or 5miles from the city centre

 

[overthewater]

http://humbertransport.blogspot.co.uk

North Lincolnshire Bus Changes
North Lincolnshire Council (NLC) are planning to make some significant changes to subsidised bus services "at the earliest practicable opportunity". The approach to bus services is summarised as:
"Utilise CallConnect where passenger numbers are currently low and the current service is infrequent;
Introduce fixed routes with CallConnect where there is sufficient demand;
Work to Total Transport principles of integration with school and college transport where possible;
Invest in concessionary fares at an annual cost of circa £1.8m;
Review existing networks to encourage strategic direct routes supported by CallConnect; and
Aim to increase the number of commercial routes operating across North Lincolnshire."
In terms of impacts on fixed/traditional services, the NLC documentation goes into some detail as to what is planned, although there are still plenty of unknowns.

Kirmington/Humberside Airport to Brigg and Scunthorpe

A new two hourly X4 services is proposed between "Kirmington/Humberside Airport" and Scunthorpe, which will operate in addition to service 4 between Brigg and Scunthorpe but via a "quicker and more direct route" - this would probably mean omitting Broughton and/or routing via Brigg Road rather than Ashby between Brigg and Scunthorpe. It is noted that a "key aim is to make the service more attractive for young people, thereby encouraging them to make greater use of the service and improving their opportunity to be both economically and socially active".

The new X4 will replace "the need to operate the [subsidised Saturday] service 366 (Goxhill to Scunthorpe via Brigg)". Subsidy will be available initially for the X4 to "encourage new passengers" and hopefully enable full commercial operation in the future. Apparently these changes also enable a "reconfiguration of the Brigg town services"

I can only presume that the intended operator is Hornsby Travel, who operate the 4. A faster service between Brigg and Scunthorpe should have potential as journey times are currently not competitive with the car; this does however come at the cost of omitting significant en-route destinations, Broughton and/or Ashby. New links from Humberside Airport to Scunthorpe, and a much improved service from Humberside Airport to Brigg and from Kirmington to Brigg and Scunthorpe are also very much welcome. Furthermore if the X4 can eventually become fully commercial that would be some positive news for rural buses.

The villages of Wrawby, Barnetby New Barnetby and Melton Ross, between Brigg and Kirmington are not mentioned. Wrawby will almost certainly be served by the X4, and if the X4 is to serve as a 366 replacement and have a chance of being commercially viable in the future then surely Barnetby will be as well?

The 68 Wolds Villager between Brigg and Kirmington/Ulceby isn't mentioned either. The 68 provides 7 weekday journeys from Barnetby into Brigg, and 6 in the other direction, with some also serving New Barnetby, Melton Ross, Humberside Airport and Kirmington, plus Wootton and Ulceby on Tuesday and Thursdays. The new X4 could replace a large part of the what the 68 currently does if it serves Barnetby, albeit at a slightly lower daytime frequency.

Something else which isn't clear is if the X4 will serve Goxhill, New Holland, Barrow, Thornton Curtis, Wootton and Ulceby on Saturdays as the 366 does. Neither is it explained how these changes will allow the Brigg Town Services to be "reconfigured".

Humber Flyer/450

NLC propose that the Humber Flyer between Hull, Barton, Humberside Airport, Grimsby and Cleethorpes is rerouted away from the A15 to include Ulceby, Wootton, Thornton Curtis and Barrow. The press release makes this appear definite, but the NLC report states that discussions with Stagecoach are ongoing; I'm not sure if the Humber Flyer is fully commercial these days or if it still receives contributions from the various local councils it serves, but either way it's not NLC's route to just alter as it wishes.

On the one hand rerouting the Humber Flyer away from the A15 to serve four additional villages will hopefully generate additional custom, but with a longer journey time. For Ulceby, Wootton, Thornton Curtis and Barrow this will be a significant improvement, should it happen. The current 450 provides two to four services a day Monday to Saturday between Barton, these villages and Immingham, with the last bus from Barton to Thornton Curtis, Wootton and Ulceby on schooldays at 1215; connections to Grimsby are available at Immingham but they give a maximum 85 minutes in Grimsby. The Humber Flyer would provide a far superior hourly Monday to Saturday service, including commuting options, to Barton, to Grimsby without a change, and new links to Hull and Cleethorpes.

This change to the Humber Flyer would enable the 450 Immingham-Barton-Brigg service to be enhanced between Barton and Brigg, where four services a day are currently provided. My experience from ten years ago was that the non-schools services didn't get a huge amount of use on this section, but whether that is still the case or not I don't know.

The future of the Immingham to Barton section is unclear; NLC's report states "the intention, subject to the above is to then enhance Service 450 in its current form with an improved service running between Barton and Brigg"; current form to means me not cancelling half the route between Immingham and Barton, but with a diverted Humber Flyer would it be needed? NLC note that service 5 will continue to serve South Killingholme so the only unserved location would be Ulceby Skitter which has the train (and CallConnect). The current 450 is very poor for access to Immingham anyway as it doesn't serve the town centre. The through links across Barton would be lost but operational convenience probably plays a large part in them existing anyway.

Kirton Klipper/94/95

NLC propose to incorporate the Kirton Klipper (354) town service in Kirton in Lindsey into the 94 between Kirton and Brigg. The 94 would serve an "additional loop of Kirton in Lindsey" rather than Gainsthorpe/Lime Sidings, which apparently "seldom has any passengers". The Kirton Klipper currently operates 3 days a week but the 94 will operate 5 days a week "peak and off peak" and provide access to Brigg. It will also probably save a vehicle. Frequencies within Kirton will however be lower at every two hours and exact route details are not provided.

It is reported that Kirton in Lindsey Town Council supports the proposal, and overall it could be a good decision. Saving a bus, providing a five day a week service and new links to Brigg are probably worth the frequency reductions three days a week and the loss of reportedly little used Gainsthorpe services.

NLC also plan to alter the 94/95 route between Scawby, Brigg and Scunthorpe. Currently the 94 operates into Brigg via Scawby then operates to Scunthorpe as a 95 via Scawby. This means say a Hibaldstow to Scunthorpe passenger would travel via Scawby twice. The change will see "residents from Scawby travelling to Scunthorpe will catch service 94 to Brigg and then onto Scunthorpe. As such, they will no longer have the inconvenience of having to change buses in Brigg." This presumably returns to the old arrangement of running the Brigg to Scunthorpe section direct, providing a further additional fast buses between the towns in addition to the X4 noted above. Quite how the majority of Scawby residents who currently have the 95 into Scunthorpe without going via Brigg will benefit though I don't know, and I thought the 94/95 required no change of bus in Brigg?

The withdrawal of the Saturday 366 noted earlier will reduce the bus service to Scawby unless the Saturday 94/95 is enhanced.

Service 55

Service 55 currently links Normanby, Burton upon Stather and Thealby to Winterton on weekdays then continuing to Scunthorpe via Appleby and Santon. It's not intended to be the main service from Normanby, Burton Upon Stather and Thealby to Scunthorpe - that's the 60 - but seems to fulfil three 'markets'
Normanby, Burton Upon Stather and Thelaby to Winterton
Appleby to Winterton
Appleby and Santon to Scunthorpe
NLC state the 55 has "few passengers" "between Appleby and Scunthorpe", not mentioning the rest of the route, and is to be replaced by 'flexible' CallConnect and a fixed CallConnect service on Fridays between Appleby and Scunthorpe that will also include Dragonby. A drastic cut in traditional/fixed bus provision, but with no data provided on passenger numbers it isn't clear if it is a justifiable cut or not. It is a shame that the local links into Winterton, also useful for Humber Fastcat connections, will be left entirely to flexible CallConnect, and that a fixed CallConnect service can't be provided for these, but again no passenger number data is provided to review how justified this decision is.

I'm not a huge fan of flexible CallConnect replacing existing services - you can't just go to a bus stop and catch a bus unlike traditional bus services or indeed fixed CallConnect services (a traditional bus service using a CallConnect bus). I would rather CallConnect is kept just for gaps in the public transport network that could never be realistically filled by traditional bus services. However if services really are very little used then maybe flexible CallConnect is the way to go.

Isle Shopper

The 58 Isle Shopper that currently operates on Wednesdays and Fridays into Epworth from Wroot and Sandtoft, and which also provides an Epworth Town Service, is to be replaced with a Friday only fixed CallConnect service, with no details on the exact route provided. It is disappointing to see the fixed service being cut back to once a week, but at least a fixed service remains and I'm sure there will be a cost saving.


The documentation from NLC also reveals that CallConnect in North Lincolnshire had 3091 registered users in October 2017, with 2510 journeys. Usage "continued to grow", and "was increasing month on month in the Brigg, Caistor, Ridge, and the Barton and Ferry CallConnect areas".