SVH fares

[district]

Hi all

I am looking to buy the following SVH tickets but Southeastern's STAR machine does not show the fare as existing:

Southampton Ctrl to Manchester with Priv (brfares)which should be £14 and

Manchester to London with Priv (Brfares) which should be £10.50.

Are these promotional fares now expired or should I be able to get them through somewhere?

Thanks in advance

 

[Bletchleyite]

SVHs are only available online on Trainline-derived sites, and can only be purchased with another ticket (any ticket, so if you want to save money over a SVS a good way is to find the cheapest Advance in the other direction and bin it) in the opposite direction.

 

[causton]

Priv SVHs are effectively impossible to buy.

They are specifically removed from the list of fares available from sale by ticket office machines, as Neil says, they are only for sale online when buying a ticket in the other direction. You used to be able to issue the East Coast half price Super Off-Peak Singles, but as there is no way of checking there is actually a ticket being purchased for the other direction, and as it is advertised as an online only offer, I can't see them being available for purchase :/

 

[SickyNicky]

SVHs are only available online on Trainline-derived sites, and can only be purchased with another ticket (any ticket, so if you want to save money over a SVS a good way is to find the cheapest Advance in the other direction and bin it) in the opposite direction.

Not just Trainline. We sell them as well, as do Raileasy.

 

[yorkie]

Are these promotional fares now expired or should I be able to get them through somewhere?

Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, these Off Peak Singles (code: SVH) are not available singly.

NRE states that "The new fare names describe when you can buy or use your ticket..." however this isn't always the case.

The old name was "Saver Half". Now they share their name with the Off Peak Single (code: SVS) which was formerly known as the Saver Single.

The change was made in order to be seen as being "simple" and to enable you to "buy in confidence", however I wouldn't be inclined to agree with those statements. However it's ticked a DfT box, so that's all that apparently matters!

 

[221129]

There are no mentions of these restrictions anywhere that I can find?

 

[Starmill]

I doubt it. It's just that it's impossible to buy one without buying a ticket in the other direction too.

 

[najaB]

There are no mentions of these restrictions anywhere that I can find?

Splitting hairs here, but technically (and grammatically) they aren't restrictions.

A restriction places limits on when a ticket is valid for travel, the whole 'you can only buy it with another ticket in the other direction' is a condition of sale which places limits on when the ticket can be sold. Having bought the ticket, there will be a whole different set of usage restrictions as well.

As yorkie said, they really should be listed under a different ticket name.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

They were always available in Avantix machines, indeed I remember selling one to somebody as a single ticket by mistake because Avantix just said SVS. I thought it might carry some online only restriction so scrolled through the not inconsiderable restriction and selling text on the screen, and no mention was made of anything, so I sold it.

I have not checked recently to see if Avantix still lists them. They did not so long ago.

 

[district]

Many thanks for all your help.

 

[gray1404]

It is confusing seeing then listed on BRfares too.

 

[district]

It is confusing seeing then listed on BRfares too.

Definitely is! Got my hopes up when I was researching them for a trip and was disappointed when they couldn't be issued.

 

[OwlMan]

From the National Rail Ticket & Validity finder
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/TicketAndValidityFinder.aspx

Off-Peak Single [Online Only]
Ticket type
Ticket name - Off-Peak Single [Online Only]
Description - Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are less busy. You may need to travel at specific times of the day, days of the week and sometimes on specific routes or operators.
The times when you may use your Super Off-Peak ticket will depend on the journey you are making and you will be advised when buying your ticket. The National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which tickets are valid for your journey.

Ticket code - SVH
Class - Standard
Single or return - Single
Include TOCs
Greater Anglia; Arriva Trains Wales; c2c; Chiltern Railways; CrossCountry; East Midlands Trains; Gatwick Express; Grand Central; Great Northern; Great Western Railway; Heathrow Connect; Heathrow Express; Hull Trains; Island Line; London Midland; London Overground; Merseyrail; Northern; ScotRail; South West Trains; Southeastern; Southern; Stansted Express; TfL Rail; Thameslink; TransPennine Express; Virgin Trains; Virgin Trains East Coast;


Validity

Outward validity​

Day​

Off-Peak Single tickets are valid for outward travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 04:29 the following morning.
If you cannot complete your journey on the same day you will be allowed to finish it the following day - see 'Break of journey' below.
Return validity
Not applicable.

Time​

The National Rail Journey Planner will automatically work out which tickets are valid for your journey.
The times when you may use your Off-Peak ticket are indicated by a Restriction Code applicable to the journey you are making. This can be viewed by clicking the link from the Journey Planner ticket terms and conditions page once you have made your selection.
The Restriction Code is a two character (alpha-numeric) code. This is shown on most tickets and the meaning can be found by going to www.nationalrail.co.uk/XX [where 'XX' is the two character code].
You will also be advised of the restriction when buying your ticket.


Break of journey

Permitted​

​

A break of journey is permitted unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's Restriction Code.
Overnight break of journey - if the journey cannot be completed in this time, the ticket may be used to continue the journey on the following day. Unless otherwise indicated in the relevant restriction code, time restrictions apply as from the initial origin station on both days. The appropriate restrictions for the actual day on which travel is being undertaken apply (for example, it may be that if day 1 is on Sunday, no restrictions apply, but on day 2, the Monday-Friday restrictions apply). All travel must be completed by 04:29 in the morning after this second day.
Not applicable.

Availability
· Purchase location
· Online at most train company websites or through selected other online retailers.

· Purchase availability
· This ticket can only be purchased online and as part of a return journey.

· Pre-booking requirement
· None.
· Reservations compulsory
· No, but you can reserve a seat on many longer distance services and reservations are recommended on busy services.
Discounts

Child​

Yes
Children (aged 5 to 15 inclusive) are offered a 50% discount.
Up to two children aged under 5 can travel free with each fare paying passenger.

Railcard​

Yes
16-25 Railcard, Family & Friends, Two Together, Disabled Persons Railcard, HM Forces Railcard, Senior Railcard, Network and GoldCard all offer 34% discount.
Minimum fares / time restrictions may apply to tickets bought with a Railcard or other discount card. See terms and conditions of the appropriate Railcard or discount card for details.
Railcard holders travelling on a discounted ticket must carry their Railcard when they travel. If a Railcard holder fails to produce their valid Railcard with their ticket, they will be required to pay a full priced ticket for their journey as if no Railcard and/or no ticket were held.

Group​

No

Refund & Changes
· Changes to travel plan
· See 'Refund Policy' below.
· Refund policy
· This ticket is only valid as part of a return journey. If the other portion of the return journey is cancelled, this ticket (online Off-Peak single) must be cancelled at the same time. A £10 charge will apply for any refund.

 

[gray1404]

It would be useful if these type of tickets could appear on BRfares with a different coloured background so that they stand out from the regular fares.

 

[alistairlees]

SVH fares are also available from Assertis sites, as well as Raileasy and Trainline. They are only available online, as the (IDMS) description states.

The rules are:
- can only be bought online
- can only be bought in conjunction with another single as part of a return journey. The other single must therefore have the same origin and destination (the other way round of course), the same route code and the same status code (adult / child / railcard)
- the other single can be standard or first class
- the SVH can be for either the outward or return direction
- if the customer selects an SVH for travel in each direction (it is possible) then the customer should be sold an SVR instead

None of these conditions of sale (they are not restrictions, as someone else said) is supported in any fares data, so TIS have to manually implement these rules. This is also why BRfares is unable to distinguish them from other tickets (unless some manual info is added).

Virgin Trains used to do 'accreditation' of online TIS (on top of RSP accreditation!) to test the correct retailing of these. I don't know if they still do.

There used to be East Coast and (briefly) EMT equivalents. I'm not sure if they still exist.

They should not be sold through on-board machines or stations.

VT introduced them principally to cater for customers who knew what train to London (or elsewhere) they needed to get (because of a meeting for instance), and could therefore buy an Advance for it, but wanted some flexibility for coming back, and therefore couldn't buy an Advance. As SVS tickets were only £1 less than SVR tickets, the half price SVH was introduced.

 

[Joe Paxton]

SVH fares are also available from Assertis sites, as well as Raileasy and Trainline. They are only available online, as the (IDMS) description states.

The rules are:
- can only be bought online
- can only be bought in conjunction with another single as part of a return journey. The other single must therefore have the same origin and destination (the other way round of course), the same route code and the same status code (adult / child / railcard)
- the other single can be standard or first class
- the SVH can be for either the outward or return direction
- if the customer selects an SVH for travel in each direction (it is possible) then the customer should be sold an SVR instead

None of these conditions of sale (they are not restrictions, as someone else said) is supported in any fares data, so TIS have to manually implement these rules. This is also why BRfares is unable to distinguish them from other tickets (unless some manual info is added).

Virgin Trains used to do 'accreditation' of online TIS (on top of RSP accreditation!) to test the correct retailing of these. I don't know if they still do.

There used to be East Coast and (briefly) EMT equivalents. I'm not sure if they still exist.

They should not be sold through on-board machines or stations.

Re the VT East Coast equivalent (an online-only Super Off-Peak Single at half the price of a Return) - they existed until the VTEC site's booking engine changed a couple of weeks ago, though apparently they are to make a return on the new site (whether they actually do remains to be seen).

As introduced by East Coast (the previous TOC), they were available as a standalone ticket - i.e. you didn't need to buy it as part of a return journey - but you did have to buy it online by midnight the day before travel.

However not too long after the Stagecoach/Virgin takeover, this was changed and they only became available as part of a return journey (though with the 'buy-before-midnight' requirement scrapped). Presumably they were just too good value, and also inherently imposed a ceiling for Advance ticket prices on off-peak trains.

I didn't know that EMT had ever offered something similar.

VT introduced them principally to cater for customers who knew what train to London (or elsewhere) they needed to get (because of a meeting for instance), and could therefore buy an Advance for it, but wanted some flexibility for coming back, and therefore couldn't buy an Advance. As SVS tickets were only £1 less than SVR tickets, the half price SVH was introduced.

They are indeed great for just this, the thing is I can't recall VTWC ever actively promoting them as such. AFAICS there's zero explaination of them on the VTWC website, they only appear on the 'ticket choice' page when making a booking (and without much of an explanation).

 

[Hadders]

The VTEC version when first introduced by East Coast was only available on journeys to/from London. A big benefit was being able to purchase it as a standalone ticket but it was useless for stations that didn't involve London as the start or finish.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The VTEC version when first introduced by East Coast was only available on journeys to/from London. A big benefit was being able to purchase it as a standalone ticket but it was useless for stations that didn't involve London as the start or finish.

Very true, apologies for my metrocentricity.

When did that change?

 

[Wallsendmag]

The VTEC version when first introduced by East Coast was only available on journeys to/from London. A big benefit was being able to purchase it as a standalone ticket but it was useless for stations that didn't involve London as the start or finish.

That's due to the fact that SSS only exist to/from London and Stevenage so the SSU/SSH mirrors that.

 

[Hadders]

That's due to the fact that SSS only exist to/from London and Stevenage so the SSU/SSH mirrors that.

But there's no need for it to only exist to/from London. It could be introduced on other VTEC priced fares if the will was there....

 

[Wallsendmag]

That the first time I've heard anyone wanting to make fares more complicated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[causton]

- if the customer selects an SVH for travel in each direction (it is possible) then the customer should be sold an SVR instead

Some corporate booking engines (I know it was not Trainline) issue people with two SVH tickets. If I was not in such a rush at the time I would have noted down the details to see what company it was!

 

[najaB]

Some corporate booking engines (I know it was not Trainline) issue people with two SVH tickets.

Trainline certainly did so for me on several occasions.

 

[Paul Kelly]

- if the customer selects an SVH for travel in each direction (it is possible) then the customer should be sold an SVR instead

Worth noting that it's possible for a pair of "half-price singles" to have less stringent validity restrictions than the equivalently-priced return in some cases (assuming the passenger has a fixed day in mind as to when he/she is making the return journey), e.g. an SSR from Bristol to Newcastle has an evening peak restriction out of Paddington on the return portion, but a pair of SSH singles does not.

 

[Haywain]

Worth noting that it's possible for a pair of "half-price singles" to have less stringent validity restrictions than the equivalently-priced return in some cases (assuming the passenger has a fixed day in mind as to when he/she is making the return journey), e.g. an SSR from Bristol to Newcastle has an evening peak restriction out of Paddington on the return portion, but a pair of SSH singles does not.

But equally, the SSR would not have (morning) restrictions into London Kings Cross, which the SSU/SSH would have. Is that less stringent or just swings and roundabouts?

 

[alistairlees]

Worth noting that it's possible for a pair of "half-price singles" to have less stringent validity restrictions than the equivalently-priced return in some cases (assuming the passenger has a fixed day in mind as to when he/she is making the return journey), e.g. an SSR from Bristol to Newcastle has an evening peak restriction out of Paddington on the return portion, but a pair of SSH singles does not.

The rule I quoted about always selling an SVR instead of two SVHs applies to VT, but I don't know if the same rule applies (or was intended to apply) to East Coast / VTEC for the equivalent products.

For the VT SVR, the main reason I recall for requiring one SVR instead of two SVH was flexibility (rather than restrictions): the SVR is valid back for a calendar month, whereas the SVH is only valid for a single day. Of course, there should also be fewer restrictions.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

They were always available in Avantix machines, indeed I remember selling one to somebody as a single ticket by mistake because Avantix just said SVS. I thought it might carry some online only restriction so scrolled through the not inconsiderable restriction and selling text on the screen, and no mention was made of anything, so I sold it.

I have not checked recently to see if Avantix still lists them. They did not so long ago.

Re the VT East Coast equivalent (an online-only Super Off-Peak Single at half the price of a Return) - they existed until the VTEC site's booking engine changed a couple of weeks ago, though apparently they are to make a return on the new site (whether they actually do remains to be seen).

As introduced by East Coast (the previous TOC), they were available as a standalone ticket - i.e. you didn't need to buy it as part of a return journey - but you did have to buy it online by midnight the day before travel.

However not too long after the Stagecoach/Virgin takeover, this was changed and they only became available as part of a return journey (though with the 'buy-before-midnight' requirement scrapped). Presumably they were just too good value, and also inherently imposed a ceiling for Advance ticket prices on off-peak trains.

I didn't know that EMT had ever offered something similar.




They are indeed great for just this, the thing is I can't recall VTWC ever actively promoting them as such. AFAICS there's zero explaination of them on the VTWC website, they only appear on the 'ticket choice' page when making a booking (and without much of an explanation).

The VTEC version when first introduced by East Coast was only available on journeys to/from London. A big benefit was being able to purchase it as a standalone ticket but it was useless for stations that didn't involve London as the start or finish.

Checking Avantix I see that the VTWC SVH fares are no longer available to sell, but the VTEC equivalent is still shown, and will let you apply discounts, and sell them. Checking the text there is no mention of being online only or any other retailing restrictions, it just lists the time restrictions and nothing else.