Stopping patterns for intercity Euston-West Midlands services in the 1970s/early 80s

[Metroman62]

Weekends may have been different. From about 1977 to 1981 I travelled from Coventry to Berkhamsted. Usually around 5 on a Friday evening or 7 Saturday morning. On Fridays I seem to recall the Euston trains stopped at Rugby and Watford, but I had to get the all stations EMU. On Saturdays the Euston train I think called at both Rugby and

 

[jfollows]

I suspect you meant to say "Bletchley" at the end of your post!

On Saturdays the Euston train I think called at both Rugby and

1A05 06:29 SO Wolverhampton-Euston called at Rugby 07:24 and Bletchley 07:52. In the 1976-77 timetable anyway. (07:10 from Coventry)

 

[Taunton]

Birmingham International also abstracted traffic from New Street.

One of my earliest work memories is a visit to a traditional West Midlands metal bashing factory. I went by train and got my taxi from New Street. When I got off the train I was surprised that I couldn't find anyone else also going on the visit. When I arrived at the factory everyone else was already there, having got their taxis from Birmingham International.

For those who know it, the factory was quite like Pringles in the book "Nice Work" by David Lodge, adapted for TV starring Haydn Gwynne and Warren Clarke. The book and the TV adaptation both give an entertaining picture of what the West Midlands was like back then.

This is generally true about outer suburban stops for long distance trains. The classic example is Bristol Parkway, which seems to generate as much London traffic nowadays as Temple Meads.

I visit periodically from London premises in Tyseley, commonly thought of as inner city Birmingham. But it's better indeed to get a taxi back to International. A downside in the evening peak though is finding nearly all/all the seats taken by then.

The recent progressive withdrawl of stops at Watford Junction (back to this thread) has been a significant downer to business travel for those both living and working in a large swathe around the north and west sides of London.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is generally true about outer suburban stops for long distance trains. The classic example is Bristol Parkway, which seems to generate as much London traffic nowadays as Temple Meads.

Indeed. People often think of rail as city centre to city centre, but in reality it's normally suburb to city centre - most people don't live in city centres (but most people are going to them). Driving to Temple Meads is a nightmare, to Parkway much less so.

The recent progressive withdrawl of stops at Watford Junction (back to this thread) has been a significant downer to business travel for those both living and working in a large swathe around the north and west sides of London.

Indeed, that's a downside...though I guess Old Oak Common provides a sort-of replacement.

 

[ac6000cw]

Birmingham International also abstracted traffic from New Street.

One of my earliest work memories is a visit to a traditional West Midlands metal bashing factory. I went by train and got my taxi from New Street. When I got off the train I was surprised that I couldn't find anyone else also going on the visit. When I arrived at the factory everyone else was already there, having got their taxis from Birmingham International.

For those who know it, the factory was quite like Pringles in the book "Nice Work" by David Lodge, adapted for TV starring Haydn Gwynne and Warren Clarke. The book and the TV adaptation both give an entertaining picture of what the West Midlands was like back then.

Funnily enough, having read 'Nice Work' and also watched the TV version back in the late 1980s, I watched the TV series again a few days ago (the four episodes are around on YouTube).

Having grown up in the Black Country/Birmingham area in the 1960s/70s, I can confirm that (although slightly exaggerated) the locations, characterisations, accents and some of the attitudes are absolutely spot-on for the period and area (the fictional Rummidge = Birmingham) it's set in. An excellent book and TV drama series (which won a Royal Television Society award for best drama series in 1989).

Getting back to railway things, one thing I remember from train watching at New Street in the 1970s was all the Royal Mail traffic carried on the London trains - from memory the sets had at least one BG (sometimes one at each end, I think), and there were usually mail bags to load and unload on every London train that turned around at New Street (the turn arounds allowed enough time for this to be done). It was fun to watch the mail handling when a train was late and well loaded with mail bags...

But given the amount of manual handling and transfers involved in getting the mail from train to the sorting office, I'm not surprised it slowly withered away - it must have been a costly operation for Royal Mail.

 

[Taunton]

Indeed. People often think of rail as city centre to city centre, but in reality it's normally suburb to city centre - most people don't live in city centres (but most people are going to them). Driving to Temple Meads is a nightmare, to Parkway much less so.



Indeed, that's a downside...though I guess Old Oak Common provides a sort-of replacement.

I think it's only the rail industry that thinks it is centre to centre, because that is what they have done since Victorian times. Meanwhile the world moved on, at both ends of the journey. In my extensive travels out from London around the country I can scarcely recall a business meeting in the city centre anywhere. Thinking about it, it's notable how many such offices are closer to the city's airport than they are to the railway station.

Old Oak Common will be a failure for such traffic because it is too far in and has poor road connections - if you live in Rickmansworth or Borehamwood it takes far too long to get in there. The stop should have been put where it crosses the M25.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Old Oak Common will be a failure for such traffic because it is too far in and has poor road connections - if you live in Rickmansworth or Borehamwood it takes far too long to get in there. The stop should have been put where it crosses the M25.

Good point, an M25 Parkway would be a useful thing.

 

[Taunton]

Given that a new motorway junction has been put in on the M25 specifically to service lorries to/from the adjacent large HS2 worksite, it seems bizarre not to consider that site and access for a passenger station.

 

[Metroman62]

I suspect you meant to say "Bletchley" at the end of your post!

1A05 06:29 SO Wolverhampton-Euston called at Rugby 07:24 and Bletchley 07:52. In the 1976-77 timetable anyway. (07:10 from Coventry)

Thanks. In fact a chunk of my post was missing!

Yes the Saturday train called at Rugby and Bletchley, it was useful for me as it overtook a slow EMU around Wolverton which meant I could change at Bletchley for a quick connection to Berkhamsted

 

[nw1]

Snippet of the down late-morning service from the '75 TT Table 66.
View attachment 110314

It's a bit of an aside, but interesting to note the 20-min interval pattern on Saturdays on the 'locals' out of Euston compared to 30-min interval on Mon-Fri. It makes sense, as more people would want to visit London for shopping/sightseeing etc on Sat: I'm surprised such a pattern didn't persist into the 80s; I certainly never observed it on services into London (any terminal) in the 80s.

Also of note that the 'stopper' calls at all between Coventry and New Street. By the mid-80s this had changed to call at International only, with a separate half-hourly (IIRC) all-stations Coventry to New St and then, I think, on to Wolverhampton.

The pattern of the xx00 going to Holyhead or Blackpool persisted until at least 1981 (source: ABC timetable on Timetableworld; incidentally these also provided most Stafford services), but in the mid-80s the InterCity departure pattern out of Euston seemed to become more erratic; in fact there seemed to be a mid-80s 'de-clockfaceisation' on many IC routes (Paddington also). That's a curious anomaly: one thinks of clockface timetables becoming more and more frequent with time but in fact there was a period in the 80s when this trend was reversed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2022 ==

As has already been stated the WCML timetable was completely recast for electrification to Glasgow in May 1974. Off peak the down "flight" of class 1 trains from Euston was:

xx40 Wolverhampton first stop Coventry
xx45 Glasgow first stop Preston
xx50 Liverpool first stop Runcorn
xx55 Manchester first stop Stoke or Crewe
xx00 rotating Blackpool, Carlisle, Holyhead first stop Rugby
xx05 spare
xx10 Birmingham first stop Coventry

Sorry, just catching up on this thread. As indicated in my other post, this pattern persisted until 1981 (though not sure if the xx00 was an even three-hour rotating pattern by then). As noted xx00 also provided most of the Stafford calls, so it was clearly the 'local' service (relatively speaking!). Looks like there was a big change in 1982/83 as I remember first visiting Stafford then and noting that most London services that called were to/from Liverpool. Also, by then, not all Stafford-callers also stopped at Rugby. Would be interesting to learn the reasons for the change of timetable in the early 80s; certainly the clockface pattern started breaking down (on another thread the arrival of 110mph services was mentioned, but the change seemed to occur earlier than that, in 1982/83).

The same happened at Paddington around the same era; the 1981 timetable showed a regular 'flighting' pattern for HST services repeating every 2 hours, but again the regularity had been lost by the mid-80s.

 

[Magdalia]

The one day of the week when lots of Euston-West Midlands trains called at Rugby was Sunday, when the stopping service terminated there. All of the stations between Coventry and Birmingham New Street had no Sunday service, except for Hampton in Arden which had a few trains each way in the evening for end of weekend travel.

Getting back to railway things, one thing I remember from train watching at New Street in the 1970s was all the Royal Mail traffic carried on the London trains - from memory the sets had at least one BG (sometimes one at each end, I think), and there were usually mail bags to load and unload on every London train that turned around at New Street (the turn arounds allowed enough time for this to be done). It was fun to watch the mail handling when a train was late and well loaded with mail bags...

But given the amount of manual handling and transfers involved in getting the mail from train to the sorting office, I'm not surprised it slowly withered away - it must have been a costly operation for Royal Mail.

Do I remember right that the 1960s New Street had an underpass for the mail traffic?

New Street was probably the most famous location for the "No BRUTES past this point" signs.

 

[nw1]

Edited to add - Not sure when it went half-hourly as described correctly below (10 and 40 off Euston) but certainly by 1974, as the XX45 was being used for Glasgow by then, so it could have been from 1974. At the same time, the practice of sending the Euston to Birmingham trains to Manchester or Liverpool (started in 1967) was ended. With the Birmingham / Wolverhampton alternating pattern introduced. I think the Birmingham-Liverpool or Birmingham-Manchester timings were then taken over by trains coming from Bristol - but can't be sure. Presumably Coventry passengers heading north suffered a bit as a result.

This was the case I believe, looking at old timetables. There was a regular xx55 slot out of New St, formerly used by London services, latterly used by 'Cross Country', and alternating Liverpool (even hours) and Manchester (odd hours). They were mostly Bristol but as time progressed, services from the Reading direction also took these slots. Some of them originated from Birmingham, in hours when no service from further south was available (e.g. because it went to the north-east instead).

At some point, an additional two-hourly Manchester slot was added at 10-past-the-odd-hour, giving a roughly hourly service. (My first trip through New St was on one such service, the 1105 ex Portsmouth Harbour in late 1982, due out of New St around 1510).

By 1983/4 I was having first-hand experience of these trains and the xx55 slot was maintained, but I'm not sure if the regular alternation between Manchester and Liverpool was still fully in place. It was in some hours e.g. the 1155 New St-Manchester (0805 ex-Portsmouth) and 1455 to Liverpool (ex Plymouth, I think) but I also seem to remember the 1555 had become a Liverpool (1337 ex-Reading, originating from Paddington).

Like for the Euston services, the regularity was further lost as time progressed, with the regular xx55 slot gone by 1984/5 (some hours it was used, but not all).

 

[Magdalia]

The pattern of the xx00 going to Holyhead or Blackpool persisted until at least 1981 (source: ABC timetable on Timetableworld; incidentally these also provided most Stafford services), but in the mid-80s the InterCity departure pattern out of Euston seemed to become more erratic; in fact there seemed to be a mid-80s 'de-clockfaceisation' on many IC routes (Paddington also). That's a curious anomaly: one thinks of clockface timetables becoming more and more frequent with time but in fact there was a period in the 80s when this trend was reversed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2022 ==


Sorry, just catching up on this thread. As indicated in my other post, this pattern persisted until 1981 (though not sure if the xx00 was an even three-hour rotating pattern by then). As noted xx00 also provided most of the Stafford calls, so it was clearly the 'local' service (relatively speaking!). Looks like there was a big change in 1982/83 as I remember first visiting Stafford then and noting that most London services that called were to/from Liverpool. Also, by then, not all Stafford-callers also stopped at Rugby. Would be interesting to learn the reasons for the change of timetable in the early 80s; certainly the clockface pattern started breaking down (on another thread the arrival of 110mph services was mentioned, but the change seemed to occur earlier than that, in 1982/83).

The same happened at Paddington around the same era; the 1981 timetable showed a regular 'flighting' pattern for HST services repeating every 2 hours, but again the regularity had been lost by the mid-80s.

There was a lot of degradation of timetables in the 1980s, with the 1981 changes probably the most severe. This was driven by the need to cut costs and use resources more efficiently, especially HSTs. The Midland Main Line only got HSTs by squeezing the GW, ECML and XC fleets. A lot of this was done at quite short notice. This often led to breakdown of clockface timetables, especially at start and end of service.

 

[ac6000cw]

Do I remember right that the 1960s New Street had an underpass for the mail traffic?

Yes - at the western end of the station, as far as I remember. It led to a parcels/mail/newspapers transfer area south of where platform 12 is now (which back then was a non-passenger platform). So mailbags were transferred manually from train to BRUTE trolleys, then a train of them hauled by an electric tractor along the platform and down through the freight subway to the transfer dock, then transferred to vans for onward movement by road.

 

[jfollows]

Yes the Saturday train called at Rugby and Bletchley, it was useful for me as it overtook a slow EMU around Wolverton which meant I could change at Bletchley for a quick connection to Berkhamsted

Into 2A18, something like this: (it's a bit scrappy but you get the idea!)

 

[Haywain]

Given that a new motorway junction has been put in on the M25 specifically to service lorries to/from the adjacent large HS2 worksite, it seems bizarre not to consider that site and access for a passenger station.

But unlike Old Oak Common that wouldn't provide a connection to Heathrow Airport which, I think, is the idea of OOC.

 

[nw1]

There was a lot of degradation of timetables in the 1980s, with the 1981 changes probably the most severe. This was driven by the need to cut costs and use resources more efficiently, especially HSTs. The Midland Main Line only got HSTs by squeezing the GW, ECML and XC fleets. A lot of this was done at quite short notice. This often led to breakdown of clockface timetables, especially at start and end of service.

1981 (out of Euston) didn't seem too much of a degradation from what is described here, at least from what I can work out from the ABC timetable; nationally, perhaps the 1985 timetable was the low point before things started recovering again. However, for whatever reason the 310-operated locals no longer left Euston at even 30-min intervals by then (but it was still a repeating hourly pattern).

HSTs going to the Midland would also, I think, explain two Penzance trains a day going over to hauled stock for the 1984/85 timetable (I think this has come up on a previous thread quite some time back).

 

[hexagon789]

1981 (out of Euston) didn't seem too much of a degradation from what is described here, at least from what I can work out from the ABC timetable; nationally, perhaps the 1985 timetable was the low point before things started recovering again. However, for whatever reason the 310-operated locals no longer left Euston at even 30-min intervals by then (but it was still a repeating hourly pattern).

On the contrary, 1981 was a really "slow year". The Royal Scot had already had 8 mins added in 1980, bringing the schedule to 5hrs 08. In 1981 it was extended to 5hrs 26.

In 1974 the average journey time of Euston-Glasgow trains was 5hrs 08, in 1981 it was 5hrs 28.

Overall most WCML schedules had 4 mins added in the 1981 timetable.

1985 wasn't brilliant, but by no means as bad. Furthermore, every Euston-Glasgow was timed for 110mph so most were faster than 1980 at least but it wouldn't be until 1989 that services were properly accelerated on the WCML to take fuller advantage of the 110mph sections.

 

[Taunton]

Being (genuinely) by chance in central Glasgow at lunchtime on 6 May 1974, and having heard the morning breakfast radio news, I went over to Central station at 12.45 to see the "first Electric Scot" arrive from Euston. Surprisingly low key. Rolled in to the minute. Maybe a dozen spectators. One individual (presumably railway management) at the buffers with an SLR camera took a couple of photos. Actually it wasn't the first, as the morning Manchester train had preceded it.

I believe the 5 hour schedule was then found to be too tight. It was achieved, but only at the expense of a lot of regulation effort, which was apparently tedious, so it was eased out in the years that followed.

A key issue was the meshing in of the Birmingham services at Rugby with those from further north. This is a common timetabling issue, departures fanning out is more straightforward than achieving the same intervals on the return, especially trains which have been running for some hours. Bit of wheelslip over Shap and it knocks things at Rugby.

 

[hexagon789]

I went over to Central station at 12.45 to see the "first Electric Scot" arrive from Euston. Surprisingly low key. Rolled in to the minute. Maybe a dozen spectators. One individual (presumably railway management) at the buffers with an SLR camera took a couple of photos.

The 0745 ex-Euston was due in at 1255 (it made 4 intermediate calls); the first 5-hour scheduled "Royal Scot" was about 2-3 mins late - there's a photo of it at Euston before departing and arrived at Glasgow on Flickr and the caption mentions the delay.

I believe the 5 hour schedule was then found to be too tight. It was achieved, but only at the expense of a lot of regulation effort, which was apparently tedious, so it was eased out in the years that followed.

The 5-hour timing lasted until 1980 when it was eased by 8 mins.

 

[Andy R. A.]

I believe the 5 hour schedule was then found to be too tight. It was achieved, but only at the expense of a lot of regulation effort, which was apparently tedious, so it was eased out in the years that followed.

While the 5 hour schedule was generally quite hard to keep there were a number of occasions when it could be beaten by a considerable margin. 1M20 'The Royal Scot' 1010 off Glasgow due into Euston at 1510, on occasion managed to arrive 20 minutes before time. The train was booked into platform 7 after the 1455 Manchester had departed. When 1M20 turned up this early it was usually re-platformed into no.1. While these were exceptional runs there were many other times when the train ran in at 1500, just giving time for the 1455 to leave, and the 'banker' to be quickly moved out to the Backing Out Roads.

I remember one day catching the 1353 off Rugby (1A45 1212 Manchester to Euston). The train ran in four minutes ahead of time. 1M20 was running almost right behind it and passed by on the through road. By the time the 1353 was ready to leave the signal on the end of the platform was just changing up from double yellow to green. A fast run followed behind 1M20 with 1A45 running in about five minutes early, and 1M20 would've been around 20 minutes early on that occasion.

There were of course many other occasions when 1M20 arrived late, to varying degrees, through various problems en route.

 

[Pigeon]

Yes - at the western end of the station, as far as I remember. It led to a parcels/mail/newspapers transfer area south of where platform 12 is now (which back then was a non-passenger platform). So mailbags were transferred manually from train to BRUTE trolleys, then a train of them hauled by an electric tractor along the platform and down through the freight subway to the transfer dock, then transferred to vans for onward movement by road.

Yes. I used it a few times to get my bicycle from one platform to another. Odd place, like the inside of a very large and long public toilet with no actual bogs, strangely deserted and eerily quiet compared to the rest of the station. I seem to remember that the signs indicating which ramp led to which platform were a lot easier to see than the ones in the normal passenger area. "Go where the mailbags go", if you could find it, which was dead easy at New Street, was generally the easiest way to change platforms with a bicycle on any large station.

 

[nw1]

On the contrary, 1981 was a really "slow year". The Royal Scot had already had 8 mins added in 1980, bringing the schedule to 5hrs 08. In 1981 it was extended to 5hrs 26.

In 1974 the average journey time of Euston-Glasgow trains was 5hrs 08, in 1981 it was 5hrs 28.

Overall most WCML schedules had 4 mins added in the 1981 timetable.

Ah right, fair enough. I was more considering the frequency out of Euston and the maintenance of the 1974 pattern when making that comment, rather than looking at the timetables in depth. (The ABC timetable on Timetable World does not show full timetables away from the 'NSE' area, only a list of services from London to main stations showing departure and arrival times).

Were these slowdowns due to extra stops, recovery time, lots of freight services, or something else?

On a related point, 12.40 Reading-Stafford 15.39 was quite a slow schedule for an XC service one year later, in 1982, so perhaps generally this was an era of relatively slow schedules. Even slower was 14.00 Stafford-Reading 17.18 in 1983, though this was a Sunday schedule which have always been on the slow side

1985 wasn't brilliant, but by no means as bad. Furthermore, every Euston-Glasgow was timed for 110mph so most were faster than 1980 at least but it wouldn't be until 1989 that services were properly accelerated on the WCML to take fuller advantage of the 110mph sections.

Again my comments re. 1985 were related to reduction in frequency and a less 'clockface' pattern - and this was as much related to 'NSE' services as intercity services. In the 80s I generally 'rated' the railways by frequency of service, and the mid-80s did seem a low point by this measure. By contrast 1989 seemed quite a high point.

Was it 1989 when a clockface pattern came back, incidentally? Presumably once everything was 110mph then they could create a less complex pattern. I do remember full clockface coming back sometime in this period, for example for a while it was xx00 every hour Euston to Manchester. This was a bit of a 'blank' period in my WCML knowledge though, I didn't travel that way much from about 1987 to 1995 and by the time I did again, Virgin had taken over (though admittedly the early Virgin days still had the 'BR' feel with the 86s and 87s still very much present...)

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Being (genuinely) by chance in central Glasgow at lunchtime on 6 May 1974, and having heard the morning breakfast radio news, I went over to Central station at 12.45 to see the "first Electric Scot" arrive from Euston. Surprisingly low key. Rolled in to the minute. Maybe a dozen spectators. One individual (presumably railway management) at the buffers with an SLR camera took a couple of photos. Actually it wasn't the first, as the morning Manchester train had preceded it.

I believe the 5 hour schedule was then found to be too tight. It was achieved, but only at the expense of a lot of regulation effort, which was apparently tedious, so it was eased out in the years that followed.

Having a day of 'study leave' from school (back then we only got the day before each exam, no extended periods as some get now) I made my way to Glasgow Central in the afternoon and observed 'Electric Scots' for a couple of hours, one highlight being the parallel departures of 16.10 Euston and 16.10 Leeds, the latter of course a cl45 - I have a photo somewhere.

Re the 5 hour timing the first time I travelled on the 10.10 from Central that summer it effortlessly arrived in Euston at 15.01. Passing through Carlisle without stopping was a new experience.

 

[Bald Rick]

Good point, an M25 Parkway would be a useful thing.

Given that a new motorway junction has been put in on the M25 specifically to service lorries to/from the adjacent large HS2 worksite, it seems bizarre not to consider that site and access for a passenger station.

Not very useful for onward travel options unless you have a car...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not very useful for onward travel options unless you have a car...

That's rather the point.

 

[tbwbear]

A point on the 5hr to 5hr 8mins relaxation of the Royal Scot timings...

July 1980 Modern Railways, gives the cause as extra speed restrictions (greater wear and tear on track than expected after 14 years of electrification).

Of course, at that time, the headline London-Glasgow timing was supposed to soon pass to APT and be reduced to 4:15 anyway. Planned APT departures from Euston were to have been at 07:35 and 16:32 just ahead of the 07:45 and 16:45 conventional trains which would have been kept.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The relatively few WCML trains at Wigan and Warrington having been mentioned above, one feature I do recall from 1974 was thinking how poorly served Lancaster was and it was notable when travelling on a WCML train which did call at Lancaster, that it would typically be busier between Preston and Lancaster than any other part of the journey.

For London it was the three hourly Carlisle trains (5 per day) plus the Heysham boat train - timed for the overnight Belfast ferry but co-incidentally useful for Lancaster to London business trips, plus one down Euston Glasgow and in the up the Glasgow via GSW train which filled a four hour plus gap between the second (off pattern) and third Carlisle starters. The four times daily Birmingham trains all passed thorough on the middle roads with the exception of one down afternoon train, as did two (each way) of the five times daily Liverpool/Manchester to Scotland trains.
Only around half of the irregular Barrow line trains were to/from Preston and no pattern to these, and no Windermere trains served Preston.
Mustn't forget the morning Crewe - Carlisle and the evening return, nor Barrow's London trains, the sleeper, although uselessly early in the down direction, and the daytime train shadowing the Carlisle working it paired with a Preston.
All in all a pretty poor offering and well out of line with the modern 3 or 4 trains per hour each way between Preston and Lancaster

Oxenholme and Penrith saw even fewer WCML trains than Lancaster, in the main the Euston Carlisle and the Liv/Man-Scotland services (plus the Crewe), and the Windermere branch an irregular shuttle with occasional extensions to Lancaster (only)

 

[43096]

A point on the 5hr to 5hr 8mins relaxation of the Royal Scot timings...

July 1980 Modern Railways, gives the cause as extra speed restrictions (greater wear and tear on track than expected after 14 years of electrification).

That'll be the sound of BR's chicken's coming home to roost after they went with axle hung traction motors on the 86s.

 

[Taunton]

The relatively few WCML trains at Wigan and Warrington having been mentioned above, one feature I do recall from 1974 was thinking how poorly served Lancaster was and it was notable when travelling on a WCML train which did call at Lancaster, that it would typically be busier between Preston and Lancaster than any other part of the journey.

Always notable on the multiple Liverpool/Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh trains, introduced from a low base in 1974, and many of which did call at Lancaster, was how many got off the northbound trains there. I used these quite a lot. The university seemed a particular generator - ironically the WCML passed its entrance gates some miles south of the station, but there never seems to have been a proposal for a station there. Sunday evenings upwards of 100 might alight there.

I have to recall one Sunday evening when, to the sudden fascination of all in our carriage, one of those walking back along the Lancaster down platform to the exit was carrying a skeleton. Not a Halloween joke one, but a full skeleton. Presumably a medical student. Must have been placed in a seat during the journey. I wonder what happened when the gripper came along for tickets ...