SWR Strike Timetables

[ABDeltic]

Does anyone have any feedback on whether trains were overcrowded today?

 

[Cletus]

If you look on the SWR website there is a table which explains for each date when the journey planners will be updated. It usually worth checking the TOC websites for such things.

Cheap Train Tickets | No Booking Fees | South Western Railway

Buy cheap train tickets and check train times with South Western Railway. Save up to 50% with Advance tickets, pay no booking fees and get rewarded with SWR Rewards.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Thanks for the link.

Hadn't twigged how drastic the cuts would be. Now have decide whether to cancel my trip with the hassle of trying to get refunds on train tickets, try to re-plan everything over the weekend or just wing it.

 

[boiledbeans2]

I've always wondered why stations like Berrylands are not served, both on strike timetables and action-short-of-strike timetables.

Berrylands has no ticket barriers and is often unstaffed on normal days anyway. So it's closure can't be because of lack of station staff?

 

[paul_l]

Does anyone have any feedback on whether trains were overcrowded today?

My wife was on the initial 715 guildford to waterloo via epsom this morning, she described it as full from London Road onwards, with people at later stations pleading to be let on, and the train gradually picking up delays as people tried to get on at each station

 

[ABDeltic]

My wife was on the initial 715 guildford to waterloo via epsom this morning, she described it as full from London Road onwards, with people at later stations pleading to be let on, and the train gradually picking up delays as people tried to get on at each station

That is appalling, I do think this timetable was an over reaction compared to other TOCs. I am doing Andover to Waterloo tomorrow on the first of the only two through trains. It was a 9 car today so hope it's OK. I think the inner London trains may be worse in commuting times and longer distance crowded in off peak times but maybe I'll be proved wrong..

 

[HamworthyGoods]

That is appalling, I do think this timetable was an over reaction compared to other TOCs. I am doing Andover to Waterloo tomorrow on the first of the only two through trains. It was a 9 car today so hope it's OK. I think the inner London trains may be worse in commuting times and longer distance crowded in off peak times but maybe I'll be proved wrong..

I’m not sure how it’s an over reaction if that is all that can be resourced within the operational staff available.

 

[Kite159]

That is appalling, I do think this timetable was an over reaction compared to other TOCs. I am doing Andover to Waterloo tomorrow on the first of the only two through trains. It was a 9 car today so hope it's OK. I think the inner London trains may be worse in commuting times and longer distance crowded in off peak times but maybe I'll be proved wrong..

I suspect this week won't be as bad for long distance commuters as some would have already finished for the year or switch to working from home, the lack of decent evening services (from a glance it's around a 20 minute wait at Basingstoke from the XX:30 Southampton to the Salisbury shuttle, last train being 19:30) probably means those who had planned to have some end of year drinks with work colleagues (which does happen this time of year) will decide not to bother.

The hardest hit will be those who don't have the option to working from home.

 

[ABDeltic]

I suspect this week won't be as bad for long distance commuters as some would have already finished for the year or switch to working from home, the lack of decent evening services (from a glance it's around a 20 minute wait at Basingstoke from the XX:30 Southampton to the Salisbury shuttle, last train being 19:30) probably means those who had planned to have some end of year drinks with work colleagues (which does happen this time of year) will decide not to bother.

The hardest hit will be those who don't have the option to working from home.

Thanks for the replies, I was was wrong to call it an over reaction but there do seem to be problems in the London area. I think SW could have done a bit more than they did for what Is a 3 week issue?

 

[infobleep]

A long standing problem with public forums, a very reason that few railway professionals (present or past) get involved in same I would wager. Take the issue of stock trapped in depots during strike/work to rule etc., the fact depot shunters are required, plus (often) depot panelmen, oh, and of course, PU duties are at many depot locations are the domain of depot drivers, who might (I have no idea about current issues??) not be available in some scenarios, so at such locations main line drivers won't touch with a barge pole. It is a fact that operational issues (in their full context) are seldom understood by most outside (and some within, I can confirm!) the industry. I only speak as I found, past tense.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2022 ==

Now, here's a challenge for those with a genuine interest in railway operating: I know I bang on sometimes on here, but taking in to account some of that to which I mention, although past tense, much will likely still be the case today. There are two industry groups who have to take all (operating) scenarios in to account when planning a train service, that which the public see's day in day out, including during disputes etc. These groups are Train Planners/Rosterers and Controllers. They have to take account of everything else, stock maintenance, signalling cover, train crew availability, infrastructure maintenance etc (these are some of the basics that are crucial). It is not just as simple as running a 'unit' from 'A to B to A to B to A' etc (something that was suggested to me by someone, in all honesty, many years ago).

It has oft' been said by those in the know, good train planners are hard to come by (I would say they are a dying breed), and I suggest the same applies to the Rostering and Control sides, so my challenge today on here, to anyone who thinks they can do better than those currently in the job, is get in touch with your local TOC. If all you want to do is winge, then do so elsewhere....

No idea if I could do a better job but it would be an interesting job for you.

However, I like my current job and industry too much to want to switch.

Someone should do a documentary on train planners if they haven't already.

 

[gabrielhj07]

No idea if I could do a better job but it would be an interesting job for you.

However, I like my current job and industry too much to want to switch.

Someone should do a documentary on train planners if they haven't already.

This video, while not exactly a day in the life of a train planner, details some of the work that they do.

 

[infobleep]

The guy in the ticket office at Whitton has been in both yesterday and today, with nothing to do!

It’s self-despatch there anyway (and I’m pretty sure it is at all of the unserved stations on the line too).

I guess in this case the station is open and people can buy tickets.

What would seem odd is if staff had to go in with nothing to do what so ever, as all they are doing is adding to global warming, if they drove in that is.

 

[Taunton]

Also - extra stops have been added to the Reading-Waterloo service to include Whitton by the looks of things.

Bizarrely, they are only stopping there 1000-1500 and 1900-2200.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

No idea if I could do a better job

Sorry, no offence meant (to anyone). It was a good career, but to see what's going on today, whereby the industry seems to be heading very much the wrong way, I find the whole thing very sad...

 

[deepeetw]

And now ASLEF are out on the 5th January too (albeit depot drivers only).

Train drivers announce new January strike date

The first week of the new year will be marked by rail strikes as drivers take action over pay.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[infobleep]

And now ASLEF are out on the 5th January too (albeit depot drivers only).

Train drivers announce new January strike date

The first week of the new year will be marked by rail strikes as drivers take action over pay.

www.bbc.co.uk

I thought depot drivers were RMT. Or is it a mix of the 2?

 

[pompeyfan]

I thought depot drivers were RMT. Or is it a mix of the 2?

Depot drivers are ASLEF, shunters (the people that control movement within the depot amongst other things) are predominantly RMT

 

[infobleep]

Depot drivers are ASLEF, shunters (the people that control movement within the depot amongst other things) are predominantly RMT

Thanks for clarifying this. So are the people controlling the movements like signallers, and moving points or just people saying which train can leave and then coordinating that with the signallers?

Incorrectly, I thought shunters were drivers. I've learned something new.

 

[Kite159]

And now ASLEF are out on the 5th January too (albeit depot drivers only).

Train drivers announce new January strike date

The first week of the new year will be marked by rail strikes as drivers take action over pay.

www.bbc.co.uk

At least it makes the planners job easier as they can simply go "no trains today" rather than trying to plan a late start up

 

[87015]

At least it makes the planners job easier as they can simply go "no trains today" rather than trying to plan a late start up

The 5ths already been planned and bid. It will need undoing and rebalancing.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

t least it makes the planners job easier as they can simply go "no trains today" rather than trying to plan a late start up

The more likely scenario is that they will need to rework the plans, based on how many bodies (people) are expected to be available to cover any positions vacant due to industrial action. If location X indicates that they can still cover certain positions, but only for certain hours (of the day) then the planners can base their revised workings accordingly, but if location Y says they can't cover duties at all that day, then nothing will move to/from that location.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The 5ths already been planned and bid. It will need undoing and rebalancing.

At least it makes the planners job easier as they can simply go "no trains today" rather than trying to plan a late start up

To try and give some context for non planners - ‘balancing’ is making sure the right number of trains start and finish at each location.

Some locations on the network are ‘self-balancing’ eg the same number of trains start from that location as finish so as long as fuel cycles work they can just be left there and do the next day.

Where the plan will need recasting is say 4 units start at X on the day and 6 units start at Y but then at the end of the day it swaps round with 6 units finishing at X but 4 at Y etc. A train service isn’t necessarily self-balancing. Which means you can’t just take a days train service out with out changing something else.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Thanks for clarifying this. So are the people controlling the movements like signallers, and moving points or just people saying which train can leave and then coordinating that with the signallers?

It varies depending on the location concerned. I speak historically, but suspect much is still the same for very good (safety) reasons. At some smaller stabling locations exit/entrance to the sidings is controlled by the local/main line signal box, ASC or whatever, as the entrance to/from said sidings will be track circuited. There will however also likely be a shunter (person) who liaises with the signal box and gives instructions to the drivers of trains in the sidings, and may also be required to ride with those train movements in or out of sidings. If that latter is required, after one move say, out of a siding to the station, nothing else will be able to leave those sidings until the shunter has returned to the sidings (normally on foot if the sidings are off the end of a platform) to change any hand points and then ride with the next move etc. RO2 grade have in the past undertaken such duties at some locations as part of their duties.

At larger depots, some (arrival/departure) sidings will likely be track circuited, so entry/exit to/from the main line will be controlled by the main signalbox/ASC. But this will only form part of the movement. Once in depot limits, control of movements may go over to a depot panel (ground frame for ease of explanation), which controls movements coming off/going out to the main line, working in conjunction with the main line signal box. This depot panel will then liaise with the shunter (person) on the ground in the depot, who will change any hand operated points as required, and then liaise with the driver(s) to ensure the latter know exactly where (in the depot) they are expected to take their train. In addition at some locations, main line drivers undertake only part of a movement, and depot drivers undertake other parts. What's the point in tying up effectively hours of driving time (for main line drivers) in work on depot, when much of this work can be given over to depot drivers, who I will add, earn their keep and some at a few locations I know.

These procedures, however they may have changed or been updated over the years, are in place for very sound reasons, make no mistake.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2022 ==

To try and give some context for non planners

Thank you indeed..

 

[Lifelong]

My wife was on the initial 715 guildford to waterloo via epsom this morning, she described it as full from London Road onwards, with people at later stations pleading to be let on, and the train gradually picking up delays as people tried to get on at each station

Was on this today. Horrible, horrible journey and full from Effingham Junction.

 

[pompeyfan]

In regards to just the depot drivers being on strike, I would imagine Salisbury, Farnham and both Wimbledon and Clapham will be particularly affected, Bournemouth I’m not sure on how far drivers sign within the depot (Fratton and Northam should be okay). I would imagine as well as many trains as possible will be out berthed as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2022 ==

It varies depending on the location concerned. I speak historically, but suspect much is still the same for very good (safety) reasons. At some smaller stabling locations exit/entrance to the sidings is controlled by the local/main line signal box, ASC or whatever, as the entrance to/from said sidings will be track circuited. There will however also likely be a shunter (person) who liaises with the signal box and gives instructions to the drivers of trains in the sidings, and may also be required to ride with those train movements in or out of sidings. If that latter is required, after one move say, out of a siding to the station, nothing else will be able to leave those sidings until the shunter has returned to the sidings (normally on foot if the sidings are off the end of a platform) to change any hand points and then ride with the next move etc. RO2 grade have in the past undertaken such duties at some locations as part of their duties.

At larger depots, some (arrival/departure) sidings will likely be track circuited, so entry/exit to/from the main line will be controlled by the main signalbox/ASC. But this will only form part of the movement. Once in depot limits, control of movements may go over to a depot panel (ground frame for ease of explanation), which controls movements coming off/going out to the main line, working in conjunction with the main line signal box. This depot panel will then liaise with the shunter (person) on the ground in the depot, who will change any hand operated points as required, and then liaise with the driver(s) to ensure the latter know exactly where (in the depot) they are expected to take their train. In addition at some locations, main line drivers undertake only part of a movement, and depot drivers undertake other parts. What's the point in tying up effectively hours of driving time (for main line drivers) in work on depot, when much of this work can be given over to depot drivers, who I will add, earn their keep and some at a few locations I know.

These procedures, however they may have changed or been updated over the years, are in place for very sound reasons, make no mistake.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2022 ==


Thank you indeed..

Great explanation. Certainly better than I could have managed.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

In regards to just the depot drivers being on strike,

etc., yes, that sounds about right from my time, and I reiterate I am speaking (technically) historically now. At Bournemouth West, ML drivers were relieved on what we called 'D6' (6 road) inbound, prior to the washers. As said, things may have changed, I know'eth not !

 

[gravitystorm]

Does anyone have any feedback on whether trains were overcrowded today?

The Monday morning 0800 (first train) from Motspur Park had left behind passengers, as I overheard one of them on the phone as he was walking away from the station. My wife couldn't get on the 0830, and I estimate there were about 25 other people who didn't manage it and were left behind (the photo shows part of the platform just after the doors closed). The 0900 was cancelled, so the left-behind passengers were having to figure out whether to wait for an hour(!) for the next train, walk+bus to Morden for the Tube, or walk+bus to Raynes Park with the risk of being left-behind there too.

In 2019 Motspur Park had 6tph, more recently 4tph, now only 2tph. And the capacity cuts are even greater than that, since the 6tph was 6x10 car and now it's 2x8 car so 60 carriages per hour down to only 16 carriages per hour.

 

[infobleep]

It varies depending on the location concerned. I speak historically, but suspect much is still the same for very good (safety) reasons. At some smaller stabling locations exit/entrance to the sidings is controlled by the local/main line signal box, ASC or whatever, as the entrance to/from said sidings will be track circuited. There will however also likely be a shunter (person) who liaises with the signal box and gives instructions to the drivers of trains in the sidings, and may also be required to ride with those train movements in or out of sidings. If that latter is required, after one move say, out of a siding to the station, nothing else will be able to leave those sidings until the shunter has returned to the sidings (normally on foot if the sidings are off the end of a platform) to change any hand points and then ride with the next move etc. RO2 grade have in the past undertaken such duties at some locations as part of their duties.

At larger depots, some (arrival/departure) sidings will likely be track circuited, so entry/exit to/from the main line will be controlled by the main signalbox/ASC. But this will only form part of the movement. Once in depot limits, control of movements may go over to a depot panel (ground frame for ease of explanation), which controls movements coming off/going out to the main line, working in conjunction with the main line signal box. This depot panel will then liaise with the shunter (person) on the ground in the depot, who will change any hand operated points as required, and then liaise with the driver(s) to ensure the latter know exactly where (in the depot) they are expected to take their train. In addition at some locations, main line drivers undertake only part of a movement, and depot drivers undertake other parts. What's the point in tying up effectively hours of driving time (for main line drivers) in work on depot, when much of this work can be given over to depot drivers, who I will add, earn their keep and some at a few locations I know.

These procedures, however they may have changed or been updated over the years, are in place for very sound reasons, make no mistake.

Very interesting. Thanks.

Was on this today. Horrible, horrible journey and full from Effingham Junction.

Is this why it got heavily delayed at Claphsm Junction with no reason given on the online departure board? I had a look given what is read about yesterday.

It surprisingly did well until then. I say this because often the 18:42 Epsom to Guildford service can be 10 minutes late into London Road (Guildford) and that can't surely be down to the train being full. It certainly isn't full at Epsom.

In regards to just the depot drivers being on strike, I would imagine Salisbury, Farnham and both Wimbledon and Clapham will be particularly affected, Bournemouth I’m not sure on how far drivers sign within the depot (Fratton and Northam should be okay). I would imagine as well as many trains as possible will be out berthed as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2022 ==


Great explanation. Certainly better than I could have managed.

When the strikes are affecting Guildford, trains are out berthed on platforms 1, 2, 4, 5, 6. Now the strike has ended and staff don't wish to work overtime, there is currently 1 down train to Portsmouth and 1 up train to Woking as well as 2 on the branch line via Epsom.

So it would need a lot more out berths elsewhere to run more services if some major depots can't get trains out.

The Monday morning 0800 (first train) from Motspur Park had left behind passengers, as I overheard one of them on the phone as he was walking away from the station. My wife couldn't get on the 0830, and I estimate there were about 25 other people who didn't manage it and were left behind (the photo shows part of the platform just after the doors closed). The 0900 was cancelled, so the left-behind passengers were having to figure out whether to wait for an hour(!) for the next train, walk+bus to Morden for the Tube, or walk+bus to Raynes Park with the risk of being left-behind there too.

In 2019 Motspur Park had 6tph, more recently 4tph, now only 2tph. And the capacity cuts are even greater than that, since the 6tph was 6x10 car and now it's 2x8 car so 60 carriages per hour down to only 16 carriages per hour.

View attachment 125518

According to the live departure board on National Rail Enquiries, the 9 am was not canceled. The train departed Guildford 5 minutes late due to it being late from the depot.

 

[Lifelong]

Very interesting. Thanks.


Is this why it got heavily delayed at Claphsm Junction with no reason given on the online departure board? I had a look given what is read about yesterday.

It surprisingly did well until then. I say this because often the 18:42 Epsom to Guildford service can be 10 minutes late into London Road (Guildford) and that can't surely be down to the train being full. It certainly isn't full at Epsom.

When the strikes are affecting Guildford, trains are out berthed on platforms 1, 2, 4, 5, 6. Now the strike has ended and staff don't wish to work overtime, there is currently 1 down train to Portsmouth and 1 up train to Woking as well as 2 on the branch line via Epsom.

So it would need a lot more out berths elsewhere to run more services if some major depots can't get trains out.

According to the live departure board on National Rail Enquiries, the 9 am was not canceled. The train departed Guildford 5 minutes late due to it being late from the depot.

The train delay at CJ today was because of a person taken ill on the train

 

[gravitystorm]

According to the live departure board on National Rail Enquiries, the 9 am was not canceled. The train departed Guildford 5 minutes late due to it being late from the depot.

My post was describing Monday morning (19th) - your screenshot is from today's service (20th).

 

[pompeyfan]

Places such as Portsmouth Harbour, Weymouth and Weymouth Jersey sidings, also Southampton, Eastleigh, Poole, Haslemere can all be used to store trains without the assistance with depot drivers. The problem is the majority of these already seen trains berthing there regularly