TfL Suggest Possible DLR New Routes, and Thames Road Crossings Campaign

[Greenback]

It would be good if everyone could use full names of stations at least once before using even the standard three letter station codes. Thanks.

 

[Busaholic]

Ooh there would be uproar!!!

I must be prescient. Today's announcement by Dept of Transport and TfL regarding upgrading etc of London suburban rail services mentions a possible interchange at Brockley between South Eastern and South Central (and therefore Overground too) services, which would certainly increase demand at Brockley for Overground services, principally northbound but southbound too. A way would then have to be found to increase capacity on this part of the Overground network.

 

[Clip]

It would be good if everyone could use full names of stations at least once before using even the standard three letter station codes. Thanks.

Yeah I normally don't use codes but for some reason I did then. Sorry.

I must be prescient. Today's announcement by Dept of Transport and TfL regarding upgrading etc of London suburban rail services mentions a possible interchange at Brockley between South Eastern and South Central (and therefore Overground too) services, which would certainly increase demand at Brockley for Overground services, principally northbound but southbound too. A way would then have to be found to increase capacity on this part of the Overground network.

New Cross gate makes more sense surely? or even getting plat 7 open at Norwood junction which could then hold trains for faster ones to pass?? Brockley makes no sense to me.

 

[londonerhere]

Please do correct me if I am wrong, but to my understanding TfL wants to build both bridges.

Furthermore, today's news of TfL taking over suburban rail services, suggest London Overground should be reaching the area in the not too far future.

The Belvedere bridge appears to be close to Belvedere station south of the river.

So what do people think of an Overground service running from Cannon Street/London Bridge, Deptford, Greenwich, Maze Hill, etc. to Belvedere, where the trains will then go over the Bridge to Rainham, Dagenham Dock and terminating at Barking Riverside.

A second Overground service from Cannon Street/London Bridge, New Cross, St Johns, Lewisham, Blackheath, etc. could loop around the Erith Loop to Belvedere and cross the bridge to Rainham, Dagenham Dock and terminating at Barking Riverside.


In this scenario, work would need to be carried out at Belvedere to allow both overground lines to connect and cross the proposed bridge, as well as create an interchange between the two lines I proposed. Barking Riverside would also need to be constructed in a way that would allow multiple lines to terminate there. A relatively small amount of track will need to be added over and on either side of the bridge to connect the lines I suggested.

I think this idea would connect East and South East London to Central London and also links to Crossrail.



With Gallions Reach tunnel/bridge, I feel a tram from Beckenham Junction to cross the bridge and connect to Barking would be the "greenest" option and connect a larger area of South London to the South East (of London). I would personally like to see more tram in London, but I don't think I will have much support for that. So I am not opposed to the OP's first post with the DLR map.


(My first post! Be nice! =])

 

[MikeWh]

New Cross gate makes more sense surely? or even getting plat 7 open at Norwood junction which could then hold trains for faster ones to pass?? Brockley makes no sense to me.

Surely the idea is to build platforms on the Lewisham to Nunhead line which crosses the north end of the platforms at Brockley. It's certainly an interchange I may well use when travelling to Norwood Junction.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Surely the idea is to build platforms on the Lewisham to Nunhead line which crosses the north end of the platforms at Brockley. It's certainly an interchange I may well use when travelling to Norwood Junction.

That was my reading of it too. It would be very useful - seems insane that the Lewisham-Nunhead line passes right over the station but with no platforms at the moment. I would assume this also means TfL are thinking of increasing the frequency along that line too - since the current half-hourly service wouldn't make for much of an interchange by London standards!

I must be prescient. Today's announcement by Dept of Transport and TfL regarding upgrading etc of London suburban rail services mentions a possible interchange at Brockley between South Eastern and South Central (and therefore Overground too) services, which would certainly increase demand at Brockley for Overground services, principally northbound but southbound too. A way would then have to be found to increase capacity on this part of the Overground network.

I would say the opposite - that the principle effect would be to increase demand heading South from Brockley: People on the Nunhead-Lewisham line wanting the Overground northbound can already get to it by changing at Peckham Rye, or going via Lewisham-New Cross. Being able to change at Brockley will be a bit faster, which probably will attract some new passengers, but I wouldn't expect that to have a massive impact. On the other hand, it's currently much harder to get to the Overground heading South - you either have to go in to London Bridge and back, or walk from New Cross to New Cross Gate - so I'd expect the Brockley interchange to have a much greater impact on demand for those journeys.

 

[Clip]

Surely the idea is to build platforms on the Lewisham to Nunhead line which crosses the north end of the platforms at Brockley. It's certainly an interchange I may well use when travelling to Norwood Junction.

Id forgotten about that Is that even possible to do so there? There's not much room there to do so is there?

 

[Busaholic]

That was my reading of it too. It would be very useful - seems insane that the Lewisham-Nunhead line passes right over the station but with no platforms at the moment. I would assume this also means TfL are thinking of increasing the frequency along that line too - since the current half-hourly service wouldn't make for much of an interchange by London standards!



I would say the opposite - that the principle effect would be to increase demand heading South from Brockley: People on the Nunhead-Lewisham line wanting the Overground northbound can already get to it by changing at Peckham Rye, or going via Lewisham-New Cross. Being able to change at Brockley will be a bit faster, which probably will attract some new passengers, but I wouldn't expect that to have a massive impact. On the other hand, it's currently much harder to get to the Overground heading South - you either have to go in to London Bridge and back, or walk from New Cross to New Cross Gate - so I'd expect the Brockley interchange to have a much greater impact on demand for those journeys.

I would expect reasonable demand from those wanting to travel south, but I don't believe this would make the scheme viable to the numbercrunchers. Peckham Rye currently offers a 4 tph service on Overground , opposed to the 8 tph from Brockley. Lewisham/New Cross are not accessible for most on the Catford Loop, without a transfer from Catford to Catford Bridge (please note no interchange is being planned here). Those of us old enough to remember (that's me then a useful service branching from the Hayes line at Elmers End to Addiscombe and Sanderstead, which could have been quite a quick way of getting from Lewisham to Croydon if only the onward bus services had been better! Now with Tramlink Addiscombe is better served, but how to get to A?

 

[Chris125]

Id forgotten about that Is that even possible to do so there? There's not much room there to do so is there?

It should be possible, perhaps in the location of the former Brockley Lane station

 

[theageofthetra]

If a Brockley interchange is planned then surely the whole infrastructure from Lewisham to Denmark Hill should be upgraded too? Large parts have 20mph PSR's and only 8 coach trains can be used at present. I admit it is a major project but no more than the 'Overgroundisation' of the old Silverlink routes. The other big project that would have a massive impact is a complete redesign of Brixton (lack of disabled accessibility may well force this) to allow connection between LU, LO and the existing NR services. Again a huge and very difficult project but I can see it happening if TFL's empire takes over all of the South London Metro routes.

 

[jopsuk]

one issue with providing LO interchange at Brixton is that it would funnel more people to the Victoria line. Which lacks the capacity... Otherwise, of course, it's a great idea

 

[Clip]

It should be possible, perhaps in the location of the former Brockley Lane station

But theres housing development there now AFAIK so is there room?

 

[Busaholic]

one issue with providing LO interchange at Brixton is that it would funnel more people to the Victoria line. Which lacks the capacity... Otherwise, of course, it's a great idea

The reason it wasn't considered originally was cost-based, I always understood, just as the decision by Mayor Johnson to scrap the Victoria to Bellingham service planned as part replacement and enhancement of the South London Line was a political one also based on cost.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If I might be so bold as to pull this thread back to its original topic - the possible Ilford-Bexleyheath DLR line, which TfL have suggested as part of their road crossings consultation...

If anyone wants to send TfL any input on this, you only have 5 more days. The consultation closes this Friday, 12 Feb. Details here

Personally, I'm responding to the consultation to say that any new crossings should be primarily public transport-based, not road based, since road-based crossings will inevitably induce a mode-shift to cars, which increases congestion, slows down other people's journeys, and would end up therefore doing as much harm as good. DLR6 (TfL's name for the Ilford-Bexleyheath DLR line) would have a massive, transformative effect on connectivity in SouthEast London, so I'll be suggesting it should be built instead of road crossings, not simply kept as a possible afterthought for them. And I'd urge anyone here who is interested in or concerned about transport in East London to respond too (hopefully in similar terms).

And if I can be cheeky enough to do a plug: More specific info about some of the problems with the crossings on the Bexley Against Road Crossings site.

 

[Clip]

And if I can be cheeky enough to do a plug: More specific info about some of the problems with the crossings on the Bexley Against Road Crossings site.

That is a god awful website. However Ill have to ask again where they think this crossing at Gallions will go? Im off to pick me lass up later form work but unless they do it over the Redgrave bridge then there's no more room there given the Uni buildings and flats that are now being built land there?