Stopgap options to cover for delays to introduction of Class 810 for EMR?

[brad465]

Do you know if 350/2s can couple with EMR's 360s?

Why would that be necessary? If 350/2s were a stop gap option in some way, just run them on some diagrams and 360s on others.

 

[sad1e]

No chance that happens.

More likely TfW cascade 6x150 to Northern to release 170’s from their Sheffield-Scarborough services to fill the gap.

I still think 180’s or HST’s from GWR are most likely however.

Wouldn't the HST sets be a capacity decrease over 222s considering they are only 4 coaches. Wouldn't you want to get some more mk3's to make the formations 6 car.

And then you have the conundrum of making the 'Last HST from London' no longer the last hst from London. I wonder how people that booked that tour will feel.

 

[Class15]

And then you have the conundrum of making the 'Last HST from London' no longer the last hst from London. I wonder how people that booked that tour will feel.

I honestly don’t think EMR would bear that in mind!

 

[Iskra]

Is it? Is there a source for that? The idea of moving 170s away from Northern is a favourite on this forum, and always countered by people who actually have anything to do with those units.

I said it’s more likely. I didn’t say it was definitely happening. This is the speculative forum, and I am quite free to speculate without providing sources here thank you without your pseudo-moderation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Saturday at 18:53 ==

Wouldn't the HST sets be a capacity decrease over 222s considering they are only 4 coaches. Wouldn't you want to get some more mk3's to make the formations 6 car.

And then you have the conundrum of making the 'Last HST from London' no longer the last hst from London. I wonder how people that booked that tour will feel.

Possibly, but better than nothing and sets can be reformed if desired.

I don’t think the titling of historic railtours is taken into account when it comes to service provision.

 

[JonathanH]

I said it’s more likely. I didn’t say it was definitely happening. This is the speculative forum, and I am quite free to speculate without providing sources here thank you without your pseudo-moderation.

Sorry for asking about a source. I agree that was unnecessary, but a 'i think' in front of your assertion goes a long way for another user in making it is clear that your view is speculation, just as there is a chance that services to London are scaled back.

From my angle, I think that the idea that Northern's 100mph 3-car 170s will be released by bringing in 75mph 2-car 150s is unlikely for reasons people have previously posted many times around maintenance facilities in Hull and the capacity they offer, which was the point of my post.

 

[Iskra]

Sorry for asking about a source. I agree that was unnecessary, but a 'i think' in front of your assertion goes a long way for another user in making it is clear that your view is speculation, just as there is a chance that services to London are scaled back.

From my angle, I think that the idea that Northern's 100mph 3-car 170s will be released by bringing in 75mph 2-car 150s is unlikely for reasons people have previously posted many times around maintenance facilities in Hull and the capacity they offer, which was the point of my post.

That’s quite possibly the case, but I think my suggestion would be more likely than the complete withdrawal of two semi-fast inter-regional services between major cities, as the post I replied to speculated

 

[Killingworth]

I'll throw a frivolous suggestion into the pot.

Swop EMR's 222s for Scotrail's HSTs

It's as likely as some of the other ideas being put forward.

 

[Iskra]

I'll throw a frivolous suggestion into the pot.

Swop EMR's 222s for Scotrail's HSTs

It's as likely as some of the other ideas being put forward.

Indeed.

It would be an upgrade for passengers

 

[brad465]

I'll throw a frivolous suggestion into the pot.

Swop EMR's 222s for Scotrail's HSTs

It's as likely as some of the other ideas being put forward.

Get the Midland Pullman HST to run some services, after all, this is the route the original service ran on

 

[Helvellyn]

Given First Stirling are getting 5 x 6-car 222s the 4 x 7-cars and 1 x 5-car going seems the minimum that must be released. The 6 5-car 221s (221101-221106) could be short-term hired to work the current 7-car diagrams (being self-contained but it would be a huge capacity drop for first class unless they use the coach Virgin configured for flexible use as first in the peaks.

 

[Iskra]

Given First Stirling are getting 5 x 6-car 222s the 4 x 7-cars and 1 x 5-car going seems the minimum that must be released. The 6 5-car 221s (221101-221106) could be short-term hired to work the current 7-car diagrams (being self-contained but it would be a huge capacity drop for first class unless they use the coach Virgin configured for flexible use as first in the peaks.

There’s over-provision in terms of first class currently anyway, so that’s not the end of the world.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Lumo are not getting all their units at once. The release is being staged with only, iirc, the first in September.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Do you know if 350/2s can couple with EMR's 360s?

They can't... both 350s and 360s are listed as "multiple working within class" only.

 

[Steddenm]

Think I've found what they'll use...

Image shows steam engines and Mk3 coaches in East Midlands Trains livery, a photoshopped image from the Great Central Railway X page from 2006.

 

[43096]

I still think 180’s or HST’s from GWR are most likely however.

Where would those HSTs be maintained? EMR no longer have access to Neville Hill. The GWR fleet are also getting close to needing bogie and engine overhauls. In short, they are not a realistic option.

 

[MCR247]

Think I've found what they'll use...View attachment 181975

Image shows steam engines and Mk3 coaches in East Midlands Trains livery, a photoshopped image from the Great Central Railway X page from 2006.

I know your post was in jest but to be pedantic that’s actually the South West Trains livery

 

[Steddenm]

I know your post was in jest but to be pedantic that’s actually the South West Trains livery

Close enough!

 

[MCR247]

Close enough!

To be fair with some purple and grey vinyl you could get it to match the 222s interim livery

 

[sad1e]

Possibly you could have another operator like DRS run services out of St Pancras using their 57s and MK3s. Haven't they done similar for London to Birmingham in the past out of Marylebone when there were issues with the WCML.

 

[Nottingham59]

The only feasible solution I can see is:

1. Turn back one of the two Sheffields per hour at Derby;
2. Cut back the Nottingham service to 1tph,
3. Extend the Nottingham-Leicester stopper to Kettering to give a second slower path using the 360s.

With pricing action to limit advance fares to better match the reduced capacity.

 

[D365]

Possibly you could have another operator like DRS run services out of St Pancras using their 57s and MK3s. Haven't they done similar for London to Birmingham in the past out of Marylebone when there were issues with the WCML.

Unless LSL or, heaven forbid, WCRC provides a ’Pullman’ set, I’m not aware of a single operator that has sufficient Mk3 coaching stock and compatible diesel locomotives.

 

[sad1e]

Unless LSL or, heaven forbid, WCRC provides a ’Pullman’ set, I’m not aware of a single operator that has sufficient Mk3 coaching stock and compatible diesel locomotives.

If i remember correctly they used MK3's from Eastern Rail services when they ran out of Marylebone. Could that be an option again ?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If i remember correctly they used MK3's from Eastern Rail services when they ran out of Marylebone. Could that be an option again ?

The difference here is that the MML is a 125mph line, Chlitern isn't.

I think to match the timings of a 222 you would need 43s.

 

[londonmidland]

I’d probably go with any ‘spare’ Voyagers which aren’t being utilised. Not sure how much they differ from the 222s (I know they can’t electronically work together) but at least they’re 125mph capable and 5 coaches.

 

[cactustwirly]

Where would those HSTs be maintained? EMR no longer have access to Neville Hill. The GWR fleet are also getting close to needing bogie and engine overhauls. In short, they are not a realistic option.

Etches Park surely?
They have done maintenance on HSTs before

I think the 180s are more likely, or the DfT will get involved and force Scotrail to sub-lease back the 222s

 

[pokemonsuper9]

the DfT will get involved and force Scotrail to sub-lease back the 222s

What power does the DfT have over ScotRail, isn't it all devolved?

 

[Zomboid]

I imagine a suitably priced sublease can be arranged if necessary. Scotrails HSTs aren't being cascaded anywhere else.

 

[Snow1964]

Bit of a daft suggestion, burn the midnight oil, offer the train testers and crew trainers enhanced overtime and a bonus if they get 810 fleet certified and in service by the 222 off lease date

Maybe I am being far too radical, and powers that be don't see any urgency to get 810s in service sooner rather than sometime in next year or two.

 

[Iskra]

Etches Park surely?
They have done maintenance on HSTs before

I think the 180s are more likely, or the DfT will get involved and force Scotrail to sub-lease back the 222s

More radically: Derby Network Rail presumably still do HST maintenance (or is it done at Barrow Hill?), either way both are on the right patch.

 

[sad1e]

More radically: Derby Network Rail presumably still do HST maintenance (or is it done at Barrow Hill?), either way both are on the right patch.

Wouldn't the main problem be where to stable them on the St Pancras end.

I don't think Cricklewood depot is able to take HSTs anymore, Its been quite heavily rebuilt since the HST's were withdrawn.
Does Bedford Caudwell or Jowett have provisions for HST sets ?