SWR Metro fleet permanent withdrawals

[XCTurbostar]

SWR are to retain 12 707's for a bit longer.

SWR retains 12 Class 707 trains in boost to fleet availability

www.southwesternrailway.com

I think this was almost inevitable since 10 of those 12 are used in service every day.

 

[Meerkat]

SWR is waiting for manufacturer Alstom to supply a train that performs to specification and will deliver consistently better journeys for customers and colleagues. When they do, SWR will begin its extensive programme of testing, training and business mobilisation.

For a company press release that is a pretty scathing lambasting of their supplier!

Will this leave Southeastern short, or actually conveniently trim their costs and reduce capacity to nearer demand?

 

[Bigfoot]

For a company press release that is a pretty scathing lambasting of their supplier!

SWR didn't hold back in their BBC news press release either.

I think first/mtr are fed up. The majority of the employees were swt before and are very happy working in partnership with Siemens on a huge part of the fleet which is pretty reliable. There are many who just wish there had been a 707 follow on order.

There are reasons why that they didn't meet the requirements which I and most already understand and do not need to be brought up again.

 

[7031]

For a company press release that is a pretty scathing lambasting of their supplier!

Will this leave Southeastern short, or actually conveniently trim their costs and reduce capacity to nearer demand?

Indeed, and the way it's worded suggests to me that they're perhaps considering other options as well...

 

[Meerkat]

Will look a bit silly if a working train does get delivered and they haven’t made the drivers drive them yet…..

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Will look a bit silly if a working train does get delivered and they haven’t made the drivers drive them yet…..

How can the drivers learn to drive them if they don’t work? ASLEF will not usually accept learning a train until it has been accepted by the company their drivers work for, to date no 701s have been accepted by SWR.

 

[Meerkat]

How can the drivers learn to drive them if they don’t work? ASLEF will not usually accept learning a train until it has been accepted by the company their drivers work for, to date no 701s have been accepted by SWR.

ASLEF haven’t agreed they will drive them yet have they?

 

[Benno]

I hate to be that forumer, but where are you getting such information? Internally at SWR or elsewhere?

There are no 456s diagrammed to work from Monday that is SWR’s decision. They will go to Long Marston for storage approx 8 units per month from Jan to March.
What could be interesting though is that they aren’t withdrawn, just not being utilised. There may be a slim possibility that if availability of the metro fleet gets too bad, a couple of 456s could return to service for a short time. Although it is unlikely.

 

[Meerkat]

There are no 456s diagrammed to work from Monday that is SWR’s decision. They will go to Long Marston for storage approx 8 units per month from Jan to March.
What could be interesting though is that they aren’t withdrawn, just not being utilised. There may be a slim possibility that if availability of the metro fleet gets too bad, a couple of 456s could return to service for a short time. Although it is unlikely.

If they are withdrawn from Monday why take so long to get them out of the way to Long Marston?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

“12 out of 30 of SWR’s 707 fleet was due to move to the Southeastern network but, following an agreement signed between the two train companies, SWR’s lease on the units has been extended until August 2022.”

No, 12 out of 12 were due to move. The other 18 have already gone to Southeastern which is rather crucial - I notice it doesn’t address this until the end.

 

[43096]

For a company press release that is a pretty scathing lambasting of their supplier!

Will this leave Southeastern short, or actually conveniently trim their costs and reduce capacity to nearer demand?

There is also an admission in there that SWR themselves have screwed up the plan as they've basically not maintained trains that were to be replaced by the 701s. Essentially they've been too optimistic on 701 in-service, which given the serial issues with Aventras elsewhere is a failure on their part.

 

[gazr]

If they are withdrawn from Monday why take so long to get them out of the way to Long Marston?

Benno specifically said, "What could be interesting though is that they aren’t withdrawn". Looks like SWR are playing it safe, with 701s STILL a long way from entering service. There's a least a couple of short sidings at Wimbledon Park that can take a few units and not take up and space.

 

[Goldfish62]

Benno specifically said, "What could be interesting though is that they aren’t withdrawn". Looks like SWR are playing it safe, with 701s STILL a long way from entering service. There's a least a couple of short sidings at Wimbledon Park that can take a few units and not take up and space.

Wise decision. If the Plan B Work from Home advice gets withdrawn soon as appears is a possibility then extra capacity may be needed quickly.

 

[Snow1964]

How can the drivers learn to drive them if they don’t work? ASLEF will not usually accept learning a train until it has been accepted by the company their drivers work for, to date no 701s have been accepted by SWR.

So who is driving the test trains, I thought it was GBR drivers
Either GBR have accepted the units or doesn’t really make sense

Of course if GBR drivers are happy, then why not simply reallocate the services from the Government subsidised SWR to a company that has authorisation. With the Government as ultimate paymaster, it’s rather academic what legal name organisation runs the trains

 

[pompeyfan]

Just because GBRF drivers are happy to driver 701s for a few months / years, and Colas drivers 769s, does not mean that DCC for the TOC will be happy to accept something substandard for up to the next 40 years.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Here is a tweet from SWR in response to someone else asking about them. Apologies, I struggle with the new(ish) way of quoting on the forum so here is an image (with description for visually impaired members)

Image shows a Twitter conversation in which the verified SWR_Help account confirms withdrawal of 456s from Monday and quotes from the Train Service Manager that 456s were due off lease in February anyway and this has been brought forward.

I notice they say “off-lease” which contradicts what some reputable members in the know have said here about them being stopped but not withdrawn/off-leased. Having seen an earlier tweet in which SWR erroneously told a customer the North Downs Day Ranger is only valid on GWR - this is false - I would not be inclined to take everything that the Twitter team say too seriously.

Fleet list: I will begin working on an updated fleet status list and will post it on Monday to coincide with the 456’s withdrawal from service.

 

[Domh245]

Of course if GBR drivers are happy, then why not simply reallocate the services from the Government subsidised SWR to a company that has authorisation. With the Government as ultimate paymaster, it’s rather academic what legal name organisation runs the trains

You've confused GB Railfreight (GBRf) and Great British Railways (GBR - still yet to actually exist beyond a transition team & a wish). The GBRf drivers operating the test train don't have government as the ultimate paymaster in the same way that TOC drivers do

 

[Benno]

Here is a tweet from SWR in response to someone else asking about them. Apologies, I struggle with the new(ish) way of quoting on the forum so here is an image (with description for visually impaired members)

Image shows a Twitter conversation in which the verified SWR_Help account confirms withdrawal of 456s from Monday and quotes from the Train Service Manager that 456s were due off lease in February anyway and this has been brought forward.

I notice they say “off-lease” which contradicts what some reputable members in the know have said here about them being stopped but not withdrawn/off-leased. Having seen an earlier tweet in which SWR erroneously told a customer the North Downs Day Ranger is only valid on GWR - this is false - I would not be inclined to take everything that the Twitter team say too seriously.

Fleet list: I will begin working on an updated fleet status list and will post it on Monday to coincide with the 456’s withdrawal from service.

I doubt that the SWR Twitter team are aware of the full contractual details of the 456 fleet, but will have been made aware that the 456s will be out of service from Monday, and so their official line will be that they are withdrawn.

I seriously doubt you will see a 456 in service after the weekend, it would take a massive collapse of the 455 fleet for it to happen, but until SWR hand back the 456s to the Rosco and they leave the depot, there is a very very slim chance it could happen.

For your fleet list 456001, 456005 and 456017 are missing parts and are likely to be the first to leave the depot, possibly by road.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

4

Here is a tweet from SWR in response to someone else asking about them. Apologies, I struggle with the new(ish) way of quoting on the forum so here is an image (with description for visually impaired members)

Image shows a Twitter conversation in which the verified SWR_Help account confirms withdrawal of 456s from Monday and quotes from the Train Service Manager that 456s were due off lease in February anyway and this has been brought forward.

I notice they say “off-lease” which contradicts what some reputable members in the know have said here about them being stopped but not withdrawn/off-leased. Having seen an earlier tweet in which SWR erroneously told a customer the North Downs Day Ranger is only valid on GWR - this is false - I would not be inclined to take everything that the Twitter team say too seriously.

Fleet list: I will begin working on an updated fleet status list and will post it on Monday to coincide with the 456’s withdrawal from service.

The end lease date for 456 hasn’t changed, just they have no booked work from the timetable starting on Monday.

However the fleet department may choose to use up remaining miles on 456s to run a pair vice a 455 saving miles on the latter.

I seriously doubt you will see a 456 in service after the weekend, it would take a massive collapse of the 455 fleet for it to happen, but until SWR hand back the 456s to the Rosco and they leave the depot, there is a very very slim chance it could happen.

Using up miles in the 456s to save adding miles to mileage restricted 455s is very likely (and makes total sense) but will be done on a day to day basis by fleet until the 456s are off-leased in early February.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Given the extensive Raynes Park engineering works this weekend. I would be surprised if any 456s are out on Saturday or Sunday.

 

[Bessie]

Given the extensive Raynes Park engineering works this weekend. I would be surprised if any 456s are out on Saturday or Sunday.

I agree. Let’s make Friday 14 January farewell 456 day and get it trending. I’m not working so a trip to Clapham Junction/Wimbledon area is on the cards

 

[GW43125]

Looks like a trip up to London is due tomorrow afternoon. Supposing tomorrow is the last day, do we have any idea what the last booked 456 service might be?

I say booked because we all remember the Edinburgh 91s...

 

[Siemens Staines]

It looks like only three pairs are out today and two of them end at Wimbledon tonight, so there may not be very many sets out tomorrow?

456009+456011+455871 1D42 1432 Dorking - London Waterloo
set ends Wimbledon after 2J75 2336 London Waterloo - Hampton Court tonight

456022+456012+455864 2J42 1424 Hampton Court - London Waterloo
set ends Wimbledon after 1D73 2310 London Waterloo - Dorking tonight

456013+456021+455725 2O41 1501 London Waterloo - London Waterloo
set ends Clapham Yard after 2K69 2227 London Waterloo - London Waterloo tonight

 

[potentially]

456009+456011+455871

Jumped on 456009 when it was working 2J27 earlier today. Probably the one of the last few services if not many are out on Friday.

 

[Towers]

If we're doing pics then....

A couple of mine from last week, 009 & 019 at Waterloo.

Thanks to all those providing the recent gen here, I imagine it's ensured a fair few farewell rides that otherwise might not have happened!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Still a large proportion of Readings are 450, and 450 are also still minority on Windsor - often having two of five diagrams. What happened to the theories that 450s would increase usage hugely on both routes?

 

[boiledbeans2]

Given the extensive Raynes Park engineering works this weekend. I would be surprised if any 456s are out on Saturday or Sunday.

Note that there were 456's out last weekend despite engineering works in the Weybridge area.

I saw this set on Sunday.

Realtime Trains | 1111 Shepperton to London Waterloo | 09/01/2022

Real-time train running information for 1111 departure from Shepperton to London Waterloo on 09/01/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

On a Sunday, I'm sure they have surplus 455s, so didn't need to use 456s.

 

[swr444]

Still a large proportion of Readings are 450, and 450 are also still minority on Windsor - often having two of five diagrams. What happened to the theories that 450s would increase usage hugely on both routes?

Just wait until next week, virtually all Windsors will be 450 and a few 707s.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just wait until next week, virtually all Windsors will be 450 and a few 707s.

So presumably 4 x 8-450 and 1 x 10-707?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Worth adding that no Windsors are 707 at the moment.

It appears to have been 2 8-450, 2 8-455 and 1 10-458 for a long time, and the twelve 707s (five pairs out per day) have done four all day Shepperton diagrams, and one morning peak Shepperton diagram that then turns into a Weybridge diagram