Tavistock to Bere Alston possible reopening: what infrastructure could be required and what service provision might operate?

[Turbostar]

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/

The Bere Alston to Tavistock Community Rail Line project is being undertaken by Kilbride Community Rail who are a specialist infrastructure developer. The project involves an allocated site south of Tavistock and the re-instatement of the Bere Alston to Tavistock rail line. Kilbride Community Rail will fund the entire project from the proceeds of residential development adjacent to the site. The planning and legal process will take approximately two to three years and up to a further year to build the line. Kilbride Community Rail will consult throughout the process; the first stage of this consultation involved representations being made to West Devon Borough Council Local Development Framework in March 2008, looking at the area of search identified in the Core Strategy further consultation report. A “Deliverability Report” will be published on this website in the next week, providing details of the rail line and proposed service.

 

[OxtedL]

Woah! Hang on, back up a bit, what have I missed?!

 

[richw]

Woah! Hang on, back up a bit, what have I missed?!

I was thinking that, i heard rumours, but have not seen anything formal until now!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Only £18.5 mil for the stations, the clearances, formations, track, signalling, comms and all neccessary bridges, drainage, rights of way all other civils and first two years' operating subsidy?

I understand that S.106 contributions are to be spent at the Authority's discretion and NOT as the developer propsed. I appreciate that this appears to be some sort of partnership with WDBC (the Local Authority), but it will be surprising if they sustain a committment to spend £18.5mil on a rail project through a few more elections and as costs rise (refer Edinburgh Trams!).

The proposal is actually reasonably realistic in terms of building a station in Tavistock. The detail beyond there is unnervingly sketchy - and of course there's no proposal to 'close the loop' across the north of Dartmoor through to Okehampton.
As for rail services:

Discussions have been held with First Great Western (FGW) on their willingness to support the proposed
service. FGW has confi rmed publicly that they do support the project, and have been invaluable in putting
together the costs and forecasts for the proposed service. There is agreement that the new service will utilise
existing rolling stock and other resources currently being used on the Tamar Valley line.

 

[yorksrob]

I think it's about time - and for a reasonable price. I hope they lay it out with a future extension to Okehampton in mind.

 

[DavidBrown]

The formal plans have been around for some time now. Not sure exactly at what stage the plans are at at the moment though.

The plans certaintly seem to show that continuing the line along the old trackbed through Tavistock to Okehampton will still be possible, though of course that depends on what other development has taken place in Tavistock (particularly around the old station, I think).

 

[NightatLaira]

How did that one slip under the radar great news!

 

[oattam09]

There is a pretty rubbish road link to compete with this, so this would be an excellent addition to the local infrastructure. How they work this with the Gunnislake service will be interesting, as there are no passing loops anywhere until Plymouth!

 

[ACE1888]

There is a pretty rubbish road link to compete with this, so this would be an excellent addition to the local infrastructure. How they work this with the Gunnislake service will be interesting, as there are no passing loops anywhere until Plymouth!

Read somewhere that a 153 would be 'dropped' off at Bere Alston to work the Gunnislake service each morning on the first train of the day to Tavy. Hindsight is such a wonderful thing, but when closing the line between Meldon and Bere Alston in May 1968, the line should have been 'singled' for 'diversionary' purposes when the sea wall route is closed with bad weather etc OR the line should have been retained from Tavistock for access to Plymouth, which obviously is what is being reinstated now.
If there's one 'rail' re instatement (thats actually likely) going to happen, I hope it's this one. Just a shame it can't make it to the original station, visited the site around 1980/1 before it was mostly sold off for redevelopment, only the tracks were missing then.:roll:

 

[anthony263]

There is a campaign to get the link between Tavistock and Okehampton re-opened and with passing loops and double track sections the idea is for an hourly services between Exeter & Plymouth via Okehampton & Tavistock in addition to other services.

Maybe devon & cornwall railways might look at such an option to perhaps pay for the missing link to be re-instated

 

[142094]

I understand that S.106 contributions are to be spent at the Authority's discretion and NOT as the developer propsed.

Quite right, it is the LA who decides what it is spent on and not what the developer wants.

 

[TheBigD]

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/Jacobs-Phase-2-Report.pdf

Proposed timetable is on page 11.

 

[StrollerEd]

spent enjoyable week's holiday this year based in Bere Alston - visited Tavistock.

plan to return, so this is good news

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think that a first application to the council was made in 2008, subject to the proviso of a figure of the building of 800 homes being part of the agreement. Tavistock itself has a population in excess of 11,000. The station, which was built in June 1890 and closed in May 1988, has been converted into three holiday homes in recent years. The trackbed itself is almost intact between Bere Alston and Tavistock.

Will the proposed line carry enough passengers to make it viable? Are the existing roads in the area concerned in need of improvement?

 

[anthony263]

I think that a first application to the council was made in 2008, subject to the proviso of a figure of the building of 800 homes being part of the agreement. Tavistock itself has a population in excess of 11,000. The station, which was built in June 1890 and closed in May 1988, has been converted into three holiday homes in recent years. The trackbed itself is almost intact between Bere Alston and Tavistock.

Will the proposed line carry enough passengers to make it viable? Are the existing roads in the area concerned in need of improvement?

Personally i would like to hope that the service will get enough passengers to make it viable, hopefully as well the link between Tavistock and Okehampton will also be re-built it may also attract many more passengers who might drive to Exeter etc.

According to the document which was posted a few post's back, it seems the tavistock trains will be worked by class 153's.


Considering we have had many lines re-opened in wales, scotland and ireland, am i right in believing that this is 1st in england for a number of years if it does get built?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at the bus situation at present, the services run by Jacketts Coaches are as follows:-

Service 87......Tavistock - Bere Alston - Tavistock circular
Service 87A....Tavistock - Bere Alston

The timetables are not very inspiring, especially after 1600.

Looks like another "Titfield Thunderbolt" versus "nasty" coach operator, all over again.

 

[Greenback]

Considering we have had many lines re-opened in wales, scotland and ireland, am i right in believing that this is 1st in england for a number of years if it does get built?

England is certainly lagging behind Scotland and Wales. The last reopening of note I can recall was the Robin Hood Line.

Looking at the bus situation at present, the services run by Jacketts Coaches are as follows:-

Service 87......Tavistock - Bere Alston - Tavistock circular
Service 87A....Tavistock - Bere Alston

The timetables are not very inspiring, especially after 1600.

Looks like another "Titfield Thunderbolt" versus "nasty" coach operator, all over again.

The timetables in the consultation document are interesting I personally am disappointed that Gunnislake and Calstock will get a reduced service, but I suppose that is the best that can be done due to a lack of a loop and platform at Bere Alston.

 

[anthony263]

It was suggested that there would be a passing loop and further double track sections built if the link between Tavistock and okehampton is -re-opened to allow an hourly service between Plymouth - Tavistock - Okehampton - Exeter St Davids in addition to te eGunnislake trains.

Such a link would be ideal if there are problems along the sea wall at Dawlish and could be used for diversions etc until another line is built to by-pass the sea wall at Dawlish.

 

[Greenback]

It was suggested that there would be a passing loop and further double track sections built if the link between Tavistock and okehampton is -re-opened to allow an hourly service between Plymouth - Tavistock - Okehampton - Exeter St Davids in addition to te eGunnislake trains.

Such a link would be ideal if there are problems along the sea wall at Dawlish and could be used for diversions etc until another line is built to by-pass the sea wall at Dawlish.

It would be a useful diversionary route IF it gets built. In the meantime, the other villages see a worse service to allow Tavistock to get one!

 

[Mojo]

I attended a conference in Plymouth in September 2008 at which this very same thing was discussed; with the developers discussing outlining their plans, which were received positively by the audience who specialised in running community railways.

 

[martinsh]

The station, which was built in June 1890 and closed in May 1988

I think you will find it closed in May 1968 !!

 

[yorksrob]

It would be a useful diversionary route IF it gets built. In the meantime, the other villages see a worse service to allow Tavistock to get one!

Perhaps they could just split the trains at Bere Alston in true Southern style !

 

[williamn]

Splitting trains would seem to be the most sensible solution, yes!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think you will find it closed in May 1968 !!

Well spotted, young man. A typo error on my part that I should have checked before posting. Incidentally, the three self-catering holiday cottages that were constructed in the shell of the old station building were awarded 5 stars by Visit Britain.

 

[ACE1888]

http://www.oldtavistockrailwaystation.co.uk/

Shame the rest of the station was redeveloped though:cry:

 

[oattam09]

It was suggested that there would be a passing loop and further double track sections built if the link between Tavistock and okehampton is -re-opened to allow an hourly service between Plymouth - Tavistock - Okehampton - Exeter St Davids in addition to te eGunnislake trains.

Such a link would be ideal if there are problems along the sea wall at Dawlish and could be used for diversions etc until another line is built to by-pass the sea wall at Dawlish.

Any idea how long the plymouth-exeter journey time would be?

 

[anthony263]

Any idea how long the plymouth-exeter journey time would be?

Not too sure, i think the plan was for trains to depart Exeter at 50 minutes past the hour and 20 minutes pas the hour from Plymouth.

 

[fgwrich]

Just read back abit - most of this was also discussed last summer on the Gunnislake Line thread, but as its pretty much relevant to what where discussing here, ill pretty much repeat my comment from last June

http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33950

What needs to be done for the railways of Devon, is pretty much on the lines of this:

The former Southern region mainline into Plymouth Needs to see some sort of eventual reinstatement but ideally carried out like this.

Exeter to Plymouth via Crediton, Okehampton, and Tavistock should be reinstated as double track and upgraded stations to a point just after Okehampton – (Potentially Meldon, but this has been hindered by the construction of the fairly newish bridge carrying the A30 over the route was unfortunately built to accommodate a single track route only!) with the section from Okehampton west / Meldon to East of Tavistock gaining 90/100 mph continuous welded rail on steel sleepers with Bi Directional Signalling and at least 1 or 2 Dynamic Passing Loops (dependt on passing loop lengths) with a station halt – on one of the loops at Lydford.

Then, arriving into Tavistock, around the Wilminstone Viaduct are, the line would then go back to double track for the rest of the route until the junction at St Budeaux Victoria Road.

The only problem I can see in the Tavistock areas are of course the station site – which im afraid award winning B&B or no B&B, a compulsory purchase order would have to be required for the site – as would the requirement of the West Devon Borough Council to relocate as their offices are located just on the edge of the curve just to the east of the station site – Apart from that and a couple of extended gardens to the west of Tavistock, the trackbed from Meldon to Bere Alston fortunately, remains pretty clear.

Next stage– Tavistock to Plymouth. Double track from Tavistock all the way down to St Budeaux Victoria Road, with reinstated second platforms at each station – the main potential source of expense on this section could be the refurbishment of the former Southern region viaducts en route – Tavy viaduct and the Tamerton Foliot viaduct (first one from St Bedeaux

Now, turning to the services bit, this is how id like / expect to see the services operated like this:

South West Trains would then operate an hourly service from Waterloo to Plymouth via Okehampton – with services calling at:
Exeter St Davids,
Crediton,
Sampford Courtenay,
Okehampton,
Tavistock
Bere Alston,
St Budeaux Victoria Road – Potential interchange for Cornish bound services and west of Plymouth bus services
Plymouth

With First Great Western operating the all stations services and newly formed Gunnislake shuttles:

Devonport
Dockyard
Keyham
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Bere Ferris
Bere Alston - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} Tavistock to Gunnislake shuttle– 153 Operated
Tavistock - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} Tavistock to Gunnislake shuttle– 153 Operated

Tamar Valley line services would now operate Plymouth (North Road) to Tavistock, or if the other plan I produced last year has / had the potential to come to fruition:

Friary,
Laira
Plymouth,
Devonport
Dockyard
Keyham
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Bere Ferris
Bere Alston - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} TSK to GSL shuttle– 153 Operated
Tavistock - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} Tavistock to Gunnislake shuttle– 153 Operated

And the Exeter to Exeter circular service could call at:

Exeter St Davids
Marsh Barton (Future Planned Station)
Exminster (Future Planned Station)
Dawlish
Teignmouth
Newton Abbot
Totnes
Ivybridge
Plympton?
Plymouth
Devonport
Dockyard
Keyham
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Bere Ferris
Bere Alston
Tavistock
Lydford (Would be on the Dynamic Loop)
Meldon - Railhead for the Dartmoor area
Okehampton (Change for bus services to Bude, unless D&C Railways start on reinstatement of the Bude branch towards Holdsworthy)
Sampford Courtney
Bow (Fairly close to Copplestone so station could, or could not be included in reopening)
Yeoford (Interchange for Barnstaple / Bideford services)
Crediton (Interchange for Barnstaple / Bideford services)
Newton St Cyres (Depending on Passenger loadings on the Barnstaple services)
Exeter St Davids

This plan at least providing a diversionary route for FGWs ‘Intercity’ services & Cross Country services when there’s problems along the sea wall and engineering works, and local services and a competitive express service from Plymouth to Exeter / London

As for the Kilbride Group proposal, its good and I for one would certainly like to finally come into fruition – only problem is, this proposal has been around for a good few years, and at the last stage I heard that its was more development funded than government funded – ala development of 250 (I believe) houses, and the line gets built – Which as all very well, but they of course require planning permission, and if that’s turned down, then no houses = blow for the chances of having the line reinstated…

The other slight problem I have is with the consultants plans – firstly the use of 153s on the route displacing 150s, and the timetable provided.

153s are good units, don’t get me wrong, but unless they are operated as a 2 car service, then overcrowding could pretty easily result, especially as Tavistock would also act as a railhead for west Devon / north Cornwall / Kernow – With improved bus services, Launceston, Bude? Etc…

Also, the Timetable – I have to admit I find rather strange…Ok, so whilst the route in its current form is somewhat limited in not having any passing loops, but surely it would be possible to install a Penryn style passing loop somewhere en route? And the other thing I find rather odd about the timetable, is whilst Tavistock gets its service and Gunnislake gets its reduced, the Tavistock services are listed as fast – Tavistock, Bere Alston, Plymouth – Which then completely misses out Bere Ferris, St Budeaux Victoria Road, Keyham, Dockyard & Devonport stations…

What id rather see in this case, is potentially the Gunnislake service becoming a shuttle from Tavistock – operated by a single 153 shuttle, whilst the new Tavistock service then takes over the current Gunnislake service calling pattern on an hourly basis – Potentially Half hourly with a Penryn style passing loop at Bere Ferris.

So that’s pretty much by take on it – sorry for the long post!

 

[Greenback]

It would make more sense to add in a passing loop at the same time that the Tavistock section is reinstated, but that isn't really the British way. It's much more likely that the line will be put back, and far more people from the surrounding area will flock to Tavistock for the train to Plymouth than was forecast,

This will result ina clamour for a better service and better trains, and additional work will need to be done which will cost far more than it would have done initially - just like the Ebbw Vale line really!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The only problem I can see in the Tavistock areas are of course the station site – which im afraid award winning B&B or no B&B, a compulsory purchase order would have to be required for the site – as would the requirement of the West Devon Borough Council to relocate as their offices are located just on the edge of the curve just to the east of the station.

Just as an addition to this, was not the Station Master's house also to be converted into a private dwelling in addition to the existing station conversion that has been referred to in this thread.

Have any views on this proposal been sought and received from West Devon Borough Council on the proposal itself or the fact that their offices would have to be relocated? With the current financial strimgencies, the cost of replacement premises will not be in any of their forward planning budgets. No-one seems to have a cost estimate for this at present.

What have been the views of the local political parties in relation to this proposal and has any survey of the opinion of the townspeople been assessed.