Storm Frank: impact on West Coast and Highland Mainlines

[47271]

Does anyone know why Scotrail say they cannot run to Pitlochry and bus to Perth from there? This has been done in similar circumstances before. I was on one of the buses.
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Clydesdale. Strathclyde is a broader and vaguer term.

I don't know, but is the line also flooded by the Spey around Kingussie? If anything that often goes before the Tay at Dalguise, Kingussie station's well known for it?

 

[LeylandLen]

According to Radio Lancashire on 'traffic reports' before 7am this morning, there NO problems on the WCML !! Do they not look at Twitter ? @VirginTrains or the TPE feed (@NRE_FirstTPE) or by looking at service alterations on NRE website ? Do the TOCs and Network rail still issue press releases to the media ?

Id like to know what information Radio Cumbria is giving out about problems on WCML ! I will email Radio Lancashire as no one else seems to inform them !

 

[najaB]

According to Radio Lancashire on 'traffic reports' before 7am this morning, there NO problems on the WCML !!

Well, I suppose there were no problems in Lancashire.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

According to Radio Lancashire on 'traffic reports' before 7am this morning, there NO problems on the WCML !! Do they not look at Twitter ? @VirginTrains or the TPE feed (@NRE_FirstTPE) or by looking at service alterations on NRE website ? Do the TOCs and Network rail still issue press releases to the media ?

The NRE status page currently says "Minor delays on some routes" for Virgin Trains.
Oddly, it's "Major delays on some routes" against FTPE.

 

[47271]

Unless I've missed it, there hasn't been much on here about the sleepers. The Highlander is doubly upset by the closures.

It's quite confusing on RTT planned services for tonight with bits of normally scheduled trains still hanging around, but with the exception of Fort William which feeds in as normal, they seem to be consolidating Inverness with Aberdeen, and Glasgow with Edinburgh, if Edinburgh exists at all. Because both Highlander and Lowlander are going down the East Coast, both southbound trains seem to end up at Waverley at about the same time, so are they doing another consolidation there I wonder? I can't see that they could ever make that work for the northbound services however, and Highlander and Lowlander seem to have run north as two entirely separate trains last night.

It's intriguing, because if you were an operator very short of serviceable stock and making up formations on the hoof dependent on bookings, with the festive rush over, you wouldn't be entirely devastated by this enforced simplification...

I'm not being unduly cynical by the way, good luck to them if it helps them get on top of things a bit.

 

[cf111]

The extra 80 miles* (you're not going to cut out the Perth, Gleneagles, Stirling and Falkirk stops are you?) would add 90-120 minutes or so of journey time, messing immensely with the staffing of the train.

And you'd have to find paths on the route too.

Much less of an issue with the sleeper

*if I;ve got my calculations right?'

There isn't that much slack on the route either, I did Inverness-Aberdeen return yesterday and was held at the Forres Loop both times to let freight (the Tesco train which normally runs up the HML) get past us.

 

[IanXC]

Unless I've missed it, there hasn't been much on here about the sleepers. The Highlander is doubly upset by the closures.

It's quite confusing on RTT planned services for tonight with bits of normally scheduled trains still hanging around, but with the exception of Fort William which feeds in as normal, they seem to be consolidating Inverness with Aberdeen, and Glasgow with Edinburgh, if Edinburgh exists at all. Because both Highlander and Lowlander are going down the East Coast, both southbound trains seem to end up at Waverley at about the same time, so are they doing another consolidation there I wonder? I can't see that they could ever make that work for the northbound services however, and Highlander and Lowlander seem to have run north as two entirely separate trains last night.

It's intriguing, because if you were an operator very short of serviceable stock and making up formations on the hoof dependent on bookings, with the festive rush over, you wouldn't be entirely devastated by this enforced simplification...

I'm not being unduly cynical by the way, good luck to them if it helps them get on top of things a bit.

I think a couple of nights last week they operated as one service from Inverness, presumably joining the Aberdeen portion and calling at all the intermediate stops to Edinburgh.

However certainly the last few days there has been separate Inverness and Aberdeen portions, with the southbound Inverness being significantly behind the Aberdeen, but the northbound setting off immediately before the Aberdeen and passing through Aberdeen approximately 20-30 minutes before the Aberdeen arrives.

 

[BRX]

Am on an inv-abd scotrail service and just passed the late running sleeper at nairn. It looked like the normal formation of 7 or 8 coaches. Looks like we will pass the Tesco train at Forres.

 

[47271]

I think a couple of nights last week they operated as one service from Inverness, presumably joining the Aberdeen portion and calling at all the intermediate stops to Edinburgh.

However certainly the last few days there has been separate Inverness and Aberdeen portions, with the southbound Inverness being significantly behind the Aberdeen, but the northbound setting off immediately before the Aberdeen and passing through Aberdeen approximately 20-30 minutes before the Aberdeen arrives.

Thanks Ian, I've checked quickly for last night and this seems to be exactly what happened, give or take some odd timekeeping here and there. I see that the two southbound trains left Edinburgh at very different times, so it looks like they are running a normal service now, albeit with many diversions and unavoidably missed stops.

 

[BRX]

I didn't know the Inverness/Aberdeen line was still worked with physical tokens. Spent a couple of days in Elgin W signal box more than twenty years ago but I'd have thought it would all be gone by now.

The process of crossing with the Tesco train at Forres was quite a time consuming operation.

 

[47271]

I didn't know the Inverness/Aberdeen line was still worked with physical tokens. Spent a couple of days in Elgin W signal box more than twenty years ago but I'd have thought it would all be gone by now.

The process of crossing with the Tesco train at Forres was quite a time consuming operation.

We're both OT, but yes, it is a bit of time warp here and there.

If ever you want to view a stretch of double track mainline with jointed track on both sides and (apparently) working telegraph lines, then look at Insch to Kennethmont. Certainly it was like that when I last drove alongside a couple of years ago. It struck me that it would make a much better period film location than preserved railways pretending to be main lines in the 1950s or whatever!

 

[Solent&Wessex]

XC at Edinburgh saying they are today only accepting Route Any Permitted tickets, no VTWC or TPE only valid on their trains now. VTEC still taking these.

Interestingly, this fact has not been communicated to other TOC staff who are still being told any ticket, any operator, any route is ok.

I was told earlier today that VTEC were also likely to be withdrawing cross acceptance of TOC specific or Advance tickets from the North West / Midlands, with Any Permitted or Via York tickets likely being required.

I didn't think TOCs has a choice during CSL2 situations, it doesn't seem to still in that mode though as the temp timetable is running. Could anyone confirm?

I suspect it probably isn't in CSL2 stage as the situation has settled down (albeit not to normal state) and a temporary timetable of trains and buses will become the norm for a few weeks. Current advice seems only to run to 8th January, so expect changes after this date.


EDIT - IMAGE ATTACHED IF A MESSAGE JUST RECEIVED

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect it probably isn't in CSL2 stage as the situation has settled down (albeit not to normal state) and a temporary timetable of trains and buses will become the norm for a few weeks. Current advice seems only to run to 8th January, so expect changes after this date.

As a passenger I find this unacceptable - how are we supposed to plan properly if we are to get one day's notice or less of the changes to acceptance?

What a mess the fragmented industry has become.
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Thinking on, in my view there should be full acceptance via routes taking similar time as the original one (so far as possible) at VTWC's cost for all tickets purchased before the disruption started. It would be quite reasonable, of course, for this not to be provided for tickets purchased after the disruption was known about, as you could just purchase one for the other route.

As for Advances, with these increasingly becoming the norm, treating them as some kind of Third Class is totally unacceptable. Effectively, the railway has started behaving rather like Ryanair.

 

[chiltern trev]

According to Radio Lancashire on 'traffic reports' before 7am this morning, there NO problems on the WCML !! Do they not look at Twitter ? @VirginTrains or the TPE feed (@NRE_FirstTPE) or by looking at service alterations on NRE website ? Do the TOCs and Network rail still issue press releases to the media ?

Id like to know what information Radio Cumbria is giving out about problems on WCML ! I will email Radio Lancashire as no one else seems to inform them !

BBC Radio Cumbria do a good job.

We live near Carlisle and listen to BBC Radio Cumbria a lot.

The Lamington incident appears on nearly every travel update and the amount of information depends on who is presenting the travel update, the time of day and the amount of time for the slot.

The info currently presented has several of the following:
• WCML closed between Carlisle and Scotland
• WCML closed between Carlisle ad Glasgow and Edinburgh
• Buses replace trains between Lockerbie and Edinburgh
• Buses replace trains between Carlisle and Glasgow
• Buses replace trains between Carlisle and Edinburgh
• Virgin running a restricted service between Carlisle and Glasgow via a diversionary route and taking 90 minutes longer – sometime it mentions about 6 per day each – sometimes it mentions the route is via Dumfries
• Every other train to/from London is cancelled
• Trains to/from Birmingham and starting/terminating at Preston
• River bridge damage – sometimes Clyde river bridge – sometimes Lamington – sometimes between Lockerbie and Carstairs or Motherwell
• This impact is until at least the end of January

And of course check before you travel

So good coverage but given the size of the Nationrail website info at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/117252.aspx the info is reduced.

But you cannot fail to miss that there are big problems!

What has not been covered much is the long distance London <> Scotland passenger to go via the ECML as the focus is on journeys starting and ending in Cumbria and also Lancaster (covered by the southern BBC Radio Cumbria transmitter) and Dumfries/Galloway covered by the northern BBC Radio transmitter (at Caldbeck).


A Virgin spokesperson was on this morning as there had been a question about Advance fares not being available between Carlisle and Scotland. The Virgin answer was that the timetable/ticketing system would not allow advance fares (or the VT (or TIC) only fares) as the trains were not in the timetable and thus a fare could not be linked to a train and hence only the open full price type tickets were available, and also there were a lot of passengers who had bought tickets before the problem and there were only 6 diversionary trains each way and thus not the capacity for more passengers and his advice was not to travel.

 

[Zoidberg]

Virgin to run hourly shuttle service from Glasgow to Carlisle via Dumfries. Hope it eases people's pain.

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-35240697

Virgin Trains has said an hourly rail service between Glasgow and Carlisle will operate from Saturday.

The west coast main line has been closed since Storm Frank damaged the Lamington Viaduct in South Lanarkshire.

Virgin said trains will run on a shuttle service via Dumfries, with passengers changing at Carlisle to complete their journey.

Network Rail has indicated that the work at Lamington could take until the end of January.

Virgin has been operating an irregular rail service on the Dumfries line alongside a bus replacement service, but Saturday will see the introduction of a formal, temporary timetable.

Trains will leave Glasgow at 22 minutes past the hour, and leave Carlisle on the hour.

The service will operate 07:00-19:00 on weekdays and Saturdays with a later start, still to be confirmed, on Sundays.

Virgin said it hopes to resume normal operation on the West Coast Main Line from 1 February, subject to Network Rail completing repair work.

 

[sdrennan]

Nothing on real Train Times yet.
I wonder what the arrival times are and how they align with the departures/arrivals to / from the south

 

[pdeaves]

All,

I tried searching the many posts in the Storm Frank thread, but perhaps am using the wrong search terms.

My question is this: is any passenger operator running through the affected area?

Common sense tells me 'no'. The NRE disruption page says 'no'. Realtimetrains http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LOC/2016/01/06/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt suggests that Transpennine Express is still happily trundling up and down between Glasgow/Edinburgh and Carlisle/places south.

Thanks!

 

[Darandio]

Realtimetrains http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LOC/2016/01/06/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt suggests that Transpennine Express is still happily trundling up and down between Glasgow/Edinburgh and Carlisle/places south.

It doesn't, look at the services and notice there is nothing reported north of Lockerbie.

 

[PHILIPE]

Nothing on real Train Times yet.
I wonder what the arrival times are and how they align with the departures/arrivals to / from the south

Because they have only decided today and probably still processing them. Could be validation from Network Rail awaited. It isn't that they've had the same time as a WTT train to process. Everybody expects RTT to be showing everything yesterday so must give a thought to the pressure Train Planners are to get things in place at sometimes short notice.

 

[pdeaves]

Ah, so TPE is partially cancelled to the north? I confess I just saw the nice bold times on the right and drew the wrong conclusion.

Thanks.

 

[Darandio]

Yes, Edinburgh services terminate at Lockerbie, Glasgow ones at Carlisle.

 

[PHILIPE]

Many things don't get into RTT if at short notice. The important thing is they are reflected in Journey Planner. The trains are quoted there but there is a note saying "Disruption" which links you to details.

 

[pdeaves]

Makes sense now. Thanks.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are TPE still running a limited service to Edinburgh via the ECML? A sign of things to come...

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Are TPE still running a limited service to Edinburgh via the ECML? A sign of things to come...

No. Insufficient rolling stock or crews being the principle issues.

 

[eslcma]

Looks like a fun bus service all round in the North this weekend

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/currentAndFuture.aspx?TravelDate=09/01/2016&TOC=gr

 

[D1009]

Because they have only decided today and probably still processing them. Could be validation from Network Rail awaited. It isn't that they've had the same time as a WTT train to process. Everybody expects RTT to be showing everything yesterday so must give a thought to the pressure Train Planners are to get things in place at sometimes short notice.

Absolutely. I'd have thought an hourly VT shuttle service in addition to the Scotrail service and the freight would be pushing line capacity. I notice that many of today's shuttles have lengthy stops at Kilmarnock.

 

[The Prisoner]

"Traveling" Warrington Bank Quay - Edinburgh on a Virgin Trains 1st advance this Friday, back Monday.

Gone from pretty much all Train Operating Companies accepting them to pretty much nobody inside of a few days.

VT West Coast unable to confirm tonight whether First Transpennine Ex (Warrington Central - York) & VTEC (York - Edinburgh) will accept these on Friday.

Likely to have to cancel and refund them to buy Off Peak tickets in standard to travel via the East Coast and avoid several days on a bus.

VT East Coast are now not allowing VT West Coast tickets to travel Glasgow Central - Edinburgh - London. There is an hourly shuttle starting on Monday Carlisle - Glasgow Central, but until then there are some big gaps in that service relegating most to the bus of doom.

Observations in no particular order:

• The two Virgin companies not working so well together
• Had the Government not ex communicated the West Coast from the Cross Country network surely there would be a remotely integrated approach to this situation?
• VT West Coast's twitter feed shows a thinly veiled contempt that other TOCs have stopped accepting their tickets
• The TOCs who have stopped accepting VT advance tickets did so as they claimed their services were overcrowded, but with the children back at school and holidays over I'd be interested to see just how busy they really are
• Total disregard from VT West Coast for anyone traveling to Edinburgh. The Euston - Midlands - Scotland services terminating short @ Preston (someone will probably tell me it's to free the Carlisle - Glasgow shuttle up) means Preston & Carlisle changes for a 2.5 hour bus - utterly feeble. Running a Preston - Edinburgh shuttle (via the East Coast) even every 2 hours would alleviate so many issues

I am a fan of the TOC/private system as a rule, but Lamington has shown up some very serious flaws.

 

[D1009]

All,

I tried searching the many posts in the Storm Frank thread, but perhaps am using the wrong search terms.

My question is this: is any passenger operator running through the affected area?

Common sense tells me 'no'. The NRE disruption page says 'no'. Realtimetrains http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/LOC/2016/01/06/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt suggests that Transpennine Express is still happily trundling up and down between Glasgow/Edinburgh and Carlisle/places south.

Thanks!

RTT only reflects what is in the internal systems. In this case I reckon no-one's had time to input the WTT services as terminating at Carlisle.

 

[Zoidberg]

My

Observations in no particular order

What's

WBQ
EDB
WAC
YRK
GLC
LON
CAR

?

Yes, I know, does everyone reading this?