Stagecoach Takeover Discussion

[Deerfold]

but aside from West Yorkshire and Oldham,

Ah, that'll explain why I haven't spotted the changes.

 

[CBlue]

The Cataenos offer easy disabled access through the front door - I'm not sure that Plaxton offer a similar product. I think Plaxton's tend to use lifts in window bays.

Plaxton have been selling coaches equipped with front door wheelchair lifts since 2005....

 

[LOL The Irony]

Plaxton have been selling coaches equipped with front door wheelchair lifts since 2005....

In fact, they're one of the few that do offer it, along with Caetano.

 

[cnjb8]

Plaxton have been selling coaches equipped with front door wheelchair lifts since 2005....

In fact, they're one of the few that do offer it, along with Caetano.

Yes, the former NX Elites with Parks had them. So do the Red Arrow Elites.

 

[stantheman]

What do Stagecoach operate in Edinburgh apart from the Biggar service 101?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What di Stagecoach operate in Edinburgh apart from the Biggar service 101 .

North to the Kingdom of Fife.

 

[Rod Harrison]

I wonder if the deal goes through, whether the competition authorities would take the opportunity to break up the monopoly that National Express have in the West Midlands bus market?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if the de goes through, whether the competition authorities would take the opportunity to break up the monopoly that National Express have in the West Midlands bus market?

Plenty of other operators in that area, both bigger ones (Diamond/Rotala) and smaller ones.

 

[carlberry]

I wonder if the deal goes through, whether the competition authorities would take the opportunity to break up the monopoly that National Express have in the West Midlands bus market?

As a pre-existing situation it's not something they would look into as the deal wont make any difference (other than Coventry).

 

[Eyersey468]

I think part of the problem for Flixbus is establishing a visible presence that attracts passengers. Where I have taken Flixbus services there have generally been more passengers on the equivalent National Express service.

I see National Express as being the only nationwide coach brand in England in a very short time frame with perhaps Citylink getting back onto Anglo-Scottish journeys but no more.

As a driver on NX services I agree that NX have more passengers than Flixbus, I was told the other day Flixbus only has 3% of the market in this country

 

[DJ_K666]

Didn't this question of merging NX and Stagecoach come up in 2009? NX were told to sell Dundee, which they've sone and Stagecoach were told to sell Warwickshire so I know that wouldn't go Arriva, and I know Go-Ahead are rumoured to be sniffing around so could we see the return of the Midland Red name under Go-Ahead?

It would certainly be consistent with keeping all Go-Ahead acquisitions within a 2 hour train journey of London (since David Brown does not drive). Would we see the hourly East Croydon to Milton Keynes train extended to Rugby once again?

Whatever happens, time will tell. It's been put back by 5 weeks now, I wonder if the CMA are looking at it, or they've hit some snag. One thing I do know is NX and Stagecoach are both drastically short of drivers,

 

[Busaholic]

Didn't this question of merging NX and Stagecoach come up in 2009? NX were told to sell Dundee, which they've sone and Stagecoach were told to sell Warwickshire so I know that wouldn't go Arriva, and I know Go-Ahead are rumoured to be sniffing around so could we see the return of the Midland Red name under Go-Ahead?

It would certainly be consistent with keeping all Go-Ahead acquisitions within a 2 hour train journey of London (since David Brown does not drive). Would we see the hourly East Croydon to Milton Keynes train extended to Rugby once again?

Whatever happens, time will tell. It's been put back by 5 weeks now, I wonder if the CMA are looking at it, or they've hit some snag. One thing I do know is NX and Stagecoach are both drastically short of drivers,

David Brown is retiring very shortly, I believe. In any case, I'd like to know how he'd get from London to Plymouth or Truro in two hours, cos I'll have some of that please.

 

[DJ_K666]

David Brown is retiring very shortly, I believe.

He is indeed. Not sure who will replace him. A clone or another Sellers or Ballinger or Ludeman, remains to be seen.

 

[Lynford1976]

He is indeed. Not sure who will replace him. A clone or another Sellers or Ballinger or Ludeman, remains to be seen.

Sellers? As in one of the Goons?

 

[DJ_K666]

Sellers? As in one of the Goons?

Heh nfortunately no. Bruce Sellers. As far as I'm aware he was never inclined to sit in a wheelchair and refer to people as Mein Fuhrer...

 

[Goldfish62]

He is indeed. Not sure who will replace him. A clone or another Sellers or Ballinger or Ludeman, remains to be seen.

It's a chap called Christian Schreyer as was announced back in July.

 

[Lynford1976]

Heh nfortunately no. Bruce Sellers. As far as I'm aware he was never inclined to sit in a wheelchair and refer to people as Mein Fuhrer...

If I remember correctly, Bruce Sellars was only involved in the buyout of Brighton & Hove from NBC. Are you thinking about Martin Ballinger perhaps?

 

[DJ_K666]

If I remember correctly, Bruce Sellars was only involved in the buyout of Brighton & Hove from NBC. Are you thinking about Martin Ballinger perhaps?

Yes. I worked 12 and a half years for Brighton and Hove until 2 years ago so I saw the end of Roger French's tenure and met David Brown. Bruce Sellers was there when privatisation happened. Martin Ballinger was an NBC acquaintance of Mr French and helped first with the initial buyout in 87 and later with the sale to Go-Ahead, much to Badgerline, and later First's chagrin. I think it was possible that Sellers and Ballinger knew each other.

I was 7 years old when that all happened so I can only go by third hand info from my dad, who was involved with National Express through South Downs at the time. From my point of view all that happened was the livery changed and his office moved two doors down at Pool Valley bus station (as it was then),

 

[GusB]

The discussion seems to have drifted away from the main topic. Could we get back on track please?

 

[Typhoon]

Stagecoach rumours in the financial press

Whispers are circulating that bus and rail group Stagecoach may have caught the attention of a private equity firm after starting £2billion merger talks with its larger rival National Express.
...
Senior financiers said at least one buyout firm could be circling the Perth-based company with a view to making a £500million cash offer.
...
But the identity of the potential buyer is a mystery. Dealmakers tipped Brookfield, the Canadian investment group, because it studied an acquisition of Stagecoach in the past.

Another obvious private equity predator is CVC Capital Partners.

CVC was involved in a failed £700 million takeover approach for National Express in 2009.

Now whether this has legs or whether it is just an attempt to inflate the Stagecoach price or push the deal through, I have no idea. But all seems to have gone quiet of late. Interesting comment about Stagecoach's current difficulties with running buses to their printed timetables in some parts - I wonder whether that is affecting National Express's willingness to pay the asking price? I don't like the idea of private equity personally because it normally means the business is lumbered with debt.

Full article (and a picture of 2 Stagecoach buses): STOCKS TO WATCH: Whispers are circulating that Stagecoach has caught the attention of private equity firm after National Express merger talks (msn.com)

 

[najaB]

I don't like the idea of private equity personally because it normally means the business is lumbered with debt.

Often, but not always. Depends on the company. Some are in it to asset strip and make a quick buck, others take a long-term view. I've no idea which camp Brookfield falls into.

 

[Mikey C]

The difference in valuation between Stagecoach and NEx in the original deal shocked me, I'm sure others are cranking the numbers to see how much Stagecoach is actually worth

 

[RT4038]

Stagecoach rumours in the financial press

Now whether this has legs or whether it is just an attempt to inflate the Stagecoach price or push the deal through, I have no idea. But all seems to have gone quiet of late. Interesting comment about Stagecoach's current difficulties with running buses to their printed timetables in some parts - I wonder whether that is affecting National Express's willingness to pay the asking price? I don't like the idea of private equity personally because it normally means the business is lumbered with debt.

There are printed timetables in some parts?

 

[Goldfish62]

There are printed timetables in some parts?

At bus stops.

 

[Typhoon]

There are printed timetables in some parts?

Thank you. Actually, I should have written 'printable'. I did pick up a (printed) timetable for newish routes (started early August), I was on a different route but never mind, I had been on the right ones enough times. It is pretty basic and apparently there are a few errors but I can live with that. Proof it actually exists is attached but such is their rarity it has been returned to the wall safe.
(Or you could consult the bus stop timetables as @Goldfish62 suggests, although they are stop specific in my area - Stagecoach SE seem to have updated a great many - but not the maps, which confuses visitors).

 

[MotCO]

The last I heard about this takeover was on 17 October when National Express was given until 16 November to make a firm bid. 16 November has been and gone, and I can't see any update on the internet. What is the latest position?

 

[ajrm]

The last I heard about this takeover was on 17 October when National Express was given until 16 November to make a firm bid. 16 November has been and gone, and I can't see any update on the internet. What is the latest position?

Extended again to 14 December:

https://www.stagecoachgroup.com/~/media/Files/S/Stagecoach-Group/Attachments/possible-offer-for-sgp/extension-of-deadline-under-rule-2-6c-of-the-code.pdf

 

[overthewater]

Judgement day come on Tuesday; I take it they have until 5pm or do they have to make the announcement when the market open on Tuesday?

 

[RT4038]

Judgement day come on Tuesday; I take it they have until 5pm or do they have to make the announcement when the market open on Tuesday?

May well be extended again?

 

[overthewater]

May well be extended again?

Wasn't this the last time it could be done and tomorrow something will have to happen?