SWR Class 458 to be retained

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When are the refurbished trains going to re-enter service? Thanks.

Apparently there's a chance they never will, according to some who say SWR have no plans to use them.

 

[Class15]

Apparently there's a chance they never will, according to some who say SWR have no plans to use them.

See post #2051.

 

[Invincible]

I am dying to post it, but have been specifically asked to (well instructed actually) not to pass it on, some new news about 458/4s.

I'll say it is something different in detail, and not entirely new in concept, but is a jigsaw puzzle piece that fits neatly with other gen of late.

Will see if anything comes of this?

Apparently there's a chance they never will, according to some who say SWR have no plans to use them.

But only rumours? Last published info from SWR and Porterbrook was to use them on the PDL.

 

[Wokingham]

have they started with the rest of the fleet or stopped at the first few? that might be your answer

 

[swt_passenger]

have they started with the rest of the fleet or stopped at the first few? that might be your answer

There’s 6 done and 2 in progress according to post #2043. That suggests work is continuing

 

[Goldfish62]

There’s 6 done and 2 in progress according to post #2043. That suggests work is continuing

Given that Widnes is ramping up to get through one unit every two weeks I'm not sure where this rumour that 3/4 units only were being done. Quite clearly all 28 are being done.

 

[swt_passenger]

Given that Widnes is ramping up to get through one unit every two weeks I'm not sure where this rumour that 3/4 units only were being done. Quite clearly all 28 are being done.

I was somewhat surprised by the question, based on reading the thread for a while…

 

[Monty]

Have I missed something? It felt the last 30 thread pages had a common theme of the ROSCO wanted to do the work, it was contracted for 4 units. Only 4 would be done. The drivers union were against introduction on the PDL but that's fine as SWR don't plan on using them anyway.

I'll be honest, I had no idea where this union thing has come from, I know the Driver's LDC at fratton quite well and as I understand they have no real opinion on the matter, probably because they haven't been approached about traction training on them yet. They certainly aren't opposed, not sure they have grounds to object anyway they are no different from the 458/5 cabs which are still in use, there isn't even a conversion course for 458/5 to /4, merely a signed brief. So sounds like railway hearsay and rumour.

 

[FOH]

I'll be honest, I had no idea where this union thing has come from, I know the Driver's LDC at fratton quite well and as I understand they have no real opinion on the matter, probably because they haven't been approached about traction training on them yet. They certainly aren't opposed, not sure they have grounds to object anyway they are no different from the 458/5 cabs which are still in use, there isn't even a conversion course for 458/5 to /4, merely a signed brief. So sounds like railway hearsay and rumour.

Indeed. Spouted and respouted as a fact!

I'm really hoping these things get another good innings. It was just the thread had such an air of negativity until the recent drift.

 

[Fincra5]

I'll be honest, I had no idea where this union thing has come from, I know the Driver's LDC at fratton quite well and as I understand they have no real opinion on the matter, probably because they haven't been approached about traction training on them yet. They certainly aren't opposed, not sure they have grounds to object anyway they are no different from the 458/5 cabs which are still in use, there isn't even a conversion course for 458/5 to /4, merely a signed brief. So sounds like railway hearsay and rumour.

This whole site is often like a messroom...

Lots of rumours

 

[Monty]

I don't forsee any serious problems with testing in the coming months, most of it is centered around the increased operating speed and the ASDO working reliably and so far so good.

 

[ebennett07]

But only rumours? Last published info from SWR and Porterbrook was to use them on the PDL.

A worker a Bournemouth depot had confirmed the 458s are nicer and do 100mph smoothly and all tests have gone well. So SWR will be using them idk why people are saying swr won't be if they're already being tested and stored at Bournemouth depot.

 

[Western Sunset]

The 458s are regularly running BM to Basingstoke and back most weekdays; mileage accumulation I assume.

 

[Bigfoot]

Employee Representatives also stated any agreement on the above would solely be for FFR to enable SWR to fulfil their contractual obligations. If the 458’s were to be retained for passenger services, cab improvements would need to take place before accepting these units for passenger services in line with ASLEF’s cab ergonomics policy.

 

[pompeyfan]

A lot of people post here in good faith, some have access to more accurate information than others, information can also change as plans change.

 

[Juniper Driver]

I don't forsee any serious problems with testing in the coming months, most of it is centered around the increased operating speed and the ASDO working reliably and so far so good.

Have they done anything to the computer?
Although it's good, it's a bit slow…and the missing station announcements if the stations are too close together.

 

[Goldfish62]

Have they done anything to the computer?
Although it's good, it's a bit slow…and the missing station announcements if the stations are too close together.

Windows 95...

 

[Monty]

Have they done anything to the computer?
Although it's good, it's a bit slow…and the missing station announcements if the stations are too close together.

Unchanged from what I understand.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Windows 95...

They have upgraded it with Windows 85?

I heard at one time it was running Windows 1.1 and then Windows 2 if there was such a thing.
I suppose at the time, Windows 95 was out, but it must be a thinned down version.
I have an early Windows version which has a lot of the bloat taken out.
Micro XP.

 

[DelW]

They have upgraded it with Windows 85?

I heard at one time it was running Windows 1.1 and then Windows 2 if there was such a thing.
I suppose at the time, Windows 95 was out, but it must be a thinned down version.
I have an early Windows version which has a lot of the bloat taken out.
Micro XP.

For a time line, I remember running a late version of Windows 2 in around 1989. It was quickly followed by the short lived 3.0, then by 3.1 which lasted several years in the early '90s. So those were all well before the Junipers were built.

XP was much later, I used it on a 2003(ish) laptop.

 

[Peter Sarf]

For a time line, I remember running a late version of Windows 2 in around 1989. It was quickly followed by the short lived 3.0, then by 3.1 which lasted several years in the early '90s. So those were all well before the Junipers were built.

XP was much later, I used it on a 2003(ish) laptop.

I seem to recall Windows XP was offered until 2002. Windows 2000 was for business and lasted about the same time. Then it was Windows 7. Vista was the one to avoid as was Windows 8 iirc.

Windows 95 was the big change that upset a number of users - the pop up start bar at the bottom. Before that it was just the desk top !.

Given that the computers in the Electrostars would have originally run Windows 95 I doubt very much a newer version of Windows much beyond Windows XP would be feasible. One just hopes the computer hardware is better built/speccified than the XP machines I was throwing away 2005-2010 - "Capacitor Plague" !.

 

[mullinsj08]

I seem to recall Windows XP was offered until 2002. Windows 2000 was for business and lasted about the same time. Then it was Windows 7. Vista was the one to avoid as was Windows 8 iirc.

Windows 95 was the big change that upset a number of users - the pop up start bar at the bottom. Before that it was just the desk top !.

Given that the computers in the Electrostars would have run Windows 95 I doubt very much a newer version of Windows much beyond Windows XP would be feasible.

Windows XP was released in 2001 and support lasted until 2014, Windows Vista was released in 2007 and Windows 7 was released in 2009.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Windows XP was released in 2001 and support lasted until 2014, Windows Vista was released in 2007 and Windows 7 was released in 2009.

Ah. You have woken a brain cell up - Istr thinking XP was so late in 2001 that it might as well be called Windows 2002 (many were looking for a follow on name in the same vein and Windows 2000).

Yes Vista was a dud replaced by 7, Then 8 was a dud replaced by 10. Never been sure what append to the number 9 probably skipped to avoid consistency !.

So the choice for Electrostars would have been an upgrade to Windows XP or Windows 7 if the hardware was really future proofed. I can imagine a whole new safety case being required !. Similar for Junipers (334, 458).

 

[Invincible]

Windows 95...

Guess would be the "embedded" windows 95 version just to run a non internet enabled application, rather than the full desktop version?
If running OK then there will be no security concerns or needs for updates.

However with the rollout of trackside 5G for on board WiFi, there is a chance to provide telemetry and diagnostic updates to the signal box/control centre of any train. If this ever happens to the 458 then the computer board, application, and operating system (with the latest windows 11 or Linux) will need upgrading.

 

[Mag_seven]

A reminder that this is a Traction and Rolling Stock section thread to discuss SWR Class 458s. If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

 

[Juniper Driver]

A reminder that this is a Traction and Rolling Stock section thread to discuss SWR Class 458s. If anyone wants to discuss anything else then they are welcome to start a new thread elsewhere.

Sorry my fault.

 

[swr444]

I see 458533 has its internal lights on… I wonder if it’s about to be resurrected

 

[HamBuoy]

Some photos of the 458 testing at 47soton.co.uk

 

[Bevan Price]

They have upgraded it with Windows 85?

I heard at one time it was running Windows 1.1 and then Windows 2 if there was such a thing.
I suppose at the time, Windows 95 was out, but it must be a thinned down version.
I have an early Windows version which has a lot of the bloat taken out.
Micro XP.

There was a Windows 2 - and a Windows 4; both somewhat flawed, I understand. Windows 3.1 was the first "good" version of Windows; version 3.0 was better than earlier versions, but short-lived and replaced by the much better 3.1

 

[slicedbread]

Back in post #2114 Bigfoot had mentioned:

Employee Representatives also stated any agreement on the above would solely be for FFR to enable SWR to fulfil their contractual obligations. If the 458’s were to be retained for passenger services, cab improvements would need to take place before accepting these units for passenger services in line with ASLEF’s cab ergonomics policy.

I had a little scout around and came across ASLEF's Cab ergonomics guidance here (https://aslef.org.uk/system/files/2022-01/ASLEFCabErgonomics_v3_2021.pdf)

It has a section in about legacy cabs which says:

"A cab environment assessment should be carried out ....

b. When the saloon accommodation undergoes refurbishment."

Which would cover the 458 referb. I guess

and it goes onto say:

4. A cab environment assessment must include the following:
a. An assessment of the Driver’s seat and second person’s seat.
b. An assessment of internal and structural crashworthiness.
c. An assessment of the cab ergonomics - using independent human factors specialists.
d. musculoskeletal risk assessment using an appropriate assessment tool (e.g. the RSSB’s musculoskeletal risk assessment tool (MAT)
e. An assessment of Headlight brightness.
f. An assessment of the air-conditioning or cooling and heating system to ensure:
i. Effective cooling and heating performance
ii. Effective filtration of airborne contaminants and viruses
g. An assessment of the anti-spall qualities of the windscreen
h. An assessment of the cab noise

Would the current 458 cabs fall foul of any of those?

I also noticed that the Legacy part of the doc was added in issue 6 which dates from Dec 2021, while the SWR 458 lease extension and the contracts to convert to 458/4 where all in place in April 2021.