Supermarkets and Covid-19

[111-111-1]

Really? Unbearable? First world problems. It's not like you can go to the pub.

Shop locally and you'll avoid most of it anyway. I've not queued for a local shop (e.g. the small Co-op) at all yet.

Good for you if that is what is happening in your experience. It has not been mine and some of my colleagues experience after a day at work keeping the country moving and my 2 NHS nurse friends who live in smaller villages.

 

[SamYeager]

Tellingly, the local Sainsbury's hasn't done this whilst Tesco have. I myself backtracked on several occasions. What are people meant to do, walk round the whole store several times to get back to bits I've forgotten or missed because they've moved things to create barriers?

Not having a go at you because I've had to the odd hiccup myself but have you thought about making a list of what you want roughly in the order you would encounter the products you want?

 

[Mojo]

Not having a go at you because I've had to the odd hiccup myself but have you thought about making a list of what you want roughly in the order you would encounter the products you want?

I only ever go shopping with a list. One side is the menu of what I’m eating, and the other side is the actual product. Sometimes it’s hard to know, in what order, the shops will be laid out, especially on the fruit and veg section as it seems what goes on each side to be random.

To be honest, I’ve noticed these ‘one way’ systems to be incredibly subtle, shops I’ve been in are a lot emptier, so it’s not really been necessary; I must admit to having not really noticed them, especially as some are impossible, for instance at the big Tesco by Kings + station, it is almost impossible to backtrack as all arrows point toward the checkout.

 

[Aussie_Rail]

Supermarkets in Australia have definitely benefited in this, but some of have actually done a great deal of service and quite a lot to help people.

So I work at Woolworths in the leafy inner-east Melbourne and in Australia, about a month ago when all the panic buying started it was like working Christmas Eve every day, and this went on for about 2 weeks. My store in particular was recording sales of almost triple what we would normally be taking in this time of year, quite incredible. To have all our manned belt registers (5) open all day was a really surreal sight. It was great for us our store budget for wages was virtually unlimited, so it was great for staff in getting extra shifts, thus earning more money each week etc.

For the consumer it wasn't good. With the panic buying it left the shelves almost stripped bare. In the 6 years I've been working in my store, I'd never seen anything like it. At the peak of it, the shelves were so bare that it looked like the dieing days of the Soviet Union. It was incredible. One of my managers has seen this before and he said they panic bought in the lead up to the Y2K bug in late 1999 when people panic bought etc. Although in those days they also panic bought petrol which at the time had to be rationed. That hasn't happened there, in fact the price of fuel has come right down as there is so little demand for it with the lock down. Some retailers have unleaded petrol for as little $AUD0.88 cents per litre. The average being about b$AUD1.00 which is fantastic.

So what happened in our store pretty much happened nationally and probably also occurred in the UK, all the essentials become impossible to get. Items like toilet paper, pasta, rice, canned veg, flour, bread, long life milk, paper towel, cleaning products etc, etc. So nation wide, Woolworths implemented quantity limits on all the essentials which certainly made a difference but because the supply chain was so overstretched we just weren't getting the stock in. To help the elderly and the disabled all stored altered their trading hours to allow the first hour of opening to the elderly and the disabled and then after the first hour, the was open to the general populous.

While that seemed like a good idea, it was unfortunate that because the supply chain had collapsed deliveries of stock were either delayed by days or very limited meaning we didn't have anything on the shelves each morning that people were all trying to get. Even as a supermarket worker, getting toilet paper was sometimes impossible. Fast forward to today and there's now an oversupply... At the moment we still dedicate the first hour to the elderly and the disabled. It was interesting to see where the panic buying started on from. First it was hand sanitizer in any form and then people moved on to the next best thing and so on, so people moved on to cleaning wipes, sprays and disinfectants and then BOOM, toilet paper, paper towel and everything else. When long life milk started to become scarce, fresh milk went soon after. It really was a sight to behold to see shelves completely bare. I actually felt bad for the guys in replenishment, as soon as they'd bring out a roll cage of stock, people would try and grab things as they're stacking the shelf... They had to put toilet paper out overnight, during the day it was too dangerous, even in my store we had to employ two security guards to close the isle off while they put paper out.

So then came social distancing, well that was interesting, although our store adapted quite well actually. The Victorian State Government enacted a range of new measures that we had to comply with, so because of that we've had to limit the customer numbers in our store to less than 100 so we've had staff using a special counter app that Woolworths developed to measure numbers in store and when we reached that number people would be queued up outside. It worked quite well actually, I was surprised and 99% of people were appreciative our measures knowing it's for their general well being. My store is in an area where the average age of our customers is easily into their 60's, lots of old people in this area and the virus has been pretty bad, at least for Australian standards.

So the measures that Woolworths and our main competitor, Coles have introduced have been pretty good actually and the roll out was quite quick. In our store we put up perspex screens in front of all our registers, which are about to be added to our self serve machines too. We have closed self serve machines so that there is suitable spacing to allow for the 1.5m spaces we need to create. Every 2nd machine was closed. Not ideal as they are very popular and we get long queues, but with the shut down, most people are stuck at home, so overall it isn't too bad.

One of the positives that has come about this, and I'm really happy about this is that Woolworths is partnered with QANTAS where every time you scan your rewards card you can either have it set up to collect points which earn you an in-store credit or you set it up to earn QANTAS frequent flyer points. Well due to the shut down and the thousands of people that are now out of work, especially QANTAS employees, both Woolworths and I think Coles did too announced that they would take on an extra 20,000 employees nationally to help in store, in replenishment and in warehousing etc, as well as employees from Hotels, gaming venues and bistros that the company owns.

So in my store we have QANTAS baggage handlers working in night-fill and replenishment, we have cabin crew and other QANTAS employees working in customer service roles and also hotel staff as well, which has worked out really well. Loving having these guys about. It seems they love their new roles too which is great as they could be with us for up to a year. Some have never worked in a supermarket and never thought they'd live to see the day that they do. They've all been really good about it, no snobs or anything, they're all grateful to be working still. Some have said even when it's all over they'd love to stay on and work when they can. So that's been a fantastic outcome for some people who have been laid off.

Being an essential worker is something I never expected to be. I do feel incredibly lucky that I can still go to work each day, feel bad for so many who can't. I just want to meet all those that look down on supermarket workers when we're all still working and the snobs that look down on us are either out of work or having to work from home on reduced pay and hours.

 

[trebor79]

Not having a go at you because I've had to the odd hiccup myself but have you thought about making a list of what you want roughly in the order you would encounter the products you want?

I only ever go shopping with a list. One side is the menu of what I’m eating, and the other side is the actual product. Sometimes it’s hard to know, in what order, the shops will be laid out, especially on the fruit and veg section as it seems what goes on each side to be random.

To be honest, I’ve noticed these ‘one way’ systems to be incredibly subtle, shops I’ve been in are a lot emptier, so it’s not really been necessary; I must admit to having not really noticed them, especially as some are impossible, for instance at the big Tesco by Kings + station, it is almost impossible to backtrack as all arrows point toward the checkout.

Yes I go with a list. The problem is I usually shop online and am not terribly familiar with the layout, plus they keep moving where stuff is.
At my Tesco it is impossible to get back into the fresh fruit and veg without either backtracking, moving some of the barricades they've put up or going through the checkout and back to the start.
No such nonsense in Sainsbury's, but there they have people stood at the end of the aisles barking "2m, sir" if you deign to enter someone's imaginary 2m bubble.
That and people huffing and puffing as I study my list or choose what I want rather than just walking past is silly. There is almost zero risk from briefly walking past someone unless they sneeze or cough in your face, 15 minutes of close contact, within 2m, is where the risk is. That's assuming they actually have the disease, which is exceptionally unlikely to begin with in this particular county.
I have to admit I tend to ignore most other people and if they want to huff and puff and make exaggerated swerves I just let them get on with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not having a go at you because I've had to the odd hiccup myself but have you thought about making a list of what you want roughly in the order you would encounter the products you want?

Supermarkets could help with this by publishing a map of each store online and stopping moving stuff around.

With regard to one way systems these are easier if designed in - most Aldi stores work this way, but inexplicably my local one has 5 aisles so it doesn't work! (Most Aldi and Lidl stores have 4).

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Not having a go at you because I've had to the odd hiccup myself but have you thought about making a list of what you want roughly in the order you would encounter the products you want?

It's the eggs that always confuse me. Every supermarket seems to put their eggs in a different section so unless it's a shop I'm familiar with I usually have to walk up and down every aisle before I find them!

 

[scotrail158713]

Supermarkets could help with this by publishing a map of each store online and stopping moving stuff around.

But they make more money through layout changes. If I have to look round the whole shop to find a loaf of bread because it’s changed location, I’m more likely to pick up that pack of biscuits or bottle of wine I didn’t initially intend on buying, but have now passed a couple of times.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But they make more money through layout changes. If I have to look round the whole shop to find a loaf of bread because it’s changed location, I’m more likely to pick up that pack of biscuits or bottle of wine I didn’t initially intend on buying, but have now passed a couple of times.

I know, but this situation is different, and people being able to plan their shop to complete it as efficiently as possible is to everyone's benefit.

 

[sheff1]

At my local supermarket there is rarely a queue to get in, shopping as a couple is welcomed, there is no one-way system and cash is readily accepted from those who want to use it .... and, of course, the cashiers address everyone as "love", "darling" or "sweetheart" .

 

[Strat-tastic]

Has anyone given any thought to the fact that forcing people to use one way aisles actually increases the distance covered round the store and therefore also increases transmission risk...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has anyone given any thought to the fact that forcing people to use one way aisles actually increases the distance covered round the store and therefore also increases transmission risk...

I doubt it does, because if you're going two-way people have to pass face to face which is much higher risk than going round the store remaining 2m behind the shopper in front.

 

[trebor79]

Has anyone given any thought to the fact that forcing people to use one way aisles actually increases the distance covered round the store and therefore also increases transmission risk...

Yes I've had exactly that thought.

I doubt it does, because if you're going two-way people have to pass face to face which is much higher risk than going round the store remaining 2m behind the shopper in front.

Is it though?
What's riskier, a fleeting pass of someone in the opposite direction, a metre or more away, or trailing round behind someone for several minutes, inhaling their exhaled air?

Problem is we have supermarket managers and other making well intentioned decision, but who lack any scientific or medical background, or in some cases without just stopping and thinking about possible unintended consequences.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just suggesting these things are worth questioning.

 

[Domh245]

WHO guidelines are to stay at least 1m away from other people, UK gov advice is 2m - I think it's safe to say that so long as you stay at least 2m away the risk of transmission is minimal. You'd have to have quite the lung capacity to inhale air from over 2m away, remembering that the person you're behind should (hopefully) be exhaling away from you anyway

 

[AM9]

... Problem is we have supermarket managers and other making well intentioned decision, but who lack any scientific or medical background, or in some cases without just stopping and thinking about possible unintended consequences. ...

I think that you'll find that supermarkets are making decisions such as how to maintain the necessary separation between customers based on information from government scientific advisers. Maybe a small business is making it up from snippets of information but most large organisations are generally very well informed on health and safety matters. They have probably undertaken risk assessments as to which is the best approach Of course you can question it if you like but to be relevant, you would need to gather a fair amount of information.

 

[Qwerty133]

Supermarkets could help with this by publishing a map of each store online and stopping moving stuff around.

With regard to one way systems these are easier if designed in - most Aldi stores work this way, but inexplicably my local one has 5 aisles so it doesn't work! (Most Aldi and Lidl stores have 4).

While there are Aldi stores with 4 aisles I believe the standard design is to have 5.

 

[Mojo]

A couple of things that would help the queueing situation would be supermarkets publishing online their busy times and potentially even allowing some element of pre-booking of specific times (or if you choose not to you can still rock up and queue).

I downloaded a new App this evening called Supermarket Check In. As far as I can work out it's crowdsourced and doesn't appear to have any algorithms in it that remember details from previous days, so is very inaccurate (for instance it decided that Tesco Metro has a 20 Min wait time despite only one app users having ever checked in there, and that was three days ago). I suppose over time if people use it things will get better, but if it's wrong one or two times then people will never use it and the data would never get better.

I like the idea of a slot booking system.

 

[Hadders]

But they make more money through layout changes. If I have to look round the whole shop to find a loaf of bread because it’s changed location, I’m more likely to pick up that pack of biscuits or bottle of wine I didn’t initially intend on buying, but have now passed a couple of times.

I'd be very surprised if supermarkets are moving anything around at the moment. The bread section will be where the bread section normally is, canned veg will be where canned veg normally is etc. What might change is the location of a particular product within a section as products come and go from the range.

 

[krus_aragon]

And supermarkets are benefiting hugely from business rates relief, on top of a big increase in turnover and improvement in margins (less discounting).

Some larger properties (including supermarkets) are being excluded from the rates relief in Wales, which the likes of Tesco were not pleased about: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-52094877

Tesco has been accused of "whipping up a huge lobbying operation" against a decision not to give its biggest stores in Wales financial help.

The Welsh Government changed its mind on giving business rate relief to all retail, hospitality and leisure firms.

BBC Wales has been told Tesco asked the government for an explanation of its thinking rather than a change in policy. Tesco said it had recruited 2,750 new staff in Wales during the outbreak. The relief will not now be given to the "small proportion of properties" with a rateable value of £500,000 and above.

A Welsh Government source said Tesco had "been using all channels to get us to overturn the decision" and that "it's been disproportionate".

 

[greyman42]

At my local supermarket there is rarely a queue to get in, shopping as a couple is welcomed, there is no one-way system and cash is readily accepted from those who want to use it .... and, of course, the cashiers address everyone as "love", "darling" or "sweetheart" .

It is the same in York. I wonder if there is some sort of north/south divide on this?

 

[Dr Hoo]

One of the most annoying things (to me) about the current arrangements is when some phone-obsessed individual receives a call whilst in mid-aisle and promptly puts their basket down and removes their mask to have a good old chin wag oblivious of the growing 'tail' of distancing-ees backing up as they create their own potential micro-cloud of COVID droplets as they laugh and chat.

Besides being 'trapped', when movement is finally resumed the phone addict always seems to sweep up the 'last' packet/jar/can/bottle of whatever it is that you had gone in for, just to add insult to injury.

(Sorry, must have been watching too many Victor Meldrew repeats.)

 

[Mag_seven]

One of the most annoying things (to me) about the current arrangements is when some phone-obsessed individual receives a call whilst in mid-aisle and promptly puts their basket down and removes their mask to have a good old chin wag oblivious of the growing 'tail' of distancing-ees backing up as they create their own potential micro-cloud of COVID droplets as they laugh and chat.

In the early days of social distancing in supermarkets I witnessed a man walking up and down the aisle just talking into his mobile phone and not looking at anything on the shelves . He didn't appear to have a basket or trolley so I assume he was with "the wife" or whoever who was elsewhere in the shop actually doing the shopping!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I just went in a smallish Sainsbury's Local (after popping over to Buckingham to drop off a spare bike outside a friend's house so he can use it for his daily exercise, which I figured was OK as bike shops are allowed to be open and to deliver, and I didn't go in) and it, like every other small shop I've been in since this started, was nice and quiet, and those people who were there (staff and customers) were polite and sensible over the whole thing.

So if there's one near you and you can deal with a limited range and slightly higher prices, it's still the way to go.

 

[Mojo]

It is the same in York. I wonder if there is some sort of north/south divide on this?

Not in my experience. There are no queues at central London supermarkets. I suspect that it's purely dependent on when you go and to what shops. Leading up to the easter weekend was very busy, but was able to pop into Waitrose this afternoon with no queue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not in my experience. There are no queues at central London supermarkets. I suspect that it's purely dependent on when you go and to what shops. Leading up to the easter weekend was very busy, but was able to pop into Waitrose this afternoon with no queue.

And it doesn't even make sense in every case. Near me there is a Tesco Express and a Co-op pretty much right next to each other (you wouldn't think so but it was allegedly the best thing that ever happened to the Co-op and caused their custom to increase, not decrease, when it opened). The Tesco Express has had a queue outside every time I've passed it, but the Co-op very rarely does. People don't even look outside the box of walking next door!

 

[WelshBluebird]

One of the most annoying things (to me) about the current arrangements is when some phone-obsessed individual receives a call whilst in mid-aisle and promptly puts their basket down and removes their mask to have a good old chin wag oblivious of the growing 'tail' of distancing-ees backing up as they create their own potential micro-cloud of COVID droplets as they laugh and chat.

Besides being 'trapped', when movement is finally resumed the phone addict always seems to sweep up the 'last' packet/jar/can/bottle of whatever it is that you had gone in for, just to add insult to injury.

(Sorry, must have been watching too many Victor Meldrew repeats.)

Ever considered that they may be discussing the contents of their shop? Given the current situation where a lot of items you may buy are not in stock, or don't have the versions you'd normally have etc. Add to that the rules about only one member from a household going to the shop. On my couple of trips for food shopping I have certainly had to have phone discussions about what to get.

And it doesn't even make sense in every case. Near me there is a Tesco Express and a Co-op pretty much right next to each other (you wouldn't think so but it was allegedly the best thing that ever happened to the Co-op and caused their custom to increase, not decrease, when it opened). The Tesco Express has had a queue outside every time I've passed it, but the Co-op very rarely does. People don't even look outside the box of walking next door!

We have a Tesco Metro and a Sainsburies local right next door. Ten min queue for the Tesco yesterday, no queue for the Sainsburies. Yet people who were just picking up a sandwhich etc were queing for Tesco (those doing a larger shop are excused as the Tesco does stock a much wider choice!).

 

[Mojo]

We have a Tesco Metro and a Sainsburies local right next door. Ten min queue for the Tesco yesterday, no queue for the Sainsburies. Yet people who were just picking up a sandwhich etc were queing for Tesco (those doing a larger shop are excused as the Tesco does stock a much wider choice!).

Tesco Express has a much wider range of sandwiches and ready meals and their Meal deal is much better than Sainsburys.

 

[Meerkat]

Ever considered that they may be discussing the contents of their shop? Given the current situation where a lot of items you may buy are not in stock, or don't have the versions you'd normally have etc. Add to that the rules about only one member from a household going to the shop. On my couple of trips for food shopping I have certainly had to have phone discussions about what to get.

I have done that, but I wondered off to a quiet spot to do it!

 

[ValleyLines142]

I've never had an issue with my Tesco Metro but on Friday it was frankly ridiculous. Nobody was taking any notice of the one-way system, so much so that I actually spoke to (2m apart of course) a member of staff to ask them to get a supervisor/manager to make an announcement because it was silly.

The worst for me is the old dears, who seem blissfully unaware of what is actually going on at the moment, despite having to queue to get into the store. One old dear in front of me, who scarily reminded me of Daisy from Keeping Up Appearances with her shopping trolley, entered one aisle the wrong way, and I politely informed her and pointed to the arrows to say she was going the wrong way. Her reply was 'oh'. On to the next aisle, she did exactly the same thing. I get some people suffer from a little confusion but this was sheer ignorance.

Staff regularly ignore the arrows too.

 

[Cowley]

And it doesn't even make sense in every case. Near me there is a Tesco Express and a Co-op pretty much right next to each other (you wouldn't think so but it was allegedly the best thing that ever happened to the Co-op and caused their custom to increase, not decrease, when it opened). The Tesco Express has had a queue outside every time I've passed it, but the Co-op very rarely does. People don't even look outside the box of walking next door!

Very similar for me. There’s a Tesco’s Metro quite near to a Co-op in Exeter and even though it’s more expensive I’ve taken to using the Co-op because it’s a more relaxing experience.