SWT prosecuting for £2000+ - any recommendation on solicitors?

[crusader1234]

Hello and thank you in advance for any help and advice.

does anyone know a solicitor that is willing to represent my case and assist me in a case I have ongoing with SWT?

I am being asked to appear in court and to pay compensation for £2000 in costs to bring my case to court , CCTV prints, interview letters, case officer, correspondence - office interviews and inspectors times for avoiding to have the correct fare and intentionally not paying the correct ticket

the fare avoided on the 12 of may in zone 4 of London while using the overground trains into london is of £2

but SWT have build a case and accumulated costs over the past 4 months to a total of £2000 approx plus court cases

1) does anyone know a local solicitor that can assist? west london - criminal matter it seems?
2) can I try and settle on the date of summons - and if so what - who should I approach? what letter to write as the summon date is only 10 days away now?

story:

have a travel card ticket - so called monthly season ticket for zone 1 - zone 2 and was followed from zone 4 into zone one without the right ticket.

as I had the monthly travel card for approx 2 months and 2 weeks south west assume I have been travelling on this fare avoidance journey ( £2 difference ) for the time - but only found guilty on 1 occasion.

i have some tickets i did purchase on other dates of travel and have kept them for records over the past 4 years showing them some of the dates of purchasing of full fares but they weren't interested.

thank you again for your help and advice.

Regards

 

[Gathursty]

Please state the stations you were travelling between, EXACT tickets you had for your journeys and include prices too if you're unsure of what was written on the ticket. Also, be precise in the offence you have been accused of and dialogue you had with the inspector (also whereabouts on your journey this took place). Advice will come very quickly if you reply with all of the above in one go, so please avoid drip-feeding the thread if you want a speedy and complete response.

 

[crusader1234]

Hello - as requested additional info to assist in my case

I was travelling from Brentford - zone 4 to waterloo zone 1
I had a monthly travel card covering zone 1 to zone 2 only
the difference between the zones in prices is approx £2 for the total of journey.
i immediately admitted to the inspector I did not had the full fare
I admitted to the fare offence for that day and explained I forgot to buy the extension of fare when the journey started.
I admitted that the travel card for zone 1 and zone 2 only was used mainly for work and that when travelling to and back from home on my train journey I tend to : buy an extension ( have some valid ticket receipts ) - get a lift from zone 2 through work - family - or drive into london , park at work and use the zone 1 and zone 2 within central london
I was invited to the second interview in richmond 1 month after
the same questions were asked and I produced a bundle of approx 200 + tickets covering 2011 - 2014 but they were interested to look at them
when I produced alternative oyster cards these were quickly taken off me - without my consent - i then became quiet "loud" in asking for an explanation why these cards were taken from me in a deceptive way
and left the interview room quickly there after ( they say i was escorted out ) but to be honest i left on my own -
i did not sign any paperwork - saying I couldn't read what was actually written on a small pad neither at the interview office neither at the station.
the suspicion for SWT is that for a period of 2 months plus I avoided the zone 4 zone 2 fare , daily. ---
total cost claiming £1980.
Regulation of Railways Act 1889 - containing some updates on the law in terms of commas.

thank you!
regards

 

[reb0118]

[T]he difference between the zones in prices is approx. £2 for the total of journey.

The actual value of the fare avoided makes no difference in law to your guilt or innocence but it will make a difference to the level of compensation to the TOC concerned as they are normally awarded this lost fare, amongst other costs, when you are convicted.

immediately admitted to the inspector I did not had the full fare.

You have admitted the fact that you did not have the full fare but were you given the option to pay a penalty fare to rectify your mistake at the time?

NB you do not have to be given the option to pay a penalty fare esp. if the inspector suspects fraud, which I believe was his suspicion here. The railway, in general, takes short faring very seriously. They can, and do, take strong measures to detect and investigate such matters.

Only you will know the truth of the matter for all occasions that you have travelled but crucially you have admitted avoiding your fare in this way once and now the railway is assuming (you hope? - It may be the case that your journeys have been flagged up in the system and you have been the focus of a sting?) that you have been doing this on a regular basis. Unfortunately the onus is now on you to prove them wrong. Can you do this for every day that you held your travelcard? If not, then it may be best to settle.

I am not an expert on travel in London but others may be along shortly to offer full advice, unfortunately sometimes not what you want to read however, that said I am not sure that the forum can offer advice on solicitors?

 

[cuccir]

Unfortunately the onus is now on you to prove them wrong. Can you do this for every day that you held your travelcard? If not, then it may be best to settle.

This is a prosecution under the Regulations of the Railways Act. Therefore it is up to the prosecutor to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Crusader1234 intended to avoid the fare owed, rather than Crusader1234 having to prove his innocence!

I think that, given the size of costs being applied for, this might fall beyond the scope of advice that can be offered on an internet forum (which, to be fair, Crusader1234 was not directly asking for).

Clearly, SWT feel that they have sufficient evidence to prove this. We don't know what this is but we can presume/guess that it may include testimony and CCTV footage that you traveled daily from Zone 4 during the period that you held a Zone 1-2 ticket. As reb0118 notes, you will have a sense of the strength of this evidence from your own knowledge of whether or not you were actually doing this!

A good criminal lawyer will be able to help you - your local Citizens Advice Bereau might be able to recommend someone. They will particularly be able to help if your primary aim is to mitigate a fine. If you want to fight this charge and avoid being found guilty, for whatever reason, then you may have more luck with a specialist lawyer and they are out there (eg Penman Sedgwick) but they will cost you a lot more.

This thread contains some good advice for settling near the day of the trial but as this a particularly serious case I'd have thought that SWT would need a lot of persuading!

 

[455driver]

So you live in Zone 4 and work in Zone 1 and only have a Zone 1-2 travelcard yes?
The station you use in Zone 4 does not have ticket barriers?
It sounds like they have probably been watching you for some time and noticed that you 'forgot' to buy your extensions on many occasions so a PF would not have been appropriate.

You need to look at the bigger picture here and if you regularly 'forget' the extension then that will be classed as fraud, pure and simple.

How many days a week do you work, how often do you get lifts (one way or another), how often do you buy the extensions?

Just because you have over 200 tickets (why do you keep them?) doesnt prove anything and might even be construed that the only reason you keep them is just in case you are stopped and can then use them as a defence.

Why do (did) you have other Oyster cards, most people only have one?

What are you actually going to use as a defence?
I 'forgot' and 'they are picking on me' wont work.

 

[crusader1234]

Hello -

I have kept the tickets - and weekly travel cards - paying full fare over the past 3 years and more because of self - employed HMRC these records are required if asked to supply my travel expenses

to be honest I think i have more than 200 tickets with full journeys but haven't counted them

I have different travel oystser cards as these are attached to different LTD consultancy companies - again for HMRC if i travel to Farringdon for a consultancy job with company A and then I am asked to support company B then I think i have some usage of a different oyster expense covered in my support contract - also because I top up some cards and handed them out to contractors when we had a bigger job doing - 3-4 man over a long week-end then at the end there were some £30 left on each card and I had to use them up really.

I have started the discussion to be represented by a solicitor as I want to see this through professionally - I was only found guilty on 1 day not on a longer period so for a £2 evasion of fare to be asked £2000 compensation plus court fees without actually having reviewed my tickets at the interview days or even given me the chance to show them oyster receipts and carious ticket receipts is quiet unfair I think. I had them all catalogued by date at the time but wasn't given the chance.

On some weeks I worked from home entirely as I was on paternity leave and only escalation support - etc.

I know where SWT is coming from but I also know that from 2011 to 2014 I have in excess of £12,000 worth of travel receipt for full fares and travel cards.

I will keep everyone posted on my results and what has happend and what degree the settlement was accept ( if ) by SWT so it can be shared and learned.

if anyone has a tip it would be handy to help..

Exa: I don't have the oyster cards records as when I call TFL they can only supply me with the last 7 days of travel records ( while SWT got the entire year as records )

I may not have kept all purchase receipt and single travel tickets as sometimes - the receipt is not available to be printed even if expressly selected at the machine due to lack of available paper ( at least on 20 occasions at the farringdon tube station I topped up but had no receipt was given despite asking ) when querried the onsite staff I was told no paper in the machine.

exa:

on many occasions I actually went out in zone 2 fare and drove home - without needing to actually swipe out as you can just show the weekly card to the guard - like at shepherds bush

cheers and Regards

 

[455driver]

Thank you for the answers, they do clear up quite a few points.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree with cuccir that a local law firm which specialises in Criminal Defence work will be able to provide an adequately experienced solicitor to represent you.
There are some who claim specialisation in Railway Law, but in view of the circumstances you have outlined, none of that specialisation is of significance.

There are many law firms in west London specialising in Criminal Defence and you will have no difficulty in finding one nearby. Please do this immediately, as they will need time to request copies of the Evidence, to analyse the facts, offer you advice, take your instructions and prepare for Court. You have not really given them enough time to do this thoroughly, but perhaps they will be able to obtain an adjournment.

 

[Panda]

Does the £12000 worth of travel receipts relate to your London travel only or are you including any travel in that? It seems massively excessive for general London travel for 3 years (it's an average of £8.20 a day if you travelled every day for 4 years weekdays and weekends included!!).

Do you have proof of payment for the parking on the days that you drive part-way and then took the train? That could also be massively helpful.

 

[crusader1234]

a few pointers here -

someone mentioned about time: I have been posted a bunch of photocopies through my letter box on Monday morning the 1st of September this alone is quiet injust , how am I supposed to find professional help when the hearing is on the 11th ? bear in mind I am not sitting at home all day but actually working too?

there should be

1) delivered recorded, signed for documents as these could easily miss-placed - Imagine if I was abroad as a contractor and had no records of the summon date.

2) a daily travel card is £11.20 today from zone 4 to zone 1 - not sure where the £8 comes from , don't even remember that in 2012 if I am correct.

3) the 12K is for journey made on SWT not only into London but some days out to Bracknell - or even further - where a return alone is £26 - example in 2013 I traveled for 15 days to Southampton on a day per day basis with returns costing in excess of £55 each plus the travel card to zone 1 a day - the 12K where just a rough figure as not all receipt were available with the machines.

3) I get free parking at work and have today requested london congestion charge to send me a list of days I entered the congestion but was advised that only the last 3 months are available on records and there is a charge for printed invoices to be send out.

again here SWT have an advantage as the time is not with me ( off to abu dhabi in 3 weeks time for a 4 weeks work project ) so again not been able to contact, print, produce - engage quickly enough with my case ---

I had most of the tickets with me at the hearing, they just needed to listen and give me a chance to explain that on that morning I was rushed into work at 7am instead of a normal start and didn't plan my journey adequatly.

i am at fault but can't be labeled a criminal for a £2 fare discrepancy I think but this is my way and I understand that £0.1p - £2 - £200 makes no difference in the eye of law. My solicitor is now charging my £900 for initial fees and paperwork and summon attendance - I will go all the way - even if it triples my case cost mainly to clear a name and record.

so from £2 we are not at £2900 plus further admin court case costs.

 

[bb21]

I am getting the feeling, rightly or wrongly, that your sense of injustice is clouding your judgement, understandably. I am also unsure whether you actually understand all the facts of your case, because your posts are very difficult to understand, possibly explaining why people are holding back from saying much because of the confusion contained within.

I will just make the following points.

Firstly I am not confident that you understand what the £2000 is for. I think, if I understand you correctly, the £2000 is just for costs that SWT have incurred investigating your case. This has nothing to do with how much fare they think you may have evaded. Compensation and costs are two completely separate legal concepts and if you end up getting convicted, costs will be awarded separate to compensation, which is the amount of fare evaded. I struggle to see how compensation can reach £2000 if you are only caught on this one occasion, unless they can prove that you did this on more than one occasion, but even if that happened everyday for the duration of your season ticket (2 months and 2 weeks), it would still not add up to that much. Without knowing what evidence they have and what other actions took place in the last few months, I am unable to say whether £2000 in costs is reasonable as these can very quickly add up.

Secondly it does look highly suspect that you have a Zones 1-2 Travelcard but actually live in Zone 4, especially if there is a history of incomplete journeys in your record and where you live the station is ungated (which Brentford is AFAIK). Is there any particular explanation you can give? Can you provide any supporting evidence to back up your reasons? For example, if your Travelcard is funded by your employer, can you provide a letter from your employer stating that they would only pay for a Zones 1-2 version?

I am not surprised they took no interest in the stack of tickets you brought to the interview. In the consideration of this case, it means nothing. All these tickets show is that you bought tickets for those days concerned, and say nothing about those days for which you can show no ticket. For all they know, you may have avoided paying the correct fare on all those days you have no ticket for, and there are people out there who do that - pay the correct fare on some days and not others. I am also puzzled as to what the Bracknell tickets you bought have anything to do with this case.

Being "loud" as you call it will not help your case. Being loud to you can mean being aggressive and intimidating to the staff there.

The time of the hearing is set by the court. It is of no concern to the court or the train company that you may not be ready or available on those days. This should be of paramount importance to you and be top of your priority list for the next ten days.

I am also unclear what you expect to get out of this whole episode. Do you want to reach a settlement with SWT where possible? Do you want to fight the case in court?

In view of all the confusion and the amount of money involved, I think you have made the correct decision to contact a solicitor, who would be able to work through all these things with a clear head as an outsider.

 

[londonboi]

I would take the advice giving here and what you are doing so far seems the correct course of action. The people on here are really helpful and its amazing how so much support and advice they give out on here for free is useful to so many people.

What i read at the start was this: and was followed from zone 4 into zone one without the right ticket.

as someone has not flagged this up yet this might be helpful for the knowledgeable people to answer

How do you know you were followed also from reading on here for a long time if the inspectors followed you then something has flagged up and you could have been watched for a period of time as they build up evidence against you then when they had enough they stopped you on the day in question

i might be wrong but i cant see them following you for just that one day knowing you didn't have the correct ticket??

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I have been posted a bunch of photocopies through my letter box on Monday morning the 1st of September this alone is quiet injust , how am I supposed to find professional help when the hearing is on the 11th ? bear in mind I am not sitting at home all day but actually working too?

Please do not try to make sense of this at this stage - the time to instruct a solicitor would have been several months ago, and they would have requested copies of the Prosecution Evidence long ago.

What I find astonishing is that SWT have spent £2000 over four months preparing their evidence, and in all this time you have done apparently nothing, but now you complain that you don't have enough time!

As you have not told the Court who your solicitor is, they have quite rightly provided you with copies more than a week before the hearing. That is adequate. Presumably you hadn't even requested it.

You do not have the knowledge nor expertise to analyse that evidence, so you will give it all to the local solicitor I advised you to find and then you can carry on with your own work.

Don't waste time on irrelevant matters, you can't afford to waste time. And don't try to find fault with SWT. They will know exactly how to conduct a Prosecution correctly. It is your travelling that is the subject of their prosecution and your non-payment of some fares, not their handing of the investigation - you should focus on that subject and only that. Otherwise that £900 legal cost is likely to increase, and so might the Prosecution's costs!