It's a bit more complicated than 'just stick shoes on them'. They'd need to source electrical parts for trains no longer in production, install them, give the trains a heavy refurbishment, deal with the ROSCOs and at that point they might as well just stick with the 458s, which assuming the refurbishment is good will do as good a job as the 350/2s.
Neither paths are entirely straightforward but my original point is they don't need the 458s to cover the service they are proposing from Dec 22 so just stick them in warm store.
The 458s and 350/2s are owned by the same ROSCO (Porterbrook).
Of note is that the 458 and 350/2s are both porterbrook owned, so they would seem to prefer this 458 solution. The 350s presumably have more value not being turned into 450s, whether that's as "flex" battery units or as straight 25kv units
To be honest though, given how every other conversion or refurbishment seems to have gone of late, I still feel that converting and refurbishing the 350/2s would have been a quicker move (and good for SWRs / Siemens spares inventory!). With both fleets owned by Porterbrook, it’s only time and money, but the 458s would without a shadow of a doubt have gone in the bin otherwise whereas the 350/2s wouldn’t. Heck, they could have even trialled the Flexx side of the units for routes such as Fawley or for something longer, the Salisbury 6.
With remembering that the 458s hardly have another home to go to. I don't know how many (if any?) vehicles from former 460s will be in the refurb, but they are unsuitable to 25kV conversion. Better to have work lined up for all of the rolling stock portfolio.
Highly unlikely any ex 460 vehicles are needed. They’re the obvious ones to remove as the 28 are to be reduced to four car, leaving the original units in their as built formations. (It also removes a major matter of concern for window glass fans.)
None - the refurbs will all be original 458 vehicles
Don’t think Siemens would be very happy with a fleet being maintained outside. Especially if they do well, putting their contract at risk. Plus we won’t see 350/2s until 730s are in. And I wouldn’t imagine that would be until after all 701s are running. Not sure when that would be.
Only the 350/1s are pure dual voltage out of the box I thought. And TSSSA wasn’t referencing the union of the same acronym but a Technical Support & Spares Supply Agreements for Rolling Stock between SWR, Porterbrook and Alstom.
Surprised, why not keep original 30?
Cost, I guess, and the reduced demand post pandemic.
Fair enough, I guess. Thanks.
When does the lease on the 450s expire? I wonder if there is a thought in SWR that with the 458s on rock-bottom lease costs they could (threaten to) activate the option on the other 8 sets and trim the 450 fleet if Angel won’t play ball?
8 won't make much of a dent in the 127 450s.
If the objective is to get rid of as many 450s on the Portsmouth Direct as possible, I'm not sure it would be entirely fair to say that none of them would be needed, unless the December 22 services can all be covered with 444s? (Seems unlikely)
However, we’re talking at a time when four will have been freed from the Reading line where they work now, plus those that the 458s displace from the Portsmouth Direct Line won’t really have anywhere to go… if demand doesn’t hugely increase I reckon you could get at least 15-20 450s off leased with all 36x 458s in service if not more, especially with a tighter TT.
But if commuting doesn’t return, you could off lease a bigger number as not needed.
Ah, thanks, so they aren't just going to be used down the Pompey road then?
The 442 plan based on the full 2019 timetable proposals was Portsmouth fasts and IIRC a positioning move on the mainline to or from Bournemouth or Poole at start and end of service. But 8 pairs from 9 in service would only cover the 2 tph fasts plus turnaround time, so the Portsmouth stoppers would have had to remain 450 operated.
Although now that the proposals are not due to happen, it seems like this could be perhaps a more realistic goal? The only new service IIRC is the London to Southampton stopper (a half-replacement for the London-Poole semi-fast) which I would hedge my bets on as being 450 operated, although I think people may be a bit more understanding about that one. If 450s are kept on all the local services in the South then you'd probably be able to get a good chunk of 450s off of the Portsmouth line by using 458s.
