Stations underground

[HSTEd]

As I understand it there is a legal requirement that underground stations for railways and related public transport systems are required to manned at all times while open to the public.

What defines whether a station is 'underground'?
Is a station like Farringdon underground in legal terms?

 

[petersi]

As I understand it there is a legal requirement that underground stations for railways and related public transport systems are required to manned at all times while open to the public.

What defines whether a station is 'underground'?
Is a station like Farringdon underground in legal terms?

Not sure about farringdon. But certainly if the station is in a tunnel the it must be maned when a train stops there. Example of non London underground station that has to conform is Essex road

Not sure if this is in the right forum there is a forum dedicated to the London underground

 

[MK Tom]

It's in the right place, the original question is clearly about all railways and not specifically LUL. I too am curious as to how this rule would apply to a partially or fully underground station on Network Rail metals.

 

[Busaholic]

Perhaps the word 'subterranean' would be more appropriate in the circumstances

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Perhaps the word 'subterranean' would be more appropriate in the circumstances

What about half and half stations like Green Lane ?

 

[HSTEd]

There are some stations which are below 'ground level' with restricted access which might cause problems in case of a fire - but which are not in any way 'underground' - Waverley fr example

 

[EM2]

The correct term is a 'subsurface' station, and they are required to adhere to various different rules and regulations than 'surface' stations. The FCC station at St Pancras is a case in point.
However, I have never managed to foind out exactly when a station becomes classed as 'subsurface'.

 

[jamesst]

What about half and half stations like Green Lane ?

In regards to Merseyrail underground, the fully underground stations Hamilton Square, James Street,Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street and Liverpool Central all have to be staffed at all times ,have a minimum level of staffing of all times and can't be opened without.
Conway Park,whilst not on the underground staffing roster, similarly needs a certain amount of staff to open.
Green Lane comes under out stations and is staffed accordingly.

 

[Bushy]

What defines whether a station is 'underground'?
Is a station like Farringdon underground in legal terms?

A subsurface station is defined in the Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations)(England) Regulations 2009

Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, Guidance Note 3: Fire safety on sub-surface railway stations quotes the 2009 Regulations and gives guidance on their interpretation

Application of Regulations
3.
(1) These Regulations apply to any premises where
(a) the premises are used as a railway station;
(b) members of the public have access to the premises (whether on payment or otherwise); and
(c) there is a railway platform in the premises which is an enclosed underground platform.
(2) A railway platform is an enclosed platform if the platform and the permanent way to which it is adjacent are situated wholly or mainly in a tunnel or wholly or mainly within or under any building.
(3) A railway platform is an underground platform if the level of the roof or ceiling immediately above the platform and the permanent way to which it is adjacent is below the level of the surface of the ground adjacent to any exit from the railway station providing a means of escape from the station in case of fire.
(4) A railway platform is situated mainly in a tunnel or mainly within or under a building if the platform and the permanent way to which it is adjacent are covered by any part of a tunnel or building for more than half the length of the platform.

Interpretation/Application
This provision describes where the 2009 Regulations apply. In effect they apply to all railway stations to which members of the public have access, if there is at least one enclosed underground platform.
The definition of an enclosed underground platform is a platform which is both enclosed and underground.
Each platform should be assessed separately and if any one platform is both enclosed and underground, the entire station premises will come within the remit of the 2009 Regulations.
A platform (in the context of the 2009 Regulations) is defined as:

• an enclosed platform if the platform and the track are:
  • Fully or partially in a tunnel; or,
  • Fully or mainly within or under a building.
• an underground platform if the roof or ceiling immediately above the platform and the track are below the ground level of any fire exit being in a tunnel or within or under a building if more than half the length of the platform and adjacent track are covered by a tunnel or building

Regards

Bushy

 

[Busaholic]

Great, knew someone would come up with the definition of sub-surface station, but we still don't have the answer as to whether they have to be staffed at all times. Logic would dictate so, but we live in an illogical world.

 

[HSTEd]

So if a station on a cut and cover tunnelled railway line has the section above the platforms left open it is not 'subsurface'?
That could potentially cut costs for such things quite significantly.

 

[theageofthetra]

I would imagine Stratford Intl could fall into this category?

 

[razor89]

Great, knew someone would come up with the definition of sub-surface station, but we still don't have the answer as to whether they have to be staffed at all times. Logic would dictate so, but we live in an illogical world.

Copied from the Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations)(England) Regulations 2009:

(2) The periods of duty of members of staff must be so arranged as to secure that not less
than two of them are present on duty in the premises at all times when members of the
public have access to the premises.

However, bigger stations will have more than two staff as a minimum requirement, as each staff member will have a designated evacuation role.

 

[Busaholic]

Copied from the Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations)(England) Regulations 2009:



However, bigger stations will have more than two staff as a minimum requirement, as each staff member will have a designated evacuation role.

That is very reassuring.

 

[starrymarkb]

New Street is classed as Subsurface.

Smoking was banned on Subsurface stations before the General smoking ban came in.

 

[adrock1976]

New Street is classed as Subsurface.

Smoking was banned on Subsurface stations before the General smoking ban came in.

It was soon after the Piccadilly Line Kings Cross fire in 1987 when smoking was banned at Birmingham New Street. Ironically, as Snow Hill station recently reopened and was partially underground, there was no smoking ban there at all.

In peace

Adam

 

[BurtonM]

I can think of a Merseyrail station that might be fully underground.
Before anyone mentions the Waterloo and City, seeing as it used to be part of Network SouthEast, it has opening times shorter than that of the Underground stations it served so it was always staffed in operational hours.

 

[CyrusWuff]

An example that may surprise some people is London Liverpool Street. Despite the light and airy concourse, it's below the level of the surrounding roads, and has an office block over the top of platforms 11 to 18.

 

[Bushy]

So if a station on a cut and cover tunnelled railway line has the section above the platforms left open it is not 'subsurface'?
That could potentially cut costs for such things quite significantly.

No platform can have more than half the platform length covered if the station is to escape the classification. Also note that although the station may not be classified as sub-surface the fire strategy will need to consider the risk created by a partially covered or below ground platform.

BTW sub-surface stations are still often referred to as 'Section 12 Stations' because the revoked 1989 Regulations were introduced by authority given under Section 12 of the 1971 Fire Precautions Act.

Regards

Bushy