Leyland Bus
Member
Will be refurbished and repainted.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
TfGM Bee Network - fleet discussion
- Thread starter Leyland Bus
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
jeffery9098
On Moderation
How is the grid a issue + it wont happen.. 'by 2030'. Looking at current situation TfGM/GMCA want to make bus network fully green. The issue was lack of funding however, with government finally caring and gave us the funded we need, it is possible to reach that deadline.
Let's take a note of Bolton Depot. Bolton has those additional chargers that EV hardly uses as it has a electric bay that is sufficent enough to charge up 69 Electric Buses (not at the same time but you get that picture). Bolton theoretically could get more electric buses but we know Go-Ahead is allergic to investment for North West and would rather relay on TfGM to provide them with more vehicles. OCC is only thing that is considered a great investment by GoAhead as they actually spent their money on it.
TfGM plans for electrification (bus depots) and reaching their 'by 2030' target is shown that making the depots that don't have chargers have highest priority and once all of the depot have chargers... they'll end up like Ashton. Now with Stockport, It may have issues trying to gain electrification but as soon they find an plot of land/depot that is sufficient enough for electrification them Stockport would have a fully electric fleet by time then, like 2029 for a example... Nearly all of the Bus Depots would've been fully electric/running electric buses which makes Stockport the last bus depot to become fully green.
Plans may get changed for Queens Road as if they are able to fix the roof as stated a massive obstacle then, TfGM might just make Queens Road run 100% electric buses fleet by dedicating more chargers into the program which leads up to another bus depot going green.
National Grid, currently is capable of such electricity spikes but by time the start of 1000 electric buses order begins. It won't be a issue as electric buses can last around 500 miles [480 miles] (BYD BD11) which could result into not needing to charge them so often which could lead into less stress on the grid and with Electricity North West substations programs majority of them are set for completion before 2030 for Greater Manchester so by time 2030 the grid would've of been upgraded and able to handle such spikes of electricity but that all depends on the electric buses technology in the future if it improves to the point by 2030... an electric bus can last a week or a month from one charge.
The funding is there and its all possible within 5 years timeframe. It's just all depends if they are able to plan it well...
Class 466
Established Member
Biggst issue with the Queens Road EV plan is that it reduces the Depot capacity by around 40 vehicles that will all need somewhere else to run from.
jeffery9098
On Moderation
I don't think that would cause a major issue. TfGM would likely move routes to varies depots. I'm pretty sure Queens Road always had issues with depot capacity which could be the reason why operators that operate from this depot get significantly less operating discs when they operate from the depot. I mean it could likely be the reason why TfGM moved the 17/18 to Oldham for the extra space at Queens Road.
We just have to wait and see if TfGM/GMCA can think of a bold and clear plan for this. They have the funding so I don't think there would be a issue relocating services to other depots and if they move them to correct depots and provide sufficient vehicles that can help with addition of the routes added to that depot then wont be much a issue
SLTRegular
Member
I hear Rotalas are for sale
Leyland Bus
Member
That's quite possible
Class 466
Established Member
Ideal solution would be for some satellite depot space around Bury to reduce the amount of dead running to/from Queens RoadI don't think that would cause a major issue. TfGM would likely move routes to varies depots. I'm pretty sure Queens Road always had issues with depot capacity which could be the reason why operators that operate from this depot get significantly less operating discs when they operate from the depot. I mean it could likely be the reason why TfGM moved the 17/18 to Oldham for the extra space at Queens Road.
We just have to wait and see if TfGM/GMCA can think of a bold and clear plan for this. They have the funding so I don't think there would be a issue relocating services to other depots and if they move them to correct depots and provide sufficient vehicles that can help with addition of the routes added to that depot then wont be much a issue
Shame they built on the old depot.
WWH44L
Member
- Joined
- 7 Nov 2014
- Messages
- 149
Pretty sure they haven’t built on it, just converted it into a car showroom.
MCRTransitYT
Member
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Leyland Bus
Member
Was it??
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Yes, and a fortune in business rates.
Leyland Bus
Member
As it may have been, surely Queens is worse?? A 40 year old garage compared to one well over a century old?? I also feel that First was just allergic to covered garages (see Crook Street as another example)
Closing Bury was an absolutely idiotic mistake. GMT wanted rid of a Bury garage in the 70s and it didn't work then. It's definitely one of the reasons Bolton struggles so much, far too many buses and not enough room to work on them all...
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Queens Road may well have been worse (?) but it was better located.
Covered garages cost more. That is without dispute. Excluding the Bury offices and maintenance area (i.e. just the undercover parking area), you're looking at c£300-400k p.a. (in today's money) in business rates and utilities just to keep your buses dry. Little wonder that Preston Bus demolished one of the old sheds at Deepdale to save money. Arriva did the same at Birkenhead. However, First has certainly been more active in getting rid of its older depots e.g. Glasgow.
Crook Street was demolished simply because it was in a prime development location though.
We're risking mixing drinks here but in fairness, that's been done by a few management teams a number of times with cock-eyed decisions. The reason may be sound but the solution isn't. Bury, as in the case of Rotherham (First), Bishop Auckland (Arriva) and Chester le Street (Go Ahead), saw depots closed because they were big old sheds that, in some cases, needed expensive work doing to them. The problem was that they were closed and instead of being replaced by a cheaper alternative (yes, open parking), their work was simply farmed out with routes to other depots that then incurred dead mileage and/or complex interworking that is a reliability nightmare.
Class 466
Established Member
Can think of plenty of routes that would benefit from being based in Bury from either Bolton, Queens and Rochdale - I think a far wider strategic review of routes and the depots they’re based from wouldn’t go amiss regardless
johncrossley
Established Member
A huge new depot at Central Park is planned:
which will presumably replace existing depots, likely including one or more of Middleton, Queens Road and Oldham.
which will presumably replace existing depots, likely including one or more of Middleton, Queens Road and Oldham.
Class 466
Established Member
News from 2 years ago and there’s not exactly been much progress on the site.A huge new depot at Central Park is planned:
which will presumably replace existing depots, likely including one or more of Middleton, Queens Road and Oldham.
mayneway
Member
Give the money they have spent on Oldham and Middleton electrifying them, not to mention the ongoing refurb of Queens road I find it surprising if this is still the plan.A huge new depot at Central Park is planned:
which will presumably replace existing depots, likely including one or more of Middleton, Queens Road and Oldham.
I pass through Central Park everyday and at one point there was some land drilling and surveying done on the land but for over a year now nothing much has happened.
Leedsbusman
Member
Nor has planning permission been given as far as I can tell.
jeffery9098
On Moderation
a bit silly First trying to experiment with the failing depots in Greater Manchester by closing the only depot that generated the most profit and splitting routes between those depots.
jeffery9098
On Moderation
wouldve of been a great solution but that depot is long gone. Their current option is to either split them between the depots that are capable for extra bus space/routes or that central park depot (but would seem a bit useless if they've got funding and make significant progress at the other depots that are current under electrification process...
jeffery9098
On Moderation
If that option was proven to be successful and reasonable... they would've of replaced Queens Road and Middleton mainly due to fact both of them combined would result into near that 250 buses target. As Oldham is already capable of having around 200 buses so would seem a bit dafted to close that aswell + electrification exist so :/A huge new depot at Central Park is planned:
which will presumably replace existing depots, likely including one or more of Middleton, Queens Road and Oldham.
jeffery9098
On Moderation
Looking at 150 how thats getting moved to Hyde Road which I presumed was lack of sufficent vehicles being able to get allocated and stay permanent on that 150... e.g. long E200MMC not being permanent solution most of times which results into few occasions where small enviro200mmcs getting thrown onto the route which if its peak times would result into issues.
TfGM using the Volvo BZL SD they have and slowly adapting what else can they do (doing nothing with them until Middleton). It makes logical sense to utilise the BZL SD to be sent over to Hyde Road (already having chargers) and relocate 150 from Wythenshawe to Hyde Road to release stress with having to allocate 11.8m Enviro200MMC to that certain route when sometimes such as 263 they could get allocated those smaller lengths which would be insufficient and lead into issues.
unless going back to that vehicle order TfGM and shown that 12 BZL Midi were brought by someone but no one knew then could means the answer has been solved..
Leedsbusman
Member
How do you know Bury generated most profit?
Leyland Bus
Member
A good question.
I'm not sure it made "the most" profit but it certainly did well compared to other depots. How do I know that? I worked there long enough to know that. Burys problem was vast fleet of buses that were expensive to maintain. Scania bendy and Merc Citaro parts were horribly expensive and mostly had to be bought from the manufacturer. Bury would always blow its budget for engineering but always did well with what it had. The garage itself wanted little work doing (it was relatively youthful in comparison to others). Bury was the first real major sign of panic amongst management I'd say, who had overseen the decline of First Manchester...
But I think all this is for another thread really...
D Mylchreest
Member
I don't know if this has been discussed before (88 pages is a lot to get through) but I was in Manchester a few weekends ago and was intrigued that the buses and trams seemed to be painted in different shades of yellow
Leyland Bus
Member
I'm not even getting started...
(resident coachpainter btw)It's a thing sadly...
MCRTransitYT
Member
I saw that the other day where an e400 had a much lighter yellow to the e200mmc infront. Surely they should just make tons of the correct paint and send it out to the painting place
Leyland Bus
Member
It's to do with the paint code, in that it's not a standard fixed RAL or BS colour. It's a very loose definition so to speak amd it means that different paint companies will produce it to "their" spec rather than a standard spec and so there are variations. There's atleast 5 at Bolton alone...