SWR Metro fleet permanent withdrawals

[pompeyfan]

I hate to be that forumer, but where are you getting such information? Internally at SWR or elsewhere?

theres a twitter account that states they are a/the Train Service Delivery manager who often posts snippets of gen. They recently stated the above.

 

[gazr]

If the 456's are really going after this week, is there any way Wimbledon can give them a send-off by forming a 8 (or 10!!) formation for one day only? I'm guessing this would be pie in the sky, but it'll be cool if they did

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If the 456's are really going after this week, is there any way Wimbledon can give them a send-off by forming a 8 (or 10!!) formation for one day only? I'm guessing this would be pie in the sky, but it'll be cool if they did

At this time, they need to focus all the staff they’ve got on running the basic service, if the levels of sickness are so bad they need a further reduced timetable, anyway. That said, I believe the further reduced timetable is down to the stock shortage and COVID used as an excuse.

theres a twitter account that claims to be Train Service Delivery manager who often posts snippets of gen. They recently stated the above.

“claims to be” is an interesting choice of words… from this it suggests they might not be genuine? Could you possibly link it please as I’d be interested to see

 

[swt_passenger]

The possibility of 456 removal by February was first flagged up in this thread about a month ago, so in the present circumstance advancing by only a fortnight doesn't seem that unlikely, does it?

 

[swr444]

I hate to be that forumer, but where are you getting such information? Internally at SWR or elsewhere?

Train service delivery manager on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/stefanchybowski/status/1480116032320774144?s=21

If the 456's are really going after this week, is there any way Wimbledon can give them a send-off by forming a 8 (or 10!!) formation for one day only? I'm guessing this would be pie in the sky, but it'll be cool if they did

A guard and drivers nightmare!

If this is true, how is this going to help the current rolling stock situation? Surely this is just putting more stress on the 455 fleet?

More 450s being brought over from shortening 12 car services. Expect to see more 450s on suburban routes from next Monday

 

[Class 466]

They were going in February anyway, so it makes sense for them to go now.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Just the 4 pairs of 456s out today which seems to be their regular usage for the past month;

456009+456011+455852
456019+456024+455723
456020+456008+455733
456022+456012+455919

456003+456014 and 456013+456021 are the only other two pairs of 456 that appear to have worked in 2022.

458518 has returned to service. The first time I have noted that unit in use since late November.

 

[Desiro123]

Considering the 450s don't have gearboxes.

'Gearing' on modern units is normally a software mod that affects acceleration rather than changing out physical gears. On Desiros (like most modern trains) the traction motors directly drive the wheels. The 450s have been used on Hounslow rounders and Weybridge bays since day one and it doesn't get much more stop/start as that. The issue has stemmed from the doors which close quite slowly and the are quite easy for passengers to hold open which has made keeping to time an ongoing struggle.

I can assure you that the 450s do have a gearbox! It's a fixed ratio gearbox, but the motor output is not directly bolted onto the wheelsets.

 

[Juniper Driver]

At this time, they need to focus all the staff they’ve got on running the basic service, if the levels of sickness are so bad they need a further reduced timetable, anyway. That said, I believe the further reduced timetable is down to the stock shortage and COVID used as an excuse.

That's a bit unfair.

It's a shame they couldn't do a 455 and 456 in the new livery.
We've got the flower power unit anyway.

 

[Bigfoot]

If the 456's are really going after this week, is there any way Wimbledon can give them a send-off by forming a 8 (or 10!!) formation for one day only? I'm guessing this would be pie in the sky, but it'll be cool if they did

Only 3x456 permitted to run together

 

[Goldfish62]

If the 456's are really going after this week, is there any way Wimbledon can give them a send-off by forming a 8 (or 10!!) formation for one day only? I'm guessing this would be pie in the sky, but it'll be cool if they did

On the last day of the 2HAPs on the South Western, from memory around 1994, an eight car formation ran most of the day on the Reading line. It seemed to be an unofficial thing as there were no announcements about it.

 

[Towers]

Only 3x456 permitted to run together

Interesting, why is that? Usually 12 cabs, on BR-era DMUs anyhow...

 

[Juniper Driver]

Interesting, why is that? Usually 12 cabs, on BR-era DMUs anyhow...

Yup interesting pretty sure I've seen 4 units in a 158+159 combo.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Interesting, why is that? Usually 12 cabs, on BR-era DMUs anyhow...

Length, I believe is the reason. 4 x 456 is longer than 1 x 455 + 2 x 456

in addition to the nightmare of four units that don’t have gangwayed front ends operationally.

At this time, they need to focus all the staff they’ve got on running the basic service, if the levels of sickness are so bad they need a further reduced timetable, anyway. That said, I believe the further reduced timetable is down to the stock shortage and COVID used as an excuse.


“claims to be” is an interesting choice of words… from this it suggests they might not be genuine? Could you possibly link it please as I’d be interested to see

They are genuine.

 

[swr444]

Length, I believe is the reason. 4 x 456 is longer than 1 x 455 + 2 x 456

in addition to the nightmare of four units that don’t have gangwayed front ends operationally.


They are genuine.

if a passcom is pulled in a coach that there's no driver or guard in it, it becomes a nightmare as they'd have to go onto the live railway to access the other unit. If it happens in the waterloo area, you can imagine how much chaos this would cause.

 

[43096]

if a passcom is pulled in a coach that there's no driver or guard in it, it becomes a nightmare as they'd have to go onto the live railway to access the other unit. If it happens in the waterloo area, you can imagine how much chaos this would cause.

How is that any different to the permitted 455+456+456 combination?

 

[ChampsRacing]

if a passcom is pulled in a coach that there's no driver or guard in it, it becomes a nightmare as they'd have to go onto the live railway to access the other unit. If it happens in the waterloo area, you can imagine how much chaos this would cause.

We are instructed that if this happens between Wimbledon & Waterloo on instruction from control and phone a friend to EBS the set to the next station to clear the line. Downside of this, means come the next station the train needs to be terminated.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I can assure you that the 450s do have a gearbox! It's a fixed ratio gearbox, but the motor output is not directly bolted onto the wheelsets.

Indeed electric motors rotate at high speeds so gear ratios are around 4-5:1

 

[Towers]

We are instructed that if this happens between Wimbledon & Waterloo on instruction from control and phone a friend to EBS the set to the next station to clear the line. Downside of this, means come the next station the train needs to be terminated.

With no investigation of the reason it was activated?!

 

[Bigfoot]

With no investigation of the reason it was activated?!

Obviously an investigation when at the next station as to why alongside any termination activities. I can't believe this needed to be said.

 

[Towers]

Obviously an investigation when at the next station as to why alongside any termination activities. I can't believe this needed to be said.

I'm rather surprised at a policy of not immediately investigating why a passcom has been operated, to be fair.

If we're going to be grouchy; I rode on two 455+456+456 combinations this afternoon, on both trains the guard was in the middle as opposed to the rear unit. If the EBS is raised in the manner you describe, the rulebook would require either the guard or another competent person to travel in the rearmost unit - how is that issue approached?

 

[Bessie]

Will the 456s be working any diagrams this Saturday? I will be at Waterloo so might take my first photo of one having avoided the urge for 30+ years!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Will the 456s be working any diagrams this Saturday? I will be at Waterloo so might take my first photo of one having avoided the urge for 30+ years!

They are rather nice compared to 455s with their recent refurbishment making them very clean and fresh inside. It’s a shame they’re being withdrawn early.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Length, I believe is the reason. 4 x 456 is longer than 1 x 455 + 2 x 456

in addition to the nightmare of four units that don’t have gangwayed front ends operationally.

Oh, yeah I forgot about the cab ends.

 

[bramling]

I'm rather surprised at a policy of not immediately investigating why a passcom has been operated, to be fair.

If we're going to be grouchy; I rode on two 455+456+456 combinations this afternoon, on both trains the guard was in the middle as opposed to the rear unit. If the EBS is raised in the manner you describe, the rulebook would require either the guard or another competent person to travel in the rearmost unit - how is that issue approached?

The Rule Book does seem to imply that requirement is “if possible” - though the wording isn’t fully precise. One could construct an argument to say that changing units in such circumstances isn’t reasonably possible, though it could be stretching things somewhat.

As for continuing after a passcom, this is what LU have done for some years, so there is precedent. Whilst most LU stocks now have the ability to communicate with the driver, this hasn’t always been the case. The train would be stopped if departing a station, however.

 

[swr444]

The Rule Book does seem to imply that requirement is “if possible” - though the wording isn’t fully precise. One could construct an argument to say that changing units in such circumstances isn’t reasonably possible, though it could be stretching things somewhat.

As for continuing after a passcom, this is what LU have done for some years, so there is precedent. Whilst most LU stocks now have the ability to communicate with the driver, this hasn’t always been the case. The train would be stopped if departing a station, however.

The problem is that the 455/456s come to a complete stop when one is pulled and has to be reset to be able to move again, hence not being able to proceed to a safe place

 

[Snow1964]

I can assure you that the 450s do have a gearbox! It's a fixed ratio gearbox, but the motor output is not directly bolted onto the wheelsets.

I would question that statement

There is a fixed reduction gear (as motor turns faster than wheels), but there is no box around it. By definition a gearbox is a box or casing containing gears, and there are no enclosed gears.

 

[ChampsRacing]

I'm rather surprised at a policy of not immediately investigating why a passcom has been operated, to be fair.

If we're going to be grouchy; I rode on two 455+456+456 combinations this afternoon, on both trains the guard was in the middle as opposed to the rear unit. If the EBS is raised in the manner you describe, the rulebook would require either the guard or another competent person to travel in the rearmost unit - how is that issue approached?

It’s more to the point if the passcom is operated in the part of the train there’s no crew in so if the drivers in the 455 for example and the guard is in the rear most 456 but it’s operated in the middle 456 without having to get a line block operating the EBS is the only way to get to the next station to investigate why it was operated in the first place unless someone uses the call for aid and talks to the guard that is.

 

[WarrenTManager]

5725 back in traffic.
Formed as an 8 car with 6021/6013 today.

I would question that statement

There is a fixed reduction gear (as motor turns faster than wheels), but there is no box around it. By definition a gearbox is a box or casing containing gears, and there are no enclosed gears.

Attached is a cross section of an EMU power wheelset showing gearbox, flender coupling that connects traction motor to gearbox and traction motor.

 

[Robski_]

SWR are to retain 12 707's for a bit longer.

SWR retains 12 Class 707 trains in boost to fleet availability

www.southwesternrailway.com