Swansea Mum's Horror as Daughter is Left Alone

[trainophile]

I was on a LM train from Crewe to Liverpool a few days ago. On stopping at Winsford, several passengers got off and more got on. Everyone seemed settled and ready to go, indeed I'm almost sure I had heard the guard's whistle, when a "youf" strolled down the carriage towards a door and started punching at the 'open' button. Surprise surprise the door didn't open.

He immediately got on his mobile and was complaining loudly to whoever he was calling that "the train doors wouldn't open". :roll:

 

[bluenoxid]

Being honest! It was the staff's reaction that has exacerbated quite plainly this uncomfortable incident. Sometimes, a little bit of assistance and less opinions about the paperwork can help.

Sometimes it is better to stick to the facts (I can't move this train until I know why this handle was pulled! We cannot reverse the train to the station but we can get you to the next stop quickly where we can put you on a train to return to ...) and getting to a quick solution (it may not happen quickly, but a plan is easier to work on).

I will be honest. Some people are a bit thick!

 

[robertclark125]

One question to ask, how did the mother and child become separated on the train?

 

[trainophile]

One question to ask, how did the mother and child become separated on the train?

We were told that the child went to talk to a friend so was not sitting with her mother when they reached their station.

 

[sheff1]

Nothing to do with this case, but speaking as a mere passenger, sorry, as a clear moron, I can report that I was once overcarried because the doors would not open.

Why didn't they open ? Because the guard released the doors on the wrong side at the one station on the line with an island platform.

I now realise that I should have alighted from the offside where the doors had been opened as the guard obviously could not possibly have released the wrong doors ..... but, being a moron, I continued to the next stop, which was fortunately only 0.75 miles away, and walked back.

 

[IanD]

Being honest! It was the staff's reaction that has exacerbated quite plainly this uncomfortable incident. Sometimes, a little bit of assistance and less opinions about the paperwork can help.

Actually, the mother's reporting of the staff's alleged reaction. Who knows what the member of staff's reaction really was?

 

[khib70]

Actually, the mother's reporting of the staff's alleged reaction. Who knows what the member of staff's reaction really was?

So....the mother is possibly a liar as well as a moron???

 

[gazzak]

I'm a little surprised at two things here.
1. The reaction by many on this thread that the mother is completely at fault and held responsible for this.
2. That the mother didn't raise merry hell when the train started moving away again without positive action by the staff on board.

It doesn't matter how it happened, a 9 year old girl was stranded on a platform on her own at night, (the mother didn't know at that time that someone she knew had already taken control of the situation at the station). She doesn't know the railways so wouldn't know that it's not possible to reverse a train back. All she knows is that her daughter is in a dangerous situation and the staff on the train weren't doing much to help. I'd personally have stood there with my hand on the emergency stop until they provided clear evidence that my Daughter was safe. Stuff the timetable, the other passengers, the couldn't care less staff attitude, a child alone comes way above all of that, and then some.

I do wonder how many who have commented against the mother on this thread actually have children of their own? I suspect none.

 

[Ferret]

I'd personally have stood there with my hand on the emergency stop until they provided clear evidence that my Daughter was safe. Stuff the timetable, the other passengers, the couldn't care less staff attitude, a child alone comes way above all of that, and then some.

An excellent way of escalating a bad situation, with potential adverse consequences for yourself too.

 

[gazzak]

An excellent way of escalating a bad situation, with potential adverse consequences for yourself too.

There's your 9 year old on the platform alone, (as far as you're aware), and the train is pulling away with the staff on board doing nothing to help. How can the situation get any worse?

 

[Ferret]

There's your 9 year old on the platform alone, (as far as you're aware), and the train is pulling away with the staff on board doing nothing to help. How can the situation get any worse?

When you get arrested for obstructing the railway and your daughter is then in the hands of a social worker while you're charged down at the local nick?!

It's all well and good going down the gung ho All-American Hero type of road saying 'I'd do this that and the other and stuff everyone else', but not often the smartest thing to do! Frankly it'd be far better to ring the Police yourself rather than wait for an unsympathetic train crew to perhaps do it! Of course this comes with a caveat - are you likely to be thinking rationally at such a time?

 

[gazzak]

When you get arrested for obstructing the railway and your daughter is then in the hands of a social worker while you're charged down at the local nick?!

It's all well and good going down the gung ho All-American Hero type of road saying 'I'd do this that and the other and stuff everyone else', but not often the smartest thing to do! Frankly it'd be far better to ring the Police yourself rather than wait for an unsympathetic train crew to perhaps do it! Of course this comes with a caveat - are you likely to be thinking rationally at such a time?

With respect, I'd rather a social worker than a peado.

 

[SETCommuter]

Who's to say that the train crew on that train weren't all part of a paedophile ring and set this as a trap so that their mate at the station could take advantage ?

Hey, if we can all make up stuff about the mother, why not make stuff up about the train crew too ?

 

[DarloRich]

I think some people on this forum need to engage their brains before typing things as they simply make themselves look stupid.

A 9 year old girl was left, for all the mother knew, alone on an unmanned station platform at night. Now that doesn’t seem like a very good thing to happen does it? Anything could have happened to the young girl from sitting in a shelter being very scared and not knowing what to do, to hurting herself, falling on the track, getting lost, wandering off or even being abducted!

The attitude of some people on here is frankly an embarrassment. The number of supercilious "experts" on here is astounding at times. Of course we know the train isn’t going to reverse but a normal member of the public might not!!!!!!! That doesn’t make them an idiot you imbeciles, it makes them a passenger! They are the people who pay our wages, lest we forget! The train will, of course, proceed along the line but arrangements needed to be made ASAP to rectify this situation.

Now, one never knows how much of the story is journalistic license or embellishment but the attitude of the staff, as presented, does not present a very good impression. It shows a total lack of compassion, gumption, empathy, organisation and dare I say it, professionalism. It may well be that the report is highly inaccurate in this regard, but if it is true it presents everyone in a poor light. As has been said I would have tried to calm the lady down, made a call to the police almost instantly and asked them to get a policeman to the site ASAP if only to provide some comfort to the girl and take her to the police station for safekeeping. In the next breath I would have contacted control, appraised them of the situation and asked them to have a taxi at the next station to get her back to the original station. Hell I would have given her the cash myself!

We are told that the protection of children is of the utmost priory in society. What some of you suggest is that the railway simply washes its hands of a small girl alone at night and reject, entirely, the duty of care to look after vulnerable people and simply chuff off in to the distance without a care in the world. In all honesty, YOU are the idiots. I will excuse the children on this forum their opinions as they might lack some life experience but some of you need to have a long hard look at yourselves. The railway is not perfect and it does no harm to say, sorry we got this one wrong.

And before anyone starts of course I think the mother has a duty to care for the child and that the door was, probably, working but the railway and railway staff can not simply walk away from vulnerable people. No one on the train knew the girl was being looked after so, surely, you must assume the worst and act accordingly

 

[Ferret]

Who's to say that the train crew on that train weren't all part of a paedophile ring and set this as a trap so that their mate at the station could take advantage ?

Hey, if we can all make up stuff about the mother, why not make stuff up about the train crew too ?

Now this thread has stepped into truly bizarre territory!

 

[khib70]

I think some people on this forum need to engage their brains before typing things as they simply make themselves look stupid.

A 9 year old girl was left, for all the mother knew, alone on an unmanned station platform at night. Now that doesn’t seem like a very good thing to happen does it? Anything could have happened to the young girl from sitting in a shelter being very scared and not knowing what to do, to hurting herself, falling on the track, getting lost, wandering off or even being abducted!

The attitude of some people on here is frankly an embarrassment. The number of supercilious "experts" on here is astounding at times. Of course we know the train isn’t going to reverse but a normal member of the public might not!!!!!!! That doesn’t make them an idiot you imbeciles, it makes them a passenger! They are the people who pay our wages, lest we forget! The train will, of course, proceed along the line but arrangements needed to be made ASAP to rectify this situation.

Now, one never knows how much of the story is journalistic license or embellishment but the attitude of the staff, as presented, does not present a very good impression. It shows a total lack of compassion, gumption, empathy, organisation and dare I say it, professionalism. It may well be that the report is highly inaccurate in this regard, but if it is true it presents everyone in a poor light. As has been said I would have tried to calm the lady down, made a call to the police almost instantly and asked them to get a policeman to the site ASAP if only to provide some comfort to the girl and take her to the police station for safekeeping. In the next breath I would have contacted control, appraised them of the situation and asked them to have a taxi at the next station to get her back to the original station. Hell I would have given her the cash myself!

We are told that the protection of children is of the utmost priory in society. What some of you suggest is that the railway simply washes its hands of a small girl alone at night and reject, entirely, the duty of care to look after vulnerable people and simply chuff off in to the distance without a care in the world. In all honesty, YOU are the idiots. I will excuse the children on this forum their opinions as they might lack some life experience but some of you need to have a long hard look at yourselves. The railway is not perfect and it does no harm to say, sorry we got this one wrong.

And before anyone starts of course I think the mother has a duty to care for the child and that the door was, probably, working but the railway and railway staff can not simply walk away from vulnerable people. No one on the train knew the girl was being looked after so, surely, you must assume the worst and act accordingly

Excellent post. Says it all, for me

 

[Ferret]

I've not seen anyone suggest that the train should chuff off into the distance and stuff the needs of the little girl since the opening post. Well, apart from the reported actions of the actual crew, that is! A case of mounting the high horse there DarloRich?

 

[SETCommuter]

I appreciate that many many members on here work in the industry but as a customer, I can see both sides to the story - something that a lot of people here cannot do. It was automatically assumed that the doors were working and that the mother is a liar. There was no consideration given to the possibility that she may be telling the truth and that the railway have caused this issue.

You all need to open your eyes to those around you. Not everyone in your industry is perfect or as professional as you are. The railway and those within it are not correct 100% of the time. Passengers are not automatically wrong/liars/ignorant/rude 100% of the time.

 

[Ferret]

Hmmmm, those of us that work in the industry will be 99% certain that the doors were fine, it was just that she didn't make it to her door in time having had to usher her daughter to the other door. Have you not asked yourself why all of the experienced traincrew posting in this thread have come to the same conclusion?! We've seen similar things happen time and time again, and the first thing the passenger always says is 'the door won't work'. I'm afraid your criticism here is incorrect and misplaced.

Moving on though, plenty of us have attempted to see both sides of the story, and some crew have been critical of the way this incident appears to have been handled. I'm therefore flabbergasted to read some of the general attacks that have appeared in this thread. Is there any need for it?

PS, it's not that the mother is a liar, just that she is almost certainly mistaken about the door.

 

[Wolfie]

When you get arrested for obstructing the railway and your daughter is then in the hands of a social worker while you're charged down at the local nick?!

It's all well and good going down the gung ho All-American Hero type of road saying 'I'd do this that and the other and stuff everyone else', but not often the smartest thing to do! Frankly it'd be far better to ring the Police yourself rather than wait for an unsympathetic train crew to perhaps do it! Of course this comes with a caveat - are you likely to be thinking rationally at such a time?

my bold

I know the general view on here of the BTP but find me one plod who would be so dozy as to do this. His career would be ended then and there - how do you imagine the IPCC would judge his actions - clue massively below standard so dismiss! He would be trashed in the (national) media, the Welsh Assembly (you know, those who pay for ATW's services - might not lead to great consequences for the train crew either!) and Parliament in a way which makes the initial story look tame.

Indeed "Arrested for worrying about your abandoned child" - a great headline for the railways......
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think some people on this forum need to engage their brains before typing things as they simply make themselves look stupid.

A 9 year old girl was left, for all the mother knew, alone on an unmanned station platform at night. Now that doesn’t seem like a very good thing to happen does it? Anything could have happened to the young girl from sitting in a shelter being very scared and not knowing what to do, to hurting herself, falling on the track, getting lost, wandering off or even being abducted!

The attitude of some people on here is frankly an embarrassment. The number of supercilious "experts" on here is astounding at times. Of course we know the train isn’t going to reverse but a normal member of the public might not!!!!!!! That doesn’t make them an idiot you imbeciles, it makes them a passenger! They are the people who pay our wages, lest we forget! The train will, of course, proceed along the line but arrangements needed to be made ASAP to rectify this situation.

Now, one never knows how much of the story is journalistic license or embellishment but the attitude of the staff, as presented, does not present a very good impression. It shows a total lack of compassion, gumption, empathy, organisation and dare I say it, professionalism. It may well be that the report is highly inaccurate in this regard, but if it is true it presents everyone in a poor light. As has been said I would have tried to calm the lady down, made a call to the police almost instantly and asked them to get a policeman to the site ASAP if only to provide some comfort to the girl and take her to the police station for safekeeping. In the next breath I would have contacted control, appraised them of the situation and asked them to have a taxi at the next station to get her back to the original station. Hell I would have given her the cash myself!

We are told that the protection of children is of the utmost priory in society. What some of you suggest is that the railway simply washes its hands of a small girl alone at night and reject, entirely, the duty of care to look after vulnerable people and simply chuff off in to the distance without a care in the world. In all honesty, YOU are the idiots. I will excuse the children on this forum their opinions as they might lack some life experience but some of you need to have a long hard look at yourselves. The railway is not perfect and it does no harm to say, sorry we got this one wrong.

And before anyone starts of course I think the mother has a duty to care for the child and that the door was, probably, working but the railway and railway staff can not simply walk away from vulnerable people. No one on the train knew the girl was being looked after so, surely, you must assume the worst and act accordingly

Halleluia, an outbreak of common sense!

 

[Ferret]

my bold

I know the general view on here of the BTP but find me one plod who would be so dozy as to do this. His career would be ended then and there - how do you imagine the IPCC would judge his actions - clue massively below standard so dismiss! He would be trashed in the (national) media, the Welsh Assembly (you know, those who pay for ATW's services - might not lead to great consequences for the train crew either!) and Parliament in a way which makes the initial story look tame.

Indeed "Arrested for worrying about your abandoned child" - a great headline for the railways......

You'd like to think it was unlikely, but you'd think the same about the likelihood of this whole incident happening in the first place! Situations often escalate beyond control for the sole reason that somebody takes a gung ho attitude without thinking - just like the poster who I was responding to. Far better to calm a situation than escalate it by acting as he suggested.

 

[IanD]

So....the mother is possibly a liar as well as a moron???

I wouldn't call her either. The story is obviously based on an actual event but the reporting may have been exaggerated to heighten the dramatic effect. Or it could be repeating verbatim the conversation she had. Or the journalist may have been putting words in to her mouth. I wasn't there and I doubt whether you were either so how are we supposed to know how the conversation went?

 

[jon0844]

With respect, I'd rather a social worker than a peado.

There's a difference?

Oh wait, that's not real life - any more than there being a paedo sitting around a dark station on the off chance a nine year old girl is presented to him...

 

[gazzak]

There's a difference?

Oh wait, that's not real life - any more than there being a paedo sitting around a dark station on the off chance a nine year old girl is presented to him...

The point I was trying to make was that a social worker isn't the worst thing a 9 year old girl could encounter at a train station late at night, and for the record my own 3 kids aren't kept housebound due to Daily Mail scare stories.

But hey, what about that lying Mother and the doors?

 

[Waldgrun]

Would everyone reading this thread please pick up a coin and hold it in front of their face! What can you see if you are holding it horizontally between two fingers? One Side Only! The original news article is the same, in all the articles I have read over the years, you never get both sides.
There was a case at a station I worked at where a child (between the ages of 7 to 9 years old) fell between the train (a 4 Gig Mark 1) and the platform.
The platform in question is an Island one that is S shaped! Parents raised hell with local press, T.V. etc. Demanded that the station be rebuilt with straight platforms and the railways where stupid in building the platform in that way!
What was never raised, was that this child had opened the slam door by her self, and then launched her out Fallschirmjäger style (without looking)!
Railway management never gave this information to the press to balance the case, and that is what we are seeing in this case.

If you are wondering the shape of this platform was decided by the Admiralty not allowing the line to be built near a dockyard wall. Should they have taken some of the flak!

 

[Ferret]

But hey, what about that lying Mother and the doors?

Can somebody point me to a post where the Mother was accused of lying?

Is it at all possible that we can have a rational discussion on what happened, without having to sling mud at various other factions?

 

[DarloRich]

Can somebody point me to a post where the Mother was accused of lying?

Is it at all possible that we can have a rational discussion on what happened, without having to sling mud at various other factions?

I don’t think anyone has expressed things that simply, it is more the suggestion that because the doors will work 99.9% of the time they must have worked this time so the mother must have misspoken herself. She MIGHT be right – the inference is quite clear.

That said, I simply think, on the facts provided in the media report, that the situation wasn’t handled well. There are several posters who seem to have forgotten the duty of care owed. They might not like it but it exisits.

 

[Ferret]

I don’t think anyone has expressed things that simply, it is more the suggestion that because the doors will work 99.9% of the time they must have worked this time so the mother must have misspoken herself. She MIGHT be right – the inference is quite clear.

That said, I simply think, on the facts provided in the media report, that the situation wasn’t handled well. There are several posters who seem to have forgotten the duty of care owed. They might not like it but it exisits.

I think it was the crew who forgot about the needs of the young girl. Most of us on here are quite clear about that!

As for the Mother, she's not intentionally lying, she's just mistaken - because the doors had already been shut by the guard and the driver had been given the ready to start. I'm completely convinced of it. Of course, she can't be expected to know about dispatch arrangements, and so will have repeated her mistaken belief to the journalist, who won't have thought to check what they were printing.

 

[SETCommuter]

I think it was the crew who forgot about the needs of the young girl. Most of us on here are quite clear about that!

As for the Mother, she's not intentionally lying, she's just mistaken - because the doors had already been shut by the guard and the driver had been given the ready to start. I'm completely convinced of it. Of course, she can't be expected to know about dispatch arrangements, and so will have repeated her mistaken belief to the journalist, who won't have thought to check what they were printing.

But, how can you be completely convinced only having heard 1 side of the story ? I wouldn't want you serving on a jury, that much is for certain !!

 

[DarloRich]

I think it was the crew who forgot about the needs of the young girl. Most of us on here are quite clear about that!

As for the Mother, she's not intentionally lying, she's just mistaken - because the doors had already been shut by the guard and the driver had been given the ready to start. I'm completely convinced of it. Of course, she can't be expected to know about dispatch arrangements, and so will have repeated her mistaken belief to the journalist, who won't have thought to check what they were printing.

Exactly - I don’t think she would have any understanding of dispatch, interlock, railway operations and procedures. I also doubt the reporter would have either. Even if they did it is a better story without the whole truth

That is the point people need to remember. We might be around the railways everyday but most people aren’t. I assume she jabbed at the door button expecting it to open at any point until the train moved and became more and more worried when it didn’t. (I think we may be in agreement!)