• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

SWR not serving local travel needs and lack integrated ticket options (Bournemouth area)

Status
Not open for further replies.

zwk500

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Jan 2020
Messages
15,410
Location
Bristol
He spoke about sorting out the chord from the Weymouth line straight in to Yeovil Junction. Looks like the earthworks are there, not sure if there was ever any track? Might have to turf the heritage railway out though.
No track and would cut straight across the heritage centre and need a remodel of the station, but other than that, no problem! :lol:

A south-west chord IS being looked at in the context of providing connectivity between the WoE line and HoW line, but it's very much a theory at the moment.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

vikingdriver

Member
Joined
11 Mar 2010
Messages
314
No track and would cut straight across the heritage centre and need a remodel of the station, but other than that, no problem! :lol:

A south-west chord IS being looked at in the context of providing connectivity between the WoE line and HoW line, but it's very much a theory at the moment.

Unleash the pent up demand for south coast to south west travel! Or not!
 

AdamWW

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
4,691
Again, in general, these don't exist in Great Britain. There are some exceptions of which the London area is one, along with places like Merseyside or the West Midlands.

Plus Bus seems to be available for season tickets. It has limitations, and I don't know how the add-ons compare to a bus-only monthly (or whatever) pass but maybe there are places where the fact that it's multi-operator make it worthwhile. But only for the getting to the station bit; not really for journeys where you might want the flexibility to travel by rail or bus.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
5,017
Location
Cricklewood
Plus Bus seems to be available for season tickets. It has limitations, and I don't know how the add-ons compare to a bus-only monthly (or whatever) pass but maybe there are places where the fact that it's multi-operator make it worthwhile. But only for the getting to the station bit; not really for journeys where you might want the flexibility to travel by rail or bus.
It is cheaper than a bus operator ticket here in Bournemouth. A quarter PlusBus ticket in my region across all operators costs £140 and a morebus 90-day zone A ticket costs £145.

However, PlusBus tickets can't be sold if the train journey in question is wholly within the zone (which, in my example, regular season commuting between Poole and Bournemouth), so it's basically a useless add-on for commuting purposes.
 

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
3,035
Forgive me if this sounds bad, but it sounds like your gripe is that the SWR timetable doesn’t fit with your swimming schedule.
I think you have oversimplified the problem. Part of the issue is also the bus stop is closer to his house than Bournemouth station and Poole bus station is closer to the swimming pool than Poole railway station!
I'm feeling that the railway isn't useful for use by everyday commuter as well, making the point of the railway useless.
This was 15 years ago now but I used to commute from New Milton - Bournemouth and the service was perfectly adequate. There was also a healthy number of others who used to commute to Bournemouth from the east.
 

Doctor Fegg

Established Member
Joined
9 Nov 2010
Messages
2,126
Location
Charlbury
Moreover, unlike London, I can't find a period ticket which will cover both buses and trains in the region, allowing me to take a train to Poole from Bournemouth and transfer to a bus for nearby destinations.
Did you not research the transport provision before moving?
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
5,017
Location
Cricklewood
This was 15 years ago now but I used to commute from New Milton - Bournemouth and the service was perfectly adequate. There was also a healthy number of others who used to commute to Bournemouth from the east.
New Milton is outside BCP. It's even not part of South West England. Does anyone here use SWR trains to commute within BCP and think the service is good?
 

AdamWW

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
4,691
It is cheaper than a bus operator ticket here in Bournemouth. A quarter PlusBus ticket in my region across all operators costs £140 and a morebus 90-day zone A ticket costs £145.

However, PlusBus tickets can't be sold if the train journey in question is wholly within the zone (which, in my example, regular season commuting between Poole and Bournemouth), so it's basically a useless add-on for commuting purposes.

There are plenty of people who have a commute which extends outside a plusbus area.

Some of them are really quite small.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,914
Location
Redcar
Currently London and Durham

There absolutely is no charge to drive into the city of Durham. What they do charge is for what is effectively access to one street and only for a small portion of the day. It's in no way a reflection of your statement "some local governments are already charging a tax to drive in the city".

After being challenged on that you managed to come up with two and one of those isn't even true.
 

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
3,035
New Milton is outside BCP. It's even not part of South West England. Does anyone here use SWR trains to commute within BCP and think the service is good?
New Milton has the same service as Christchurch which is one of the places you were complaining about. Be as pedantic as you like about the local authorities, as though that makes any difference whatsoever, but if the service from New Milton was acceptable for commuting then the service from Christchurch also was.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
5,017
Location
Cricklewood
There are plenty of people who have a commute which extends outside a plusbus area.

Some of them are really quite small.
Not the case in Bournemouth here. The region is huge, equivalent to morebus zones AB already. Zone A covers the area governed by the BCP council and zone B is already outside BCP proper, covering Wimborne and Ferndown.
 

DerekC

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2015
Messages
2,302
Location
Hampshire (nearly a Hog)
He spoke about sorting out the chord from the Weymouth line straight in to Yeovil Junction. Looks like the earthworks are there, not sure if there was ever any track? Might have to turf the heritage railway out though.
I don't think there was ever an east to south chord, which is presumably what Richard Drax MP wants. There isn't much in the way of one, but the curvature might be interesting! And it would miss Yeovil Junction altogether.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,336
Location
Bolton
A quick point that I'm not sure has been recognised yet is that before the pandemic, trains from Poole to Bournemouth on weekday evenings were at:

2009 London Waterloo*
2040 London Waterloo
2054 London Waterloo
2154 London Waterloo
2254 Eastleigh
2354 Bournemouth*

* fast train making the trip in only 9 minutes

So although not frequent the service was consistent and ran rather late into the evening. Today's service is very poor by comparison really.
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
11,212
Driving and parking are a luxury in cities, only the rich can afford it. In order to avoid congestion and air pollution, some local governments are already charging a tax to drive in the city.
That's not so, and this belief is a fiction. We live in a pretty large city, are not "rich", and drive to far more places than we use rail to. Knowing far more about the rail system than the average, I do use rail when more convenient. However, that's not for a lot of journeys. Bournemouth/Poole is a pretty large urban area, so living there should give a good clue.

I do however like the comment about bicycles being impractical due to gradients, weather, etc. These are all very true, but somehow don't seem to have penetrated to those who unthinkingly advocate going by bike.
 

norbitonflyer

Established Member
Joined
24 Mar 2020
Messages
4,059
Location
SW London
I don't think there was ever an east to south chord, which is presumably what Richard Drax MP wants. There isn't much in the way of one, but the curvature might be interesting! And it would miss Yeovil Junction altogether.
Or is Drax talking about a possible service to Weymouth over the GWR route from Paddington, via Castle Cary? The best times by that route seem to be 2h57, (e.g the 1604 departure) exactly the same journey time as the direct trains from Waterloo. As the connection time at Castle Cary is more than 30 minutes, a direct Padd/Weymouth service should be able to beat that.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
Messages
10,749
I do however like the comment about bicycles being impractical due to gradients, weather, etc. These are all very true, but somehow don't seem to have penetrated to those who unthinkingly advocate going by bike.

In the context my query about bike as an option (well answered by the OP of course) was not unrelated to the fact that the journey is to a swimming pool, thus perhaps for exercise, so plausible at least on face value (I assumed) that it could be an option and hills less of an issue perhaps. If people unthinkably advocate going by bike I am not one of them in this instance....Of course the growing prevalence of e-bikes may well change this dynamic over time too.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,336
Location
Bolton
A quick point that I'm not sure has been recognised yet is that before the pandemic, trains from Poole to Bournemouth on weekday evenings were at:

2009 London Waterloo*
2040 London Waterloo
2054 London Waterloo
2154 London Waterloo
2254 Eastleigh
2354 Bournemouth*

* fast train making the trip in only 9 minutes

So although not frequent the service was consistent and ran rather late into the evening. Today's service is very poor by comparison really.
Another point that's worthy of note here is that, despite their spacing being perhaps less than optimal for this kind of journey, there were at least three trains per hour for most of the day between Bournemouth and Poole before the pandemic. This makes it slightly more likely that there would be a train at a close enough to the time to when someone considering the train would want to arrive or depart. It also means that if plans change or disruption occurs there's more likely to be an alternative service.

Today's two aren't so well spaced either despite there being fewer services. The former service was also rather better than today's for anyone using Parkstone or Branksome. Both stations lie in a heavily built up area with a large residential catchment.
 

packermac

Member
Joined
16 Sep 2019
Messages
543
Location
Swanage
New Milton is outside BCP. It's even not part of South West England. Does anyone here use SWR trains to commute within BCP and think the service is good?
You will have to define what you think is good, are you looking for some sort of Metro service pattern?
There are three trains an hour (or more) between Bournemouth and Poole most of the day and numerous buses by More and Yellow Buses. Outside of big cities transport links seem pretty good to me.
West of Poole however they are now awful even with the current timetable. Down to one train per hour (I doubt the second will ever return) and the latest you can leave London is 2035 or Weymouth 2000 to get to the opposite end of the line.
I suspect this is why Drax is bleating about via Yeovil, but as usual he is off beam, he even believed the SWR proposal (spin) about making the second London service go to Portsmouth as an improvement.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,164
It is cheaper than a bus operator ticket here in Bournemouth. A quarter PlusBus ticket in my region across all operators costs £140 and a morebus 90-day zone A ticket costs £145.

However, PlusBus tickets can't be sold if the train journey in question is wholly within the zone (which, in my example, regular season commuting between Poole and Bournemouth), so it's basically a useless add-on for commuting purposes.
I never knew anyone commuting between Bournemouth and Poole on the train, being from the area, partly because Bournemouth station is not centrally located and partly because for Bournemouth, Branksome, Parkstone, and Poole, there has always been a frequent bus service with a journey time hardly much longer than the train (end to end around 25 minutes off-peak). The old 101-105 group of services (nowadays m1/m2) had long offered a bus between Bournemouth Square and Poole Bus Station at least every 5 minutes, all serving Branksome en route and 8 per hour serving Lower Parkstone. This is not even counting any later Yellowbuses additions.

Hamworthy/Turlin Moor had been well served from Poole by the 91-94 group of services (nowadays 8/9) with at least 4 buses an hour.

Bournemouth - Boscombe/Pokesdown - Christchurch was well served by Yellowbuses 20-23 group of services as a high frequency corridor (again every 5-6 minutes or so) plus Wilts & Dorset's 121-124 group. (Not sure about route numbers here these days.)

I don't see why anyone in the conurbation ever needed to commute by train. The area has an excellent bus network on the main rail routes by any stretch of imagination with a far superior service than rail and has no need for rail to serve this market.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,336
Location
Bolton
If you're going between Poole and somewhere that's actually close to Bournemouth station the train is reasonably competitive with that 9/10 minute express journey time, though it's a little longer on trains with the two stops and overwhelmingly you'll need to time it just right. However if you're allowing say 25 minutes to get between Bournemouth Square and the station it completely removes the benefit.
 

infobleep

On Moderation
Joined
27 Feb 2011
Messages
13,438
Had the Somerset and Dorset Joint Railway been rationalised instead of closed in 1966, there might now be an additional service between Bournemouth and Poole continuing North to Bath. It's not inconceivable to imagine that this might have been concentrated on Bournemouth Central station.
I always felt that was one line they should have kept open as a route north but I'm no expert and it probably shows.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,336
Location
Bolton
I always felt that was one line they should have kept open as a route north but I'm no expert and it probably shows.
A coach link between Bournemouth and Salisbury would probably be worth subsidising as part of a long-distance rail provision. It could probably be scheduled in an hour with one stop at Ringwood, which would bring that area into the national network as it currently is very remote from it. One service per hour would probably be able to connect with trains in the Warminster direction at Salisbury. The coach, unlike a train, could also serve the centre of Bournemouth as well as Bournemouth station.

These kinds of ideas are just as good as restricting urban parking or charging driving in urban centres though, and all are currently fantasy.
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
21,363
A coach link between Bournemouth and Salisbury would probably be worth subsidising as part of a long-distance rail provision. It could probably be scheduled in an hour with one stop at Ringwood, which would bring that area into the national network as it currently is very remote from it. One service per hour would probably be able to connect with trains in the Warminster direction at Salisbury. The coach, unlike a train, could also serve the centre of Bournemouth.

These kinds of ideas are just as good as restricting urban parking or charging driving in urban centres though, and all are currently fantasy.
X3 is one hour 30 minutes between Salisbury and Bournemouth - could a direct coach really bring that under an hour?

If an hourly bus service is running commercially, is a coach saving 30 minutes using the same route justified?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
33,050
Or is Drax talking about a possible service to Weymouth over the GWR route from Paddington, via Castle Cary? The best times by that route seem to be 2h57, (e.g the 1604 departure) exactly the same journey time as the direct trains from Waterloo. As the connection time at Castle Cary is more than 30 minutes, a direct Padd/Weymouth service should be able to beat that.
Why would he mention “linking up to the Salisbury route”, if he was aiming at Castle Cary?
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
5,017
Location
Cricklewood
Another point that's worthy of note here is that, despite their spacing being perhaps less than optimal for this kind of journey, there were at least three trains per hour for most of the day between Bournemouth and Poole before the pandemic. This makes it slightly more likely that there would be a train at a close enough to the time to when someone considering the train would want to arrive or depart. It also means that if plans change or disruption occurs there's more likely to be an alternative service.

Today's two aren't so well spaced either despite there being fewer services. The former service was also rather better than today's for anyone using Parkstone or Branksome. Both stations lie in a heavily built up area with a large residential catchment.

That's my point of this post. It's a pity that Parkstone, Branksome or Pokesdown do not have any useful commuter services which allow residents to reach either of the town centres by train. Not only such services are useful to commuters but they can serve as a "neighbourhood railway" to carry people between families, markets, restaurants, banks, etc. If there are 3 trains per hour scheduled 20 minutes apart, they will become a useful local service with reasonable competitiveness.

X3 is one hour 30 minutes between Salisbury and Bournemouth - could a direct coach really bring that under an hour?

If an hourly bus service is running commercially, is a coach saving 30 minutes using the same route justified?

I don't think it's possible. The A338 north of Ringwood is just some slow single carriageway rural roads without the possibility for getting express service. Unless the whole of A338 is upgraded to the standard of Wessex Way, there won't be any significant time saving possible. The biggest time saving should come from skipping Boscombe, like X1, X2 and X6 already doing now, and this can save 8 minutes from the trip. However, X3 is now the only express route from the hospital to Boscombe so this change may not be possible.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,336
Location
Bolton
X3 is one hour 30 minutes between Salisbury and Bournemouth - could a direct coach really bring that under an hour?

If an hourly bus service is running commercially, is a coach saving 30 minutes using the same route justified?
Given that the majority of the existing train services offer a time of just less than 90 minutes with one change I think that going down to 60 minutes would have a very clear impact, yes.

As to feasibility the route along the A338 is less than 28 miles. A car could manage in 40 minutes so the only real question is whether 60 minutes is realistic taking account of likely congestion at various times of day.
 

miklcct

On Moderation
Joined
2 May 2021
Messages
5,017
Location
Cricklewood
Given that the majority of the existing train services offer a time of just less than 90 minutes with one change I think that going down to 60 minutes would have a very clear impact, yes.

As to feasibility the route along the A338 is less than 28 miles. A car could manage in 40 minutes so the only real question is whether 60 minutes is realistic taking account of likely congestion at various times of day.
The scheduled running time of X3 is 85 minutes in the morning, 80 minutes in the afternoon, and 65 minutes for the final departure running the whole length. Therefore 60 minutes is realistic in late night if we take out Boscombe and the hospital from the route, but unlikely in daytime.

Also, I question the commercial and social viability to speed up the X3 any further as the hospital is a major en-route stop.
 

21C101

Established Member
Joined
19 Jul 2014
Messages
2,555
Why would he mention “linking up to the Salisbury route”, if he was aiming at Castle Cary?
I believe he is talking about the south chord into the GWR goods station at Yeovil Junction which was built when the rest of the line was built but never had track laid on it.

The idea has been around since the '80s to lay track on it and bring the down Island platform at Yeovil in to use to reverse the Westbury to Weymouth service there to provide interchange.

The most recent iteration of this idea involves double track between Dinton and Tisbury so that all Waterloo to Salisbury trains can run to Yeovil and stops can be omitted on Waterloo to Exeter services (ultimately post a Woking flyover with a third hourly London to Salisbury service enabling trains to run non stop from London to Yeovil other than calls at Salisbury and Clapham Junction giving a journey time from London to Yeovil Junction of one hour 40 (about 2h 25 to Exeter Central calling at Crewkerne, Axminster, Honiton and Cranbrook)

At Yeovil Jct the train would divide into Barnstaple or Okehampton (ultimately Plymouth) and Weymouth portions.

Given that trains from Yeovil Pen Mill to Weymouth do it with calls at Maiden and Dorchester West in 38 minutes (28 minutes to Dorchester), it can be seen that with a moderate line speed increase from the current 60 to 80 or 90 between Yeovil and Dorcherster a journey time to Weymouth of 2h 15 and Dorchester of 2h 05 would be doable.

This is the thick end of an hour faster than the current journey time from Weymouth to Waterloo of three hours (2h 50 from Dorchester) and also makes travelling from Dorchester to places like Salisbury and Exeter feasible.

That tends to get the local MPs attention (to be fair one of them might well have hatched the plan in the first place while wearing a different hat).

None of this is greatly different to what Chiltern have already done.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top