Swiss Panoramic Trains

[Gordon]

Following the earlier thread on Swiss scenic routes I thought I would open a new thread specifically on this subject, as I noticed that Swiss Travel System has come up with a new marketing package called ‘Panoramic Journeys’ – a list of 10 routes – some of which are more than one line tagged together for marketing purposes.

I am looking forward to the debate and others’ views that this will hopefully stimulate


All the official blurbs in English here:

http://www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/highlights-en/panorama-journeys.html


Here is the list:


Glacier Express

Status: single ‘cruise’ train

My personal view:

Some may have seen my comments on this before. Undoubtedly well known due to its name, and ideal for long distance visitors who no doubt value the single train traversing multiple regions and railway companies.

However – several minus points.
Possible to do the same journey on ordinary – non supplement payable trains in almost the same overall time
You don’t see many (any?) glaciers on route! The name was coined when the train used the original Furka Pass summit route, from where you could clearly see the Rhone Glacier. The train no longer uses this route and even if it did the Rhone Glacier has receded so far in the last 30 years that is no longer visible from the Furka mountain line!


Bernina Express

Status: single ‘cruise’ train

My personal view: In my opinion, a better marketing offer than the Glacier Express. A spectacular route (more so than the Glacier given the Furka ‘problem’ cited above), A more manageable 4.5 hours overall journey. More Glaciers visible that from the Glacier Express (?)


GoldenPass Line

Status: ‘cobbled together’ three separate trains:
Project in progress to create gauge changeable vehicles to enable the creation of a single through train.

My personal view: Three separate trains metre gauge at each end of the journey, standard gauge in the middle (Interlaken – Zweisimmen). Disliked (one assumes) by tourists from outside Europe who ‘need’ a single train. However it is debatable whether any group ever actually goes all the way from Luzern to Montreux, given that in between sits Interlaken and the Jungfrau region, a must stop for most tourists.


Wilhelm Tell Express

Status: ‘cobbled together’ normal train and boat

My personal view: If you have Swiss Pass, the journey can be done independently with comparative ease. Could be argued it is disjointed but I don’t know the traffic statistics


Voralpen Express (Pre-Alpine Express)

Status: single ‘interregional’ train

My personal view: A good service. Encourages visitors to see the ‘less spectacular’ but equally ‘Swiss’ country


RegioExpress Lucerne-Bern & Lötschberger

Status: Separate single normal trains

My personal view: The Emmental route (perfect ‘lowland Swiss experience’) and the acknowledged classic Loetschberg mountain route. Overall, two scenic routes scenic and ‘Swiss’ in different ways, but questionable to link the two in one ‘package’



Jungfrau Railway

Status: Three separate trains need to get to the summit.

My personal view: Always touted as ‘the’ trip, undeniably interesting but the top section is mostly inside the mountain! I always maintain that Zermatt – Gornergrat is more spectacular for its almost constant open views all the way to the summit.


Lavaux-Simplon-Centovalli Line

Status: separate trains

My personal view: The classic Simplon route tagged onto the ‘spectacular’ Centovalli. I am not personally terribly attracted to the Centovalli, especially the bizarre and not that confortable ‘panoramic‘ sets. Unattractive sub surface stations at each end.


Jurafusslinie (Jura Foot Line)

Status: single normal train Basel - Geneva

My personal view: Quite a surprise to me to see this one in the list! However it is perfectly reasonable addition – plenty of views of the Jura, some lakeside running, plus some quite gorge like running through the Jura (and Switzerland’s shortest tunnel). BUT will come unstuck when the Basel – Geneva trains stop running direct from Bussigny to Morges (Lausanne avoider) in the next timetable!


Three City Line (Luzern – Zurich and Zurich – Chur)

Status: distinctly (!) separate single normal trains

My personal view:
Another surprise addition. Smacks of clutching at straws in the marketing department!



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[STEVIEBOY1]

The Chur To Arosa line is good, as with a bit of the Bernia line, there is a short section of on street running.

 

[Groningen]

Best ride would be Chur - Sankt Moritz - Tirano, because you can get than to Milano and have the choice to go back by Brig or Chiasso. Furthermore as far as i know the Interrail ticket is valid on the Bernina line. A one way ticket Chur to Zermatt is 117 Swiss francs. With Zermatt and Arosa you return the same way you came.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Interesting roundup.

To add to the Bernina Express comments - like the Glacier Express, it's arguably better done on normal service trains. You can hop off at high places like Brusio (for the helical viaduct), Alp Grüm (for the spectacular view down the valley) or Ospizio Bernina (for the summit lakes), and catch the next service. Also most of the local train coaches, except the Allegra units, have deep opening windows for when the weather's good, improving the prospects for a decent photo or three. Plus, you can experience travel on a mixed train with the odd goods wagon tacked on the back on various services.
Mixed trains also run on the Chur-Arosa line, which I'd also recommend - short and steep, with an enormous spectacular viaduct at Langwies.

The Glacier Express and Bernina Express trains are made up of carriages with panoramic windows that extend up into the roof, as is one first-class coach on the Wilhelm Tell run, which is otherwise a normal service train. While they might give you a slightly better view of some of the peaks, I think I prefer a window seat on a service train with opening windows, saving my Francs for food shopping at Migros.

Despite the tunnel section, the changes of train, and the expense, I'd still recommend the Jungfrau trip. With no more than normal walking boots, we managed the 1-hour trek across the snow to the Mönchsjochhütte, in September. Just gives you a little hint of what true mountaineers must experience.

Edit: Groningen - yes, Interrail is valid on the Bernina line Chur to Tirano (in fact on all the RhB), and it's also valid on the Trenord service from there to Milano, which has a pretty good section alongside the lake - think Dawlish-Teignmouth with mountains out to sea.

 

[Greenback]

I too prefer the normal service trains to the over hyped 'special' trains that are designed to fleece unsuspecting tourists.

 

[theageofthetra]

The cheapest way by far to do the RHB is to follow the 'man in seat 61's advice and buy an advance eur29 fare from Tirano to a variety of German stations from the DB site. Worked a treat for me.

 

[Groningen]

Except for 14:00, but from Tirano to Milano there is a train all day with 8 minutes past the whole hour a departure. Connection in Tirano is often bad; often good. Very variable timetable in Switzerland.

 

[Gordon]

The cheapest way by far to do the RHB

Beware of the gramatical notation of the initials rhb:

RHB (all caps) is the initials of the Rorschach Heiden Bergbahn

RhB is the initials for Rhätische Bahn

I too prefer the normal service trains to the over hyped 'special' trains that are designed to fleece unsuspecting tourists.

Interesting roundup.
To add to the Bernina Express comments - like the Glacier Express, it's arguably better done on normal service trains.

Oh absolutely agree with both comments, but on other forums in the past I have been taken to task for being too negative about the 'single train' services like the GEx and their benefit to organised tour groups, the less initiated (eg one-off or first time tourists from US or Asia) and non railway enthusiasts.

However I do think that the Bernina Express is a better offer than the Glacier Express, being a manageable single journey, which overcomes the somewhat complicated link between the RhB main line and the Bernina, very helpful for non enthusiasts and first timers, and those travelling straight through to Italy via scenic route.


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[eastwestdivide]

Beware of the gramatical notation of the initials rhb:

RHB (all caps) is the initials of the Rorschach Heiden Bergbahn

RhB is the initials for Rhätische Bahn


...

Excellent application of Muphry's Law there - anyone posting corrections to spelling/grammatical mistakes is bound to make a further mistake.

And like you say on the Glacier/Bernina Expresses, different horses for different courses - we might prefer the service trains, but the fact that they run the Glacier Express in 4 portions in the high summer indicates there's a demand for the through service. Don't know why you were taken to task for a personal preference (well, that's internet forums for you).

For proper panoramic views though, the RhB still run "open-air" carriages:
https://www.rhb.ch/en/leisure-trave...hools/charter-carriages/open-scenic-carriages