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Sunderland Station

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Seahamlad06

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Evening chaps, long, long time since I posted but I often lurk and find some of the chat fascinating and very informative, especially the history stuff. Anyway I'm driven to post once more with a request. As a child growing up in Sunderland I vaguely recall the second, now disused, bay platform and wondered if anyone here had any info on when it closed to passenger? Pictures would be a bonus but any gen would be very much appreciated!

Thanks in advance.

Anth
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Seahamlad06

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Yes I meant the island, got my terminology all wrong! Thanks for the reply, I'll check the site out.

I remember seeing old trollies and whatnot on it in the 80s shame it wasn't reinstated when they 'renovated' the station for the metro!
 

dysonsphere

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Do you mean bay platform or island platform?

If the latter, around 1965 according to this webpage (that's an absolute belter of a website by the way) - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/sunderland_central/ (It doesn't allow copy and pasting as far as I can tell, sorry; it's just beneath the first map.)

An image of it's final passenger years is here - http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/sunderland_central/index13.shtml. I believe the LED art thingy now occupies its site.
Odd I was able to copy and paste (using firefox)

The 1965-6 reconstruction gave Sunderland a dispiritingly bland entrance building, reflecting the new British Rail ‘Corporate Identity’ philosophy, and what Fawcett accurately describes as a ‘joyless dungeon’ at platform level, artificially lit beneath a steel and concrete deck with shops at ground level. Remarkably for a town of its size (over 200,000) by 1965 Sunderland had only one railway route passing through it - Newcastle to Middlebrough – and all passenger trains could be handled on the two faces of the eastern island platform. The western platform was retained for parcels traffic. The new entrance building on the south side of the station opened on 4 November 1965.

In 2002 Metro services from Pelaw were extended through Sunderland and onward to South Hylton, largely on the alignment of the former line from Leamside and Penshaw. The unique situation was in place for both light and heavy rail to share the same tracks and call at the same platforms; Northern Rail trains between Newcastle and Middlesbrough use the northern end of the island platforms’ two faces, while Metro trains use the southern end. Some ‘restoration’ of the station building was attempted, but at platform level the station remained one of the most unlovely in the country – rivalled by Birmingham New Street, similarly deprived of daylight.

Nexus, the operator of the Tyne and Wear Metro, announced a £7 million refurbishment platform areas at Sunderland in 2006 to be funded by the Department for Transport in a scheme in which the money ‘saved’ by reducing a subsidised local Northern Trains service in favour of Metro was converted into a lump sum for capital investment. Nexus does not own or manage the station - it is owned by Network Rail and managed by Northern - but wanted to invest as the major operator. Refurbishment began in January 2008 and was completed in July 2010. Nexus appointed Sadler Brown Architecture to develop the design, led by Arup Consulting Engineers which incorporated the work of three artists, Jason Bruges Studio, Julian Germain and Morag Morrison.
Jason Bruges Studio has created a 460ft light wall with individual LED units containing an animated display. Julian Germain is providing a sequence of 41 photographs of everyday items ‘lost’ in a Metro environment, while Morag Morrison is designing coloured glass wall panels for buildings along the island platform.The project also saw an entirely new floor, ceilings and lighting, substantial improvements to existing walls and significant reorganisation of buildings and waiting areas on the platforms.

Would that be the offending text
 
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55z

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Sunderland station is classed as an underground station both platforms are signalled for bi-direction running. Metro trains tend to use platforms 2 & 3 whilst Northern use platforms 1 & 4, Grand Central use either face of platforms. The east side platforms are 1 & 2 with the west side platforms 3 & 4. Photo of a 180 at Sunderland on Thursday on the 1518 to London King's Cross.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/fenaybridge/16270524997/
 

83G/84D

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I was there a week ago and upon approaching the station could hear the distinctive noise of an HST and just managed to get down to platform level to see the GC HST before it left.

It was a service from London and the time was around 1645 hrs, where do terminating GC trains go prior to the return journey or for overnight stabling?
 

s'land

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I was there a week ago and upon approaching the station could hear the distinctive noise of an HST and just managed to get down to platform level to see the GC HST before it left.

It was a service from London and the time was around 1645 hrs, where do terminating GC trains go prior to the return journey or for overnight stabling?

One train a day stables at Ryhope Grange junction sidings, they get serviced at Heaton, i'm not sure if they still stable at Pelaw.
 

edwin_m

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Are the two remaining platform tracks up against the retaining walls on each side? I think the recent rebuilding would have filled in the trackbeds between the two previous narrow islands to create one wide island, but the linked sites don't give an information and I'm too far away to check!
 

swt_passenger

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Are the two remaining platform tracks up against the retaining walls on each side? I think the recent rebuilding would have filled in the trackbeds between the two previous narrow islands to create one wide island, but the linked sites don't give an information and I'm too far away to check!

The glass wall artwork alongside the down (northbound) platform 3/4 is completely hiding the second disused island. From what I can remember the in use island was widened slightly towards the west, which is why there is no longer space for two tracks between the two islands.

The up platform track is therefore against the east side retaing wall of the original cutting, but the down track is basically running through the middle of the overall site.
 
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wensley

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I was there a week ago and upon approaching the station could hear the distinctive noise of an HST and just managed to get down to platform level to see the GC HST before it left.

It was a service from London and the time was around 1645 hrs, where do terminating GC trains go prior to the return journey or for overnight stabling?

1N90 runs to Pelaw, changes ends in the Loop then runs back into Sunderland for 1A65.

1N92 runs out to Ryhope Grange, changes ends on the Up Line and crosses back over onto the Down Line and heads back into the station for 1A66.

1N93 runs up to Pelaw, changes ends in the Loop then runs back into Sunderland for 1A69.
This is the service you saw, arr. 1639 then ECS runs out and forms 1A69 dep. 1729

1N94 and 1N96 go direct ECS to Heaton having termianted at Sunderland.

This varies slighly at weekends, and on the tightest turnarounds the unit will be booked to run into Sunderland South Tunnel with a Driver in either end and run back into the station.

The biggest issue is the frequency of the Metro service which means all of the units have to shunt to clear the paltforms.
 
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MidnightFlyer

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When did they build the current structure above the station? I can't see any reference in the link I posted above.
 

swt_passenger

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Is this the glass art work referred to?

Yes, that's it. The loco in your pic is running between the widened eastern island and the original west side island. If you were to assume the four track original layout as having platforms 1-4 from east to west, then trains currently run through on the lines that once served platforms 1 and 3.

Hope that makes sense.
 

Poolie

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In a way, shows the short sightedness of so called planners. Who would have predicted the Metro extending, Grand Central and coal/biomass freight. Still a bit of a bottleneck at Hartlepool. Would love to see the second platform back in use.<D
 

Murph

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Looking at the disused stations site, it strikes me that this was another classic example of 1960s architectural vandalism. Equivalent to the vandalism at Euston, just on a smaller scale. A reasonably ornate and attractive station with plenty of architectural merit that could have been rejuvenated instead of replaced by a modern bland blob.
 

Seahamlad06

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Absolutely! The clock tower was a beautiful strupture. The 60s seemed plagued with architecturearchitectural vandalis, Sunderland also lost a an old town hall around the time the same time to be replaced by the monstrous civic centre you see today.

incidentally I seem to recall in the original GC track access documents t way back that they planned to turn around all the services at Ryhope Grange. Had a further platform beeping place they could have stayed in the station it's self.
 

swt_passenger

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Took a couple of pics with the phone, hence pretty useless quality in the gloom. The south end throat pic shows how the down line from Sunderland tunnel (the middle line of three) approaches on what seems its original route and then moves across to join the single down line through the narrowed gap between the two islands. On the right of that pic you can see the unused third section of the over bridge that would originally have had the down line from the South Hylton direction running through it - but if you look carefully the start of the west side of the station cutting is visible, as are various support columns for the overbuild.

It is very difficult to get an idea of what the unused island must be like, but if you look closely below the illuminated glass wall in the second pic you'll see its platform edge, which has been painted matt black, but carries length marking numbers in white. For all I know the main length of the island behind that glass wall might consist of a forest of concrete piles holding up all the shops above? In other words they may have no feasible way of increasing platform numbers again - certainly the recent new platform buildings etc on the in-use island have effectively made the 2002 widening out over the track a bit of a one way step.

By the way there is a picture in the wikipedia article on the station showing the edge of the disused island blanked off with a concrete wall, but at that time the edge of the platform coping was still painted white in the normal manner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunder...r/File:Sunderland_station_Metro_platforms.jpg
 

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sprinterguy

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When did they build the current structure above the station? I can't see any reference in the link I posted above.
Sunderland station has been enclosed in a piecemeal fashion over the years. The north end of the station had the new Littlewoods store and what is now the North end entrance built over it at the same time as the main concourse was put in place in 1965/66. The parade of shops opposite The Bridges was also built out over the non-passenger island platform between the main and north end station entrances at this time, leaving the central section of the passenger island platform open to the sky.

The southern approach to the station, between Holmeside and Waterloo Place outside the main entrance, also remained open to the elements until it too was covered over in 1987. This was done at the same time as the track was removed from the non-passenger island platform, its role for parcels use probably having diminished following the closure of Brian Mills parcel depot on the South Dock branch in 1981.

The remaining central open section of the passenger island platform was only covered over during work to extend the Metro to Sunderland in late 2000/2001.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It is very difficult to get an idea of what the unused island must be like, but if you look closely below the illuminated glass wall in the second pic you'll see its platform edge, which has been painted matt black, but carries length marking numbers in white. For all I know the main length of the island behind that glass wall might consist of a forest of concrete piles holding up all the shops above? In other words they may have no feasible way of increasing platform numbers again - certainly the recent new platform buildings etc on the in-use island have effectively made the 2002 widening out over the track a bit of a one way step.
I’m not sure how the extension of the roof over the remaining open part of the station for the Metro extension circa 2001 might have affected it, but prior to that the disused island platform had not been obstructed by supports, given that it remained in parcels use for some years after the parade of shops had been built above it.

It’s possible to take a brief peek at the old island platform, down the back of the new wall, from the front seat of Metrocars arriving from Park Lane.
 
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swt_passenger

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I’m not sure how the extension of the roof over the remaining open part of the station for the Metro extension circa 2001 might have affected it, but prior to that the disused island platform had not been obstructed by supports, given that it remained in parcels use for some years after the parade of shops had been built above it.

Ah, so that's slightly more reassuring, there might be a slim possibility that at least a third platform could still be provided on the west side. I think the main risk is that even if there is only a single row of support columns they might be too close to a platform edge built to current standards.

It seems to me that for any possible permutation of lift or stairs positions on a western platform you'd probably have to demolish quite a few shops. They'd need to start with a clean slate.

Will be interesting to see how the additional ECML HSTs via Newcastle that start in December are dealt with.

I noticed that at the north end of the disused island there seems to be a partition wall across the end of the platform, and in the very poor light it appeared to have a set of double doors in it, but it wasn't at all obvious what the route of the fourth track (counting east to west) must have been when it was still there.
 
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sprinterguy

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Will be interesting to see how the additional ECML HSTs via Newcastle that start in December are dealt with.
That’s certainly going to be an interesting one. The combined lengths of platforms 1 & 2 (Up direction) or platforms 3 & 4 (Both directions) are all around 175 metres between signals, or about 7.6 x 23 metre vehicles. While 5-car IEP sets will fit in the platform no problem (lengthwise), I’m having difficulty envisaging how a full 2+9 HST formation, as will be used initially, will be accommodated when 6-car class 158 formations (and the present day Grand Central 2+6 HSTs) always seemed to do a good job of filling a platform up.

This is assuming that the East Coast set will be coming from/going to Heaton depot ECS and hence will require some sort of reversal at Sunderland. A run down to Ryhope Grange and back again, perhaps, to avoid the need to reverse in the station?
 
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MidnightFlyer

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Sunderland station has been enclosed in a piecemeal fashion over the years. The north end of the station had the new Littlewoods store and what is now the North end entrance built over it at the same time as the main concourse was put in place in 1965/66. The parade of shops opposite The Bridges was also built out over the non-passenger island platform between the main and north end station entrances at this time, leaving the central section of the passenger island platform open to the sky.

The southern approach to the station, between Holmeside and Waterloo Place outside the main entrance, also remained open to the elements until it too was covered over in 1987. This was done at the same time as the track was removed from the non-passenger island platform, its role for parcels use probably having diminished following the closure of Brian Mills parcel depot on the South Dock branch in 1981.

The remaining central open section of the passenger island platform was only covered over during work to extend the Metro to Sunderland in late 2000/2001.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I’m not sure how the extension of the roof over the remaining open part of the station for the Metro extension circa 2001 might have affected it, but prior to that the disused island platform had not been obstructed by supports, given that it remained in parcels use for some years after the parade of shops had been built above it.

It’s possible to take a brief peek at the old island platform, down the back of the new wall, from the front seat of Metrocars arriving from Park Lane.

Thanks, incredibly informative! :)
 

swt_passenger

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This is assuming that the East Coast set will be coming from/going to Heaton depot ECS and hence will require some sort of reversal at Sunderland. A run down to Ryhope Grange and back again, perhaps, to avoid the need to reverse in the station?

If it used the down platform following a reversal at Ryhope Grange, presumably a full length HST would block the route from the up platform towards Park Lane and the Metro branch?
 

wensley

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If it used the down platform following a reversal at Ryhope Grange, presumably a full length HST would block the route from the up platform towards Park Lane and the Metro branch?

In answer to the above, yes it would.

The only logical starting point for the stock is Heaton, and as suggested this would require a reversal at Ryhope Grange, or two Drivers. With the latter option the train could draw into the Up Platform ECS, go past the South end starting signal and then be inside for the move back over onto the Down Line in service (in theory!).

A 2+7 GC HST can be accomodated, but to get all doors on the platform on the Down Platform the train must draw past the North end starting signal on arrival and this route locks the junction for Up Metro services to South Hylton. A 2+6 HST fits snugly on the platform, and inside the signals.

Time will tell how it's managed.
 

142094

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At the minute, the timings between Northern Rail/Grand Central trains and the Metro services, if the Northern service coming from Middlesbrough is late or the Grand Central is in the platform for a few minutes too long, then the Metro service can often be heavily delayed. The xx.30 Northern train arriving into platform 4 from Hartlepool blocks the Metro at Park Lane. Quite often you will see the Metro service come in behind the Northern unit, but the difference in top speeds on the section (i.e. 70 mph for Northern and 50 mph/80 kph for Metro means the Metro has no chance of clawing back lost time.

Point to note, Metro services can use all platforms at Sunderland, and there are a few booked workings which do not follow the pattern. One early morning service uses platform 3 not 2 as the GC service is in. The last train from the Airport to Sunderland 2I05 terminates in platform 2 then reverses. Very rarely, if there is disruption, platform 1 and 4 have been used.

Also, GC have started recently using both loops at Pelaw (think the one that has been used in recent times is the Down Goods Loop).
 

swt_passenger

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Thanks both, I guess what it all comes down to is that in 2001 no-one in the area was forecasting either GC or ECML...

They may well have painted themselves into a corner here...
 
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