Tavistock to Bere Alston possible reopening: what infrastructure could be required and what service provision might operate?

[swt_passenger]

Besides, why would FGW want to downgrade the standard of accomodation on the Cardiff to Portsmouth services with suburban DMU's instead of the regional express DMU's currently used?

It was proposed in the relevant Route Plan only a few years ago - if DfT required it to happen do you think the TOC would argue?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Their information did contain dates for the Public Inquiry as not being likely to be held until 2014 or 2015

I must confess that this confirms what I have heard recently.

 

[Goatboy]

It was proposed in the relevant Route Plan only a few years ago - if DfT required it to happen do you think the TOC would argue?

Was it? Madness

Why don't we just go the whole hog and make poor old FGW use Pacers for everything, the rate it seems the DFT want to strip them of any of the decent DMU's they have...

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I believe some of the stopping patterns were altered to mean that the Tavistock service only stopped at Bere Alston and Bere Ferrers. Certainly a second timetable was proposed in 2010 in Killbrides position statement that shows this, here in appendix 3:-

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/TVA-CJH-GEN-Position Statement-October 2010.pdf

Imo the reopening to Tavistock IS a big step forward, mainly fueled by improving the poor commuter access to Plymouth.
But, the sample timetable in Trainbuff's post seems to have been devised to make the reopening as cheap as possible. (Not a timetable I would like to see operating)
- There would be only one train on the branch/s at one time.
I.e. In that case no signalling upgrade would be necessary.
They could do as little as remove stop blocks at Bere Alston, extend the track to Tavistock, build a platform/ shelter and place the stop blocks there?
With the extra trains serving Bere Alston I would expect an increase in passenger numbers using Bere Alston.
Passengers using Tavistock could be limited by the location of the station, which will be is also high above and away from the Town Centre. (Bit like Liskeard having their station at Coombe Junction!)
A large free/ cheap station car parking area would help significantly!

 

[charlee]

Building out the up platform is rather a stupid idea for me, don't like it it's complicated and stupid in my view especially for passengers. The picturesque image of Bere Alston would be ruined if they did bring such an awful idea to fruition. So hope they don't do that.

Also PPM I'm not a fan of the idea, and passengers would hate that trust me. Would be an unpleasant journey!

I don't see any need to have Bere Alston as an exchange for gunnislake. I think as the next franchise states the gunnislake service should remain at the current service levels and the tavistock services should not have any impact on this. I am a firm believer in keeping them both as single branches and no getting on different trains etc. the people on the gunnislake would shoot down any attempt and making them change as they can and would want direct services to plymouth no changing.

It's fair to say the changes that have been explained I disagree with dont like them at all. And hope network rail think again about such plans.

 

[charlee]

Seems like things are moving along yet again, another exhibition for the 22md of this month.

Plan to revive old Devon railway line for 750-home community unveiled

Plans for hundreds of new homes linked to the reopening of a Devon railway line are to be the subject of a public exhibition next week.
The line from Bere Alston to Tavistock in West Devon was among those axed by Dr Beeching 50 years ago, although there remains a regular service from Bere Alston to Plymouth.
​
Devon County Council wants to reinstate the route to help minimise the impact of traffic from planned development to the south and southwest of Tavistock.
A total of 750 new houses are being proposed by Bovis Homes, which is seeking public views on the scheme.

The housebuilder's South West strategic land director, Nevin Holden, said: "This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to provide much-needed housing alongside the proposal to restore the rail connection for Tavistock.
"We are entering detailed discussions with West Devon Borough Council and look forward to working in partnership with the council and wider community in Tavistock.

"It's vital for all of us that we deliver a high-quality, well-designed new community to complement the existing town and the new station. All open land around Tavistock is sensitive and we want to protect the most sensitive areas in and adjacent to the site."
The proposals include building 9km of new single-track railway to link Tavistock to Bere Alston and a new cycleway and footpath from Tavistock to the Bere peninsula.

The new railway line would use the structures, cuttings and embankments left intact when the original line was decommissioned, although some strengthening work would need to be done to bring them in line with modern load standards and ensure they are suitable for the life of the railway.

A new station in the Callington Road area of Tavistock would include facilities for passengers as well as parking, cycle storage and links to local bus services. The existing station at Bere Alston would be upgraded.

It is hoped that an hourly service would eventually run between Tavistock and Plymouth. However, the railway can only be developed with the appropriate powers from government, which require a public inquiry.

Mr Holden added: "We are looking at how best to create a strong sense of community so that the new housing is not a satellite part of the town, at how to protect and reinforce the landscape setting of the town and its heritage, and overall, how to provide a sustainable development in a high-quality urban environment."
The public exhibition is being held at the Bedford Hotel, Tavistock, from 1pm to 8pm, on Friday, February 22.

Source http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/Plan-r...tory-18155044-detail/story.html#axzz2KxkFOAJ6

 

[Kali]

Technically wasn't Beeching I think? the succeeding Labour govt did most of the damage in Devon, but who cares. All this noise is somewhat encouraging still. After the noise comes the civil service, which means something might happen by 2020...

 

[341o2]

Okehampton - Bere Alston survived Beeching, but closure came in 1968, two years after the Beeching cuts in 1964 - 6 (Ilfracombe was to follow in 1970). I have commented on other threads regarding Beeching, he was a Tory, but by the time the cuts were implemented, Labour was in power and did nothing to reverse the decision.

The damage to the West Country railways was done principally by the withdrawal of the Atlantic coast Express, the Southern network was designed to capture the tourist trade, when this was removed lines were closed on the basis of being under used, the public turned to the motor car instead

 

[Bedpan]

If my memory serves me right everything west of Exeter was transferred to the Western Region in 1964, and that was when the through routes to Waterloo were withdrawn, which was the death knell for all of the ex SR routes except for Exeter to Barnstaple Junction and Plymouth to Bere Alston/Gunnislake.
It would be great if the reopening plans for Tavistock came to fruition, and there would only be a gap of 15 miles or so between there and Meldon,so we can dream of reopening the entire route from Plymouth to Exeter which would be a useful diversionary route when the sea wall is breached.

 

[Kali]

It'd probably cost more than a brand new diversion around Dawlish though... and what we really need is a diversion around Cowley Bridge!

Okehampton and Ilfracombe services lasted until 1970-1. I'm reasonably sure there were some through services to Ilfracombe from London at times - there was definitely a Paddington-Barnstaple service in the 70s. Okehampton has not managed to sustain a regular service in the last umpteen times since then they've tried to restart one... Ilfracombe has suffered badly though. I've read anecdotes that staff weren't permitted to try and even get 5% more goods traffic in the area in the mid 60s because they didn't have spare stock ( or would have enough staff ) - lack of sense is not a recent phenomenon.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Noting that Bovis Homes are to be the stated housebuilder, whatever happened to the Kilbride Group involvement ?

 

[fgwrich]

Noting that Bovis Homes are to be the stated housebuilder, whatever happened to the Kilbride Group involvement ?

Still seem to be there, just in the background. Kilbride is i believe the lead promoter for the Tavy line extention.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Still seem to be there, just in the background. Kilbride is i believe the lead promoter for the Tavy line extention.

Kilbride Group published regular project updates up to the end of 2011, but I could not trace any new documentation from them after that date.

 

[The Ham]

It is not uncommon for companies to speculate on land for development get planning permission with various conditions and then sell the land to house builders to actually build the development. It sometimes even happens that one house builder will get the permission and then sell to another.

 

[cle]

It is not uncommon for companies to speculate on land for development get planning permission with various conditions and then sell the land to house builders to actually build the development. It sometimes even happens that one house builder will get the permission and then sell to another.

I take it they inherit/acquire any S106 obligations?

 

[charlee]

Public exhibition is today

 

[HowardGWR]

I take it they inherit/acquire any S106 obligations?

Of course.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

It is not uncommon for companies to speculate on land for development get planning permission with various conditions and then sell the land to house builders to actually build the development. It sometimes even happens that one house builder will get the permission and then sell to another.

It has been known for developers to re-apply for pp seeking alterations to conditions. eg contributing to adapting other roads to take the extra traffic.
But imo it is a win win scheme. Tavistock gets a station, and the houses should be popular with commuters (could add say 10% more value) wishing to live in a pleasant location, with easy access to Plymouth.

It would be in FGW's interest to persuade NR and the Council to improve the projected infrastructure on the branch/s, to enable them to run a more intensive service in the morning & teatime, and thereby make more efficient use of the rolling stock & drivers.

 

[ACE1888]

It has been known for developers to re-apply for pp seeking alterations to conditions. eg contributing to adapting other roads to take the extra traffic.
But imo it is a win win scheme. Tavistock gets a station, and the houses should be popular with commuters (could add say 10% more value) wishing to live in a pleasant location, with easy access to Plymouth.

It would be in FGW's interest to persuade NR and the Council to improve the projected infrastructure on the branch/s, to enable them to run a more intensive service in the morning & teatime, and thereby make more efficient use of the rolling stock & drivers.

FGW's interest indeed, as my favourite station is Bere Alston, with the ongoing reinstatement, I am more than interested to see how the revised layout and the station will look, returning to a proper junction rather than just a reversal for Gunnislake.

 

[charlee]

FGW's interest indeed, as my favourite station is Bere Alston, with the ongoing reinstatement, I am more than interested to see how the revised layout and the station will look, returning to a proper junction rather than just a reversal for Gunnislake.

Yes I like Bere Alston it still carries that old school charm and charcter compared to the other lifeless and dull stations on the line.

 

[Bedpan]

Don't think you could call Bere Ferrers lifeless and dull, the station buildings (privately owned) are well kept and the what with the mini museum there which has a few sidings behind the platform. The colour scheme is Southern green and there's even a sign saying something like "This platform for Devonport and Plymouth, over footbridge for Tavistock, Okehampton, Exeter and London". The omnly problem is actually finding the footbridge, its a bit like trying to get onto Platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross.

 

[charlee]

Don't think you could call Bere Ferrers lifeless and dull, the station buildings (privately owned) are well kept and the what with the mini museum there which has a few sidings behind the platform. The colour scheme is Southern green and there's even a sign saying something like "This platform for Devonport and Plymouth, over footbridge for Tavistock, Okehampton, Exeter and London". The omnly problem is actually finding the footbridge, its a bit like trying to get onto Platform 9 3/4 at Kings Cross.

A yes forgot about Bere ferres, very charming as well, love the quirky things like the still intact siding. It's obviously been kept well by people who care about the station.

 

[Bedpan]

Actually I have just been having a look at Google Street View and didn't realise that the village was so nice what with the quay and the views across the river etc, I'll definitely have to stop off there for a mooch around when I'm next in the area.

 

[ACE1888]

Actually I have just been having a look at Google Street View and didn't realise that the village was so nice what with the quay and the views across the river etc, I'll definitely have to stop off there for a mooch around when I'm next in the area.

In 2011,I was on a '153' to Gunnislake which 'conked out' at Bere Ferrers, so while waiting for the rescue unit, I looked around the museum at BF, really good couple of hours there, with very friendly people, luckily I had my camera with me. Never did get any compensation from FGW for the inconvenience' though (even though they took all the passengers details)...:roll:
The former Tavistock North station buildings are up for sale at £1,250,000 by the way (as seen in the Sunday Express adverts today)

 

[Cliveblackpool]

In 2011,I was on a '153' to Gunnislake which 'conked out' at Bere Ferrers, so while waiting for the rescue unit, I looked around the museum at BF, really good couple of hours there, with very friendly people, luckily I had my camera with me. Never did get any compensation from FGW for the inconvenience' though (even though they took all the passengers details)...:roll:
The former Tavistock North station buildings are up for sale at £1,250,000 by the way (as seen in the Sunday Express adverts today)

The former North station was being used as a guesthouse.
If the station was to be reopened, there would be pro's & cons for the owners, but imo it would be a positive boost for the business!

Originally Posted by Bedpan
Actually I have just been having a look at Google Street View and didn't realise that the village was so nice what with the quay and the views across the river etc, I'll definitely have to stop off there for a mooch around when I'm next in the area.

Another place to visit is the ancient Denham Bridge - The main reason (poor access for the Bere peninsular) for the survival of the present Gunnislake branch!!
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=De...=hz2kjS4j5Rr-nxo7RgHFTw&cbp=12,123.68,,0,9.01

 

[charlee]

Source: Tavistock People

WHAT DO YOU think about trains coming to Tavistock? As plans to revive the old line from Tavistock to Plymouth become more defined, we open up the debate on Tavistock People with three questions for residents to consider…


Could trains return to Tavistock? What do you think about it? Tell us here on Tavistock People!


For years there has been discussion about re-opening the railway line between Tavistock and Bere Alston. Axed by Dr Beeching on 5 May 1968, a recent engineering assessment has revealed that the 5.5 mile route – including bridges and tunnels – remains in sound condition.

It's been proposed that a new single-track railway would be built to link Tavistock to Bere Alston, plus a new cycleway and footpath from Tavistock to the Bere peninsula.

Some strengthening work of the original cuttings and embankments may be required to update them for modern rail use. In addition a new station in the town's Callington Road area would be built and the existing station at Bere Alston would be upgraded.

If the railway was reinstated, it would give a direct service between Tavistock and Plymouth.

Reopening the line could greatly improve travelling options for residents, commuters and businesses as well as linking Tavistock and West Devon with the national rail network. It could also reduce traffic on the busy A386 Tavistock to Plymouth road.

But the line could come at a cost, depending on your viewpoint. The project would largely be funded by national house builder Bovis Homes, which plans to develop a mixture of 750 new homes, employment units, open space and other community facilities to the south and south west of Tavistock. The reopened rail link is seen as playing a key role in supporting new development in the town.

Consultation – between Devon County Council, Kilbride Community Rail, West Devon Borough Council, Network Rail and Bovis Homes – is ongoing. DCC recently helped to keep things on track for the public by holding four information meetings at the end of January along with a recent exhibition at Tavistock's Bedford Hotel.

Before the railway can be developed, DCC says it needs to apply to the Government for a public enquiry. If that goes ahead, it could be in 2014. If the necessary powers are obtained, construction could begin in 2016.

But does Tavistock want the railway to return? Tavistock People put three questions to some local residents of different ages. Here's what they said to the first of our questions...

What do you think about trains coming to Tavistock?

Brian Bradley, Tavistock resident: "I think the possibility is very remote. The way it's been suggested it might happen is if the rail link and station are funded by a house builder as part of a large development on the outskirts of the town. Most of the residents would be opposed to this size of development. It would turn Tavistock into a suburb of Plymouth."

Malcolm Christie, Chairman, Tavistock branch of the Royal British Legion: "I think it's dependent on West Devon Council ensuring that Bovis – the house builders who want to put 750 houses near the proposed new station – stick to their word and do finance the building of the line from Bere Alston. I may sound cynical, but I can see Bovis building the houses – or some of them – and then finding some legal reason to back out of an agreement. The easy way out of that situation is to ensure that either the line is re-established first or in tandem with the house building."

Shaun Smith, Tavistock musician: "I'm in agreement with the proposal. I know the trains can be a bit noisy as my friend lived at the station master's house and you used to feel them rumble throughout the house, but it was never a noise that woke you up at night."

Other comments coming in on Tavistock's Facebook page:

Lynton J North: "Can't wait. This will be so good for people in Tavi and Bere Peninsula. Moreover, we need to drastically cut the use of cars in the area. This will help to reduce social isolation, boost local economies, and a positively green move."

Kevin Reynolds: "How to ruin a beautiful town in one hit. Leave well alone."

Rebecca Joynes: "If it comes soon enough for me to use, great, but I doubt I will see it, lol! Being able to catch a train to Plymouth would be great! And to B'ham from here via Plymouth as well... much better than buses."

Nikki Miles: "Not at the price of 750 new homes on greenbelt, no. We don't have the infrastructure to cope with that many more people in this town. Schools, doctors, jobs, parking, traffic, etc will be badly affected and I don't believe that many people would use the train either."

Keith Hall: "Will it happen in my lifetime?"

Next week: Would reinstating the rail link be a good or a bad thing for Tavistock?

What do you think about trains coming to Tavistock? Tell us here on Tavistock People.

Some interesting view points especially about the developer u turning soon as they have built the homes.

 

[Bedpan]

I "like" (or rather I don't like!) the way that they say that they asked people three questions, but they have only actually told us what one of the questions is! I suppose that the answers to the next question will be published in the next issue, so make sure you post bit on here Charlee, otherwise we'll all be dying of suspense!!

 

[The Ham]

Malcolm Christie, Chairman, Tavistock branch of the Royal British Legion: "I think it's dependent on West Devon Council ensuring that Bovis – the house builders who want to put 750 houses near the proposed new station – stick to their word and do finance the building of the line from Bere Alston. I may sound cynical, but I can see Bovis building the houses – or some of them – and then finding some legal reason to back out of an agreement. The easy way out of that situation is to ensure that either the line is re-established first or in tandem with the house building."

There have been cases of house builders do this, however depending on how it is worded (which most councils should have now got wise to) they will not be able to.

The old way of writing it was basicly "you can build 150 houses then you have to do x". Now it says something like "you can build 150 houses or from 24 months after the first house is built then you have to do x".

As with the old example there where house builders who would build 149/150 houses and then stop building and not have to make the improvements that they promised, while that is no longer possible with the time limit in place as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With Bovis Homes now being cited as the prime movers in that press release (?), this brings me back to the query that I recently raised about the Kilbride Group. Therefore, once again I ask for clarification of the current connection to the railway side of the project by the Kilbride Group.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Found this



http://www.devon.gov.uk/exhibition_material

It's material for the consultation. Details plans etc, interesting read

Not sure if this is a new page or they changed the url.
http://www.devon.gov.uk/exhibition-material.pdf

The story so far
Devon County Council has been carrying out
a significant amount of work to determine the
feasibility of the project and the key issues and
challenges which will need to be overcome. This
work particularly relates to the rail part of the project.....

Another project by Kilbride?
We have sponsored the Lewes-Uckfield rail line reinstatement project, providing funding for feasibility stages and the promotion of the scheme in the area.
http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdo...4-7027D10B010E/0/lewes_uckfield_info_pack.pdf