Stations with mandatory assisted dispatch

[bunnahabhain]

The term assisted dispatch means something different to me. When I signed HSTs and 15x we had three types. 'Self despatch', 'assisted dispatch' and 'full dispatch'.

Assisted dispatch to me is where I take part responsibility for ensuring the doors are closed on my half of the train with the platform staff doing the other half, we did this at Loughborough and East Midlands Parkway, as an example. Full dispatch was used at Nottingham, Derby, Leicester, Sheffield and St Pancras. Here the platform staff were responsible for ensuring doors were closed with the guard just using the door panel. Self dispatch was used at Long Eaton, Beeston, Boston, Sleaford, Skegness where we had full responsibility to close all doors and check them ourselves.

On power door operated trains we merely just have 'Dispatched' and 'Self dispatch' to my knowledge. Assisted dispatch has only ever been used for slam door trains for me.

The are two places that I work where it is mandatory to dispatch a train according to the sectional appendix. Manchester Piccadilly and Birmingham New Street, both use RA indicators exclusively for dispatch.

 

[busestrains]

Is it the case that West St Leonards is mandatory assisted dispatch? I remember whenever i have been to West St Leonards in the past there are always dispatchers. It is not surprising as the platforms are extremely curved so it is difficult for the Guard to see the whole train. But i am not sure if it is for all trains on both platforms or just certain lengths?

 

[Boski]

It is indeed

Much appriecated, find it strange that it is and places like waterloo isnt which has more conflicting routes from starting signals.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Much appriecated, find it strange that it is and places like waterloo isnt which has more conflicting routes from starting signals.

Delighted to oblige

Yeah I’ve always found that odd myself, there’s plenty of mandatory dispatch places on the SWD with lots of conflicting SPAD risks (Woking, Guildford, Basingstoke and as you say Waterloo to name but four) but RA dispatch seems deeply alien (despite RA being fitted at all those locations). I can only assume this is historical. I’m a big advocate for RA dispatch to mitigate SPAD risk based on my own experience but there does seem to be a reluctance to authorise its use. If you have the indicators and the dispatchers why not use it?

 

[Boski]

Delighted to oblige

Yeah I’ve always found that odd myself, there’s plenty of mandatory dispatch places on the SWD with lots of conflicting SPAD risks (Woking, Guildford, Basingstoke and as you say Waterloo to name but four) but RA dispatch seems deeply alien (despite RA being fitted at all those locations). I can only assume this is historical. I’m a big advocate for RA dispatch to mitigate SPAD risk based on my own experience but there does seem to be a reluctance to authorise its use. If you have the indicators and the dispatchers why not use it?

They are using RA for the 701s when (if) they come into service so the reluctantcy to use it currently is even more strange

 

[TEW]

They are using RA for the 701s when (if) they come into service so the reluctantcy to use it currently is even more strange

Only at Waterloo, which will go over to RA dispatch for all stock. Reading will be RA dispatch by GWR staff too.

 

[Boski]

Only at Waterloo, which will go over to RA dispatch for all stock. Reading will be RA dispatch by GWR staff too.

Thank you for the info does that include 450s which will still be guard operated, suprised clapham isnt considering all southern trains are dispatched by RA even by SWR staff

 

[TEW]

Thank you for the info does that include 450s which will still be guard operated, suprised clapham isnt considering all southern trains are dispatched by RA even by SWR staff

Yes, the plan is all train at Waterloo will be RA dispatched. This will be in conjunction with the guard where they are still responsible for operating the doors though. 701s will be driver dispatch everywhere except Waterloo and Reading.

 

[Boski]

Yes, the plan is all train at Waterloo will be RA dispatched. This will be in conjunction with the guard where they are still responsible for operating the doors though. 701s will be driver dispatch everywhere except Waterloo and Reading.

Thank you very much

 

[Carlisle]

The yearly diversions when the route between Newcastle and Edinburgh on the ECML is closed (plus the ad-hoc diversions when it all goes Pete Tong).

They’re all dispatched by the regular Avanti platform staff .

 

[AlastairFraser]

What is the policy at Reading for XR? Assuming self dispatch for XR, then everything else RA because of the volume of passengers and complexity of traffic passing through.

 

[godfreycomplex]

What is the policy at Reading for XR? Assuming self dispatch for XR, then everything else RA because of the volume of passengers and complexity of traffic passing through.

CD/RA for all DOO (XR included)
RA for all guard operated 1-3
Buzzer for all guard operated 4-15
All passenger and ECS trains mandatory dispatch at all times

 

[dingdinger]

Delighted to oblige

Yeah I’ve always found that odd myself, there’s plenty of mandatory dispatch places on the SWD with lots of conflicting SPAD risks (Woking, Guildford, Basingstoke and as you say Waterloo to name but four) but RA dispatch seems deeply alien (despite RA being fitted at all those locations). I can only assume this is historical. I’m a big advocate for RA dispatch to mitigate SPAD risk based on my own experience but there does seem to be a reluctance to authorise its use. If you have the indicators and the dispatchers why not use it?

Woking Basingstoke and Guildford are not mandatory dispatch but quite often will be assisted dispatch (usually peak hours). Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth and SS High level, Reading and Waterloo are now the only mandatory dispatch stations.

 

[Bikeman78]

Is it the case that West St Leonards is mandatory assisted dispatch? I remember whenever i have been to West St Leonards in the past there are always dispatchers. It is not surprising as the platforms are extremely curved so it is difficult for the Guard to see the whole train. But i am not sure if it is for all trains on both platforms or just certain lengths?

Bishop's Stortford is nearly always staffed. However, one afternoon I got off a pair of 317s heading north and there was no one to dispatch. The driver got out and closed all the doors from one of the middle cabs. Then he checked that all doors were shut and walked back to the front and departed.

To be honest, I found the lack of DOO equipment at some West Anglia stations quite surprising. For example, at Ponders End the driver simply looked back from the cab window. Easy enough on a dry day but not so easy on a wet night to see what is happening 150 metres away.

 

[AlastairFraser]

CD/RA for all DOO (XR included)
RA for all guard operated 1-3
Buzzer for all guard operated 4-15
All passenger and ECS trains mandatory dispatch at all times

Oh OK, makes sense given Reading’s size. I wonder which other stations XR dispatch from manually though, must be a rarity for them.

 

[Amnesiac]

On LNWR you have Lime St, Runcorn, Crewe, Stafford, Stoke, Wolverhampton, New st (RA), Rugby, Watford Junction (10 only), Euston (RA).

Also dispatched at Nuneaton, but self dispatch in nobody on platform.
However, only Lime St, New St and Euston are true mandatory as the others you can permission to self dispatch from control (never had it myself though).

Then there's Milton Keynes, mandatory for Avanti but self dispatch for LNWR!

On WMR only Worcester Forgate is mandatory on platform 1 due to signal placement for Snow Hill lines. New St and Wolverhampton as mentioned above. Can't remember any others on other route's

Rugby we can self dispatch if required, same for Coventry.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Rugby we can self dispatch if required, same for Coventry.

I wouldn't self dispatch from Rugby, I don't sign Cov though. Same for Stafford and Runcorn, we are taught that it's mandatory and although control could request self dispatch, our depot do not do it

 

[Whistler40145]

Avanti dispatch all services at Preston

 

[LowLevel]

Avanti dispatch all services at Preston

Most if not all West Coast/Virgin/Avanti stations retained full dispatch of all services which is quite unusual compared to nationwide. It caused quite a kerfuffle when Cross Country moved to self dispatch if no one immediately available at Stockport.

I work in both the east and west of the country and in the east my "regional" services have been self dispatch at most stations for years (the exceptions are Ely, Peterborough and Doncaster).

 

[pompeyfan]

Woking Basingstoke and Guildford are not mandatory dispatch but quite often will be assisted dispatch (usually peak hours). Portsmouth Harbour, Portsmouth and SS High level, Reading and Waterloo are now the only mandatory dispatch stations.

Portsmouth Harbour isn’t/wasn’t mandatory dispatch according to the crew route maps dispatch guide at the back, only Portsmouth and Southsea on that route. In any case, there is always staff there so even if the road was off and you had a short enough train to see the whole length, the chance of there being no station staff present is absolutely minimal.

There always used to be several conflicting bits of information where guards were trained one thing, but the station dispatch plan said something else. Southampton Central for example the crew pack said go when safe to do so on all platforms if no one to assist, the station dispatch plan says mandatory dispatch on 1 and 4 for anything more than 5 coaches. Basingstoke and Woking is another example but only during peak hours.

 

[Amnesiac]

I wouldn't self dispatch from Rugby, I don't sign Cov though. Same for Stafford and Runcorn, we are taught that it's mandatory and although control could request self dispatch, our depot do not do it

Oh absolutely, I’ve never had to

 

[dingdinger]

Portsmouth Harbour isn’t/wasn’t mandatory dispatch according to the crew route maps dispatch guide at the back, only Portsmouth and Southsea on that route. In any case, there is always staff there so even if the road was off and you had a short enough train to see the whole length, the chance of there being no station staff present is absolutely minimal.

There always used to be several conflicting bits of information where guards were trained one thing, but the station dispatch plan said something else. Southampton Central for example the crew pack said go when safe to do so on all platforms if no one to assist, the station dispatch plan says mandatory dispatch on 1 and 4 for anything more than 5 coaches. Basingstoke and Woking is another example but only during peak hours.

You would hope everyone was being trained on the same information!
Do you know what the dispatch plan is for Clapham p11?

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Oh absolutely, I’ve never had to but I know our depot class it as self dispatch when no one is available, same as Birmingham International too

I think we class them as mandatory as it's simpler for training purposes and less chance of someone self dispatching instead of waiting for the station staff. Nuneaton is the only station I sign that's dispatched despite being a self dispatch station.

 

[LowLevel]

Oh absolutely, I’ve never had to but I know our depot class it as self dispatch when no one is available, same as Birmingham International too

How on earth can a depot class a station as self dispatch - surely company policy is company policy - the dispatch plan will be worked out between the station facilities owner and the train operator.

We wait for staff to be available at any dispatched station unless we've had a message to the contrary from control authorising self dispatch.

Self dispatch without authority is an operational irregularity.

If one depot at a company will clear off on their own accord and another won't there is a problem there.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

How on earth can a depot class a station as self dispatch - surely company policy is company policy - the dispatch plan will be worked out between the station facilities owner and the train operator.

We wait for staff to be available at any dispatched station unless we've had a message to the contrary from control authorising self dispatch.

Self dispatch without authority is an operational irregularity.

If one depot at a company will clear off on their own accord and another won't there is a problem there.

I don't think they mean that they actually class them as self dispatch, more that they are allowed to self dispatch under authority.

I'd still class such stations as mandatory, though I also sign stations which are mandatory with absolutely no authority to self dispatch at all such at Euston/New St.

I do understand why they would consider the inbetween types of station as self dispatch though

 

[Boski]

You would hope everyone was being trained on the same information!
Do you know what the dispatch plan is for Clapham p11?

Its mandatory no?

 

[Amnesiac]

How on earth can a depot class a station as self dispatch - surely company policy is company policy - the dispatch plan will be worked out between the station facilities owner and the train operator.

We wait for staff to be available at any dispatched station unless we've had a message to the contrary from control authorising self dispatch.

Self dispatch without authority is an operational irregularity.

If one depot at a company will clear off on their own accord and another won't there is a problem there.

Pretty much as SCDR_WMR said, my wording was terrible and definitely not very well thought out here, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Boski]

Does anyone know what the process is at glasgow central for doo trains?

 

[godfreycomplex]

Does anyone know what the process is at glasgow central for doo trains?

Unique (at least I haven’t seen or heard of it anywhere else). Dispatcher gives one bat to indicate station work complete. Driver does the rest.

AFAIK only Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley dispatch DOO trains in Scotland, and although RA indicators are fitted at both, they’re not used for that purpose at Central. Not sure at Waverley.

 

[Boski]

Unique (at least I haven’t seen or heard of it anywhere else). Dispatcher gives one bat to indicate station work complete. Driver does the rest.

AFAIK only Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley dispatch DOO trains in Scotland, and although RA indicators are fitted at both, they’re not used for that purpose at Central. Not sure at Waverley.

So the driver looks out the cab window on 380s and 385s? Very unique