Stockport-Denton line closed

[323235]

I believe a possession/overnight job is planned sometime over the weekend of 16/17th april to install the new infrastructure.

 

[Whistler40145]

Will this require diversions via Heald Green, or will the work take place when no services are booked through Stockport?

 

[trickyvegas]

Assuming they fix it this weekend, does anyone know if the service will be scheduled to run on either of the two Friday bank holidays this month - been dying to do this run for a long time.

Have checked National Rail Enquiries and the first Friday in May is the next service I can find.

 

[Whistler40145]

Any news of whether the Points @ Heaton Norris Jn have been replaced this weekend?

 

[Philip]

I don't see the point in routeing any trains through this line in future, why are people desperate to miss out Manchester Piccadilly? The connections lost would be a bigger hit than the bonus of maybe a few minutes made up going via Denton. Not even sure it would save a few minutes as the Denton line is very slow/lots of point work and junctions to pass which would mean potential delays.

 

[Whistler40145]

Philip, it is a useful bit of track for Freight & Charter Trains, they can reach Yorkshire avoiding both Manchester Piccadilly & Victoria.

 

[Philip]

Philip, it is a useful bit of track for Freight & Charter Trains, they can reach Yorkshire avoiding both Manchester Piccadilly & Victoria.

Yes but some people in the past have suggested running passenger services over this line, like a Crewe-Stalybridge/Yorkshire service missing out Manchester, or replacing an existing service like the South Wales or Chester to Manchester's or a London and running them either across to Yorkshire or into Victoria

 

[Whistler40145]

Spitfire are supposedly using the line on 30 April, with their 'Welshman' Charter to Tenby, it's booked via Manchester Victoria, probably no path through Manchester Piccadilly!

Also, Retro Railtours are using the line from Guide Bridge with a Charter Train to Southend in May, it cannot be routed any other way, unless it goes via Manchester Victoria, Warrington & Crewe!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes but some people in the past have suggested running passenger services over this line, like a Crewe-Stalybridge/Yorkshire service missing out Manchester, or replacing an existing service like the South Wales or Chester to Manchester's or a London and running them either across to Yorkshire or into Victoria

Because a lot of people travel through Manchester rather than to Manchester; giving them more direct bypassing choices will reduce congestion in Manchester itself?

Same reasoning as Thameslink and Crossrail in London.

 

[OxtedL]

Not at all same reasoning...

Most people on Thameslink / in the future Crossrail only go to/from London. Skipping Manchester is completely different and removes a major hub from a route.

 

[Whistler40145]

I realise people need to travel via Manchester, but I was meaning it's a useful bit of track that Freight Trains, Charter Trains & Diversions can use that don't require routing via Manchester Piccadilly or Victoria.

Sorry if I wasn't clear Peter.

 

[northwichcat]

Because a lot of people travel through Manchester rather than to Manchester; giving them more direct bypassing choices will reduce congestion in Manchester itself?

Same reasoning as Thameslink and Crossrail in London.

Good point. If there was a Huddersfield-Stalybridge-Stockport-West Midlands service using the line I'm sure it would be well used.

 

[table38]

Good point. If there was a Huddersfield-Stalybridge-Stockport-West Midlands service using the line I'm sure it would be well used.

My 1973 timetable has a late-night SX York to Aberystwyth service via Stalybridge and Stockport:

York: 21:50
Leeds City: 22:43
Huddersfield: 23:26
Stalybridge: 23:56 (divides) to Manchester Victoria: 00:25 and
Stockport: 00:18
Crewe: 02:25
Shrewsbury: 04:15
Welshpool: 04:46
Newtown: 05:23
Caersws: 05:33
Machynlleth: 06:04
Borth: 06:29
Aberystwyth: 06:54

 

[Nym]

Also for diverting trains away from Piccadilly for example when there is a MAJAX that closes Piccadilly, the trains need to be sent somwhere, and sending them into Victoria is a much better option than terminating everything at Stockport and sending pepole on buses.

This is one of those routes that could do with electrification for the amount of diversionary routes it opens up. No dowbt that capacity will need to be released at Piccadilly for engineering works on the platforms or kneck in the near future, so electrification of the Sockport - Denton line (aswell as some more convenient points layout at Heaton Norris Jcn) Possibly even re=instating the loop to access the East manchester lines, or a loop onto the East Manchester Lines near reddish to allow a basic 6 track layout via the East Manchester Lines into Piccadilly, it wouldnt' free up paths on the Stockport Viaduct, but it would free up some paths at Slade Lane, and if not, would provide some handy diversions, even in it's current state, into Victoria, especially if electrified aswell as the line through Ashton Under Lyne and from Guide Bridge to Stalybridge.

 

[OxtedL]

I'm happy to agree with this, but not necessarily the idea of regularly diverting services around Manchester - that's something that I doubt TPE or anyone are happy to do.

Where will these skipped trains go to? Manchester Airport? Waste of a service... West Midlands already has trains to Leeds.

 

[northwichcat]

Where will these skipped trains go to? Manchester Airport? Waste of a service... West Midlands already has trains to Leeds.

The furthest south you can go from Huddersfield on a direct train is Manchester Airport.

More people board and alight peak time Manchester-London services at Stockport than at Manchester, so if London travellers find it more conveinent to use Stockport over Manchester then why shouldn't West Yorkshire travellers?

 

[OxtedL]

More people board and alight peak time Manchester-London services at Stockport than at Manchester, so if London travellers find it more conveinent to use Stockport over Manchester then why shouldn't West Yorkshire travellers?

Well as long as you're sure...

 

[northwichcat]

Well as long as you're sure...

Well I'm sure that there's hundreds or even thousands of people every day at Manchester Piccadilly who are only in Manchester for the purpose of changing trains and as there's a shortage of paths in to Manchester it would make sense to move some of the passenger flows out of Manchester.

 

[Bomber]

This problem caused a diversion at the weekend for the Vintage trains steam hauled charter with 5043, Earl of Mount Edgcumbe, originally routed Crewe, Stockport, Stally and Huddersfield, had to go via Warrington to Vic but then had the added bonus of a blast up Miles Platting bank.

This one from the start. .............................................................And this one from about 25 seconds in

[youtube]BSleLIdQo-Q[/youtube] ... [youtube]PVNoIpXihPc[/youtube]

 

[flymo]

In the first clip, I swear I saw the 142 cower away from "The Earl" as it thundered past. Marvellous stuff.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any further news about the installation of the replacement pointwork?

 

[323235]

to be fixed over Easter I believe

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just had another thought about this line. When all the eventualities that make up the final decision making concerning the proposed Ordsall Chord are considered, if the existing First TPE service from Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes that serves Sheffield and Doncaster is precluded from reversal as at present at Manchester Piccadilly to enable future rationalization to the throat of the approaches to Manchester Piccadilly to have no cross line paths, it could follow the proposed paths through both Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria then to take the junction at Miles Platting towards Stalybridge as will be used by the First TPE services from Manchester Airport to both Newcastle and Middlesbrough, then to take the junction at Ashton Moss to join the existing line to Stockport from there. This would give another reason for retaining this line. However, I feel that it would be the easier option for First TPE to commence this service from Manchester Piccadilly rather than from the airport.

 

[northwichcat]

to be fixed over Easter I believe

Last year on Good Friday I think they almost got a full 150 running the Stockport-Stalybridge service. They've prevented that from happening this year by leaving the engineering works until that weekend.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just had another thought about this line. When all the eventualities that make up the final decision making concerning the proposed Ordsall Chord are considered, if the existing First TPE service from Manchester Airport to Cleethorpes that serves Sheffield and Doncaster is precluded from reversal as at present at Manchester Piccadilly to enable future rationalization to the throat of the approaches to Manchester Piccadilly to have no cross line paths, it could follow the proposed paths through both Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria then to take the junction at Miles Platting towards Stalybridge as will be used by the First TPE services from Manchester Airport to both Newcastle and Middlesbrough, then to take the junction at Ashton Moss to join the existing line to Stockport from there. This would give another reason for retaining this line. However, I feel that it would be the easier option for First TPE to commence this service from Manchester Piccadilly rather than from the airport.

It sounds like your proposing a circular route: Cleethorphes-Stockport-Piccadilly-Victoria-Stalybridge-Stockport-Cleethorphes. I think there might be logistical problems in doing that. Maybe it would work better if the service was split at Doncaster.

 

[radamfi]

Last year on Good Friday I think they almost got a full 150 running the Stockport-Stalybridge service. They've prevented that from happening this year by leaving the engineering works until that weekend.

But it might mean a full train on wedding day?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Last year on Good Friday I think they almost got a full 150 running the Stockport-Stalybridge service. They've prevented that from happening this year by leaving the engineering works until that weekend.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It sounds like your proposing a circular route: Cleethorphes-Stockport-Piccadilly-Victoria-Stalybridge-Stockport-Cleethorphes. I think there might be logistical problems in doing that. Maybe it would work better if the service was split at Doncaster.

I think that you have misread my thinking. as I did not mention Stalybridge for the Cleethorpes train. My route from Manchester Airport subject to the proposed Ordsall Chord goes via Piccadilly and Victoria stations, takes the junction at Miles Platting, then taking the junction at Ashton Moss, takes that line via Heaton Norris to Stockport station where it will take its normal route via Sheffield and Doncaster to Cleethorpes.....and vice-versa for the return route.

 

[northwichcat]

I think that you have misread my thinking. as I did not mention Stalybridge for the Cleethorpes train. My route from Manchester Airport subject to the proposed Ordsall Chord goes via Piccadilly and Victoria stations, takes the junction at Miles Platting, then taking the junction at Ashton Moss, takes that line via Heaton Norris to Stockport station where it will take its normal route via Sheffield and Doncaster to Cleethorpes.....and vice-versa for the return route.

I didn't mean to put Stalybridge in to my reply. I was just thinking 'Stockport to Stalybridge' at the time of writing.

With your suggestions the times would be something like:

Cleethorphes: 12:28
Doncaster: 13:42
Sheffield: 14:08
Stockport: 14:53
Piccadilly: 15:02
Oxford Road: 15:04
Victoria: 15:10
Stockport: 15:30 (assuming no calls at Denton and Reddish South)
Sheffield: 16:13
Doncaster: 16:42
Cleethrophes: 17:54

Problem 1: If there's a minor fault with a unit where does it get switched, considering maintainence is done at Ardwick? Is it sent between Cleethorphes and Ardwick ECS or do you force passengers to switch trains for what's advertised as a direct service everytime there's a minor fault?

Problem 2: Journey time from Manchester to Sheffield is too long, especially considering people who arrive at Piccadilly from Sheffield will likely go back to the same station to pick up the return service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I didn't mean to put Stalybridge in to my reply. I was just thinking 'Stockport to Stalybridge' at the time of writing.

With your suggestions the times would be something like:

Cleethorphes: 12:28
Doncaster: 13:42
Sheffield: 14:08
Stockport: 14:53
Piccadilly: 15:02
Oxford Road: 15:04
Victoria: 15:10
Stockport: 15:30 (assuming no calls at Denton and Reddish South)
Sheffield: 16:13
Doncaster: 16:42
Cleethrophes: 17:54

Problem 1: If there's a minor fault with a unit where does it get switched, considering maintainence is done at Ardwick? Is it sent between Cleethorphes and Ardwick ECS or do you force passengers to switch trains for what's advertised as a direct service everytime there's a minor fault?

Problem 2: Journey time from Manchester to Sheffield is too long, especially considering people who arrive at Piccadilly from Sheffield will likely go back to the same station to pick up the return service.

I am so glad that this matter has come out into the open. It is a combination of (1) The newly proposed Ordsall Chord with cross-Pennine services from Manchester Airport being sent via Piccadilly and Victoria. (2) The present "hoped-for" rationalisation for no cross paths at the throat of Manchester Piccadilly with no reversal for Airport services there and (3) The need (due to the Ordsall Chord plans) for the services using both Piccadilly and Victoria stations, to reach Stalybridge via Miles Platting junction rather than the existing route via Guide Bridge.

As I said originally, First TPE would prefer to start the Cleethorpes service from Piccadilly rather than the airport (as at present) once the Ordsall Chord is fully operational to save time and mileage, plus giving faster journey times to both Sheffield and Doncaster. Of course, there will be no direct airport service for Sheffield, but this will be an unfortunate fact of life.

 

[trickyvegas]

Problem 2: Journey time from Manchester to Sheffield is too long, especially considering people who arrive at Piccadilly from Sheffield will likely go back to the same station to pick up the return service.

Change at Stockport?

 

[northwichcat]

Change at Stockport?

What about people doing journeys like Rotherham-Manchester, won't the extra change put them off travelling by train?