TfW 175 shortages

[ValleyLines142]

Today, out of twelve services from Crewe to Cardiff, only two of them were 175s (175003 and 175102). The rest were all 150s and 153s, bar two which were 158s.

The problem is, whilst a 150 is better than cancelling a service altogether, with their modifications there actually isn't a lot of seating room on there!

 

[Bikeman78]

Probably the most repeated phrase on this forum.

Not in all circumstances. For those in a rush, yes.
For those with Advance tickets that aren’t in a rush, cancelling the train gives them the opportunity to take the next one which has heating, quiet motors and a more welcoming ambience. If their train still runs they don’t have that option.

You could be in for a long wait when three consecutive trains are class 150s. Genuinely don't get it. There are plenty of trains I don't like but I'll get on them if I need to go somewhere.

 

[william.martin]

So why are there so few 175's?

 

[D365]

You could be in for a long wait when three consecutive trains are class 150s. Genuinely don't get it. There are plenty of trains I don't like but I'll get on them if I need to go somewhere.

Indeed that's the risk. Agree with your comments here.

 

[Sion John]

According to RTT the 0857 Milford Haven to Crewe is a single 153 (153320). Running 10 mins late currently.

Something that crossed my mind the other day is what was the 0630 Manchester to Milford on a Saturday that used to be the booked 158 working now gets split at Cardiff is is the 0627 Manchester to Cardiff booked for a MK4 (even though it might not be a MK4 at the moment). I guess that puts an end to 158s being officially booked for any Manchester-South Wales runs apart from maybe a Sunday.

The 0857 Milford Haven to Crewe on the 28.01.23 was 153320+153968, I was in it from Burry Port to Newport. Realtime Trains said 153320 on its own for some reason.

 

[RailWonderer]

Years ago we made do with spending hours on drafty Pacers and Sprinters. We've become too used to all the refinements that now people complain. As for the 175s, I can only imagine that parts are scarcer and that is why they spend longer out of service. There are only 21* of them just like the class 360s, they are a small fleet. Now TfW is getting the 197s and the Stadlers the consequences of a lost 175 should be less uncomfortable and less common now thankfully. Just no Manchester - Cardiff services on a 150 or 153 please.

*27.

 

[JonathanH]

There are only 21 of them just like the class 360s, they are a small fleet.

27

 

[Jez]

The 0857 Milford Haven to Crewe on the 28.01.23 was 153320+153968, I was in it from Burry Port to Newport. Realtime Trains said 153320 on its own for some reason.

Thanks for confirming.

Years ago we made do with spending hours on drafty Pacers and Sprinters. We've become too used to all the refinements that now people complain. As for the 175s, I can only imagine that parts are scarcer and that is why they spend longer out of service. There are only 21* of them just like the class 360s, they are a small fleet. Now TfW is getting the 197s and the Stadlers the consequences of a lost 175 should be less uncomfortable and less common now thankfully. Just no Manchester - Cardiff services on a 150 or 153 please.

*27.

Unfortunately a 150 or pair of 153s turning up on long distance services seems even more common since the 197s came into service than it was before. Hopefully getting the 197s into service on all their routes (aside from the Cambrian/Birmingham route which will happen later) will be sorted out urgently and we can say goodbye to the 150s/153s on long distance routes.

 

[el_lnrd]

I disagree, we are in 2020 the standard of comfort aboard sprinters is simply not fine. There is no air-con, the noise levels are very high. If TFW was serious about raising the profile of the Manchester-Cardiff route there should have been more planning going into the 175s-197s/Mk4s transition. I am appalled given that the immediate future of railway is more in leisure travel as in business/commuters at the moment and sprinters send the wrong messages.

Could the 175s have gone to Alstom manchester/longsight to be maintained? No ideal solution...

 

[Llanigraham]

I doubt that the vast majority of passengers know what unit was supposed to be running any service or what unit turns up at their station. All they want is for a TRAIN to turn up.

 

[Jez]

I doubt that the vast majority of passengers know what unit was supposed to be running any service or what unit turns up at their station. All they want is for a TRAIN to turn up.

I agree most people want a train to turn up for their service. However I would think most people would notice the difference in standards between a 175 and a 150/153 turning up.

I disagree, we are in 2020 the standard of comfort aboard sprinters is simply not fine. There is no air-con, the noise levels are very high. If TFW was serious about raising the profile of the Manchester-Cardiff route there should have been more planning going into the 175s-197s/Mk4s transition. I am appalled given that the immediate future of railway is more in leisure travel as in business/commuters at the moment and sprinters send the wrong messages.

Could the 175s have gone to Alstom manchester/longsight to be maintained? No ideal solution...

Yes it is a shame it wasnt planned better. I guess having a lot of Spinters on the route is just something we have to put up with in the short term until the 197s start running the services.

 

[Llanigraham]

I agree most people want a train to turn up for their service. However I would think most people would notice the difference in standards between a 175 and a 150/153 turning up.

They might notice a difference as it arrives, but as I said I very much doubt they would know what was expected beforehand.

 

[6Gman]

Yes I agree. But 4 hours on a freezing cold train isn't great.

judging by the review of the 197s in the current Modern Railways that may be about to become a more common experience.

 

[43096]

judging by the review of the 197s in the current Modern Railways that may be about to become a more common experience.

If you read this forum, you'll find some who think they want the train colder in winter than in summer. The 197s should be right up their street!

 

[Jez]

judging by the review of the 197s in the current Modern Railways that may be about to become a more common experience.

I look forward to reading that.

 

[Razorblades]

Could the 175s have gone to Alstom Manchester Longsight to be maintained? No ideal solution...

The 175s have been looked after at MA/ LO before, but only for certain inspections and modifications/ exams. It's been 20 years since my involvement with the depot's third-party workload (i.e non-Pendolino/ Super Voyager), so I can't guess what capacity, if any, the depot has these days.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

The 175s have been looked after at MA/ LO before, but only for certain inspections and modifications/ exams. It's been 20 years since my involvement with the depot's third-party workload (i.e non-Pendolino/ Super Voyager), so I can't guess what capacity, if any, the depot has these days.

175s have been going there recently for exams. 175111 is in pieces there now, apparently has no engines.

 

[Krokodil]

I doubt that the vast majority of passengers know what unit was supposed to be running any service or what unit turns up at their station. All they want is for a TRAIN to turn up.

Preferably one with more than two coaches. Saturday was awful, even before you throw Avanti's displaced passengers into the mix.

 

[william.martin]

For people who aren't interested in the railways most people don't judge by the class of train as frankly they don't know what it is so it is just a case of "this Avanti train is cold" or "this TFW train is shorter than usual" not "why is it so cold onboard 150285 today?"

 

[Krokodil]

For people who aren't interested in the railways most people don't judge by the class of train as frankly they don't know what it is so it is just a case of "this Avanti train is cold" or "this TFW train is shorter than usual" not "why is it so cold onboard 150285 today?"

At least one Member of the Senedd uses a decibel meter when 153s turn up on his journeys between his constituency and Cardiff.

Other passengers will complain about something they perceive to be from the 1960s.

 

[william.martin]

At least one Member of the Senedd uses a decibel meter when 153s turn up on his journeys between his constituency and Cardiff.

Hmmm, sprinters are known for being noisier than 175's and also being noisier than the engine room on a 43 at full wack
(I was pulling your leg with that last one if you didn't notice)

 

[Bikeman78]

judging by the review of the 197s in the current Modern Railways that may be about to become a more common experience.

I expect it is possible to makes the saloons warmer by fiddling with the software. Anything powered by a diesel engine should have plenty of waste heat available to warm the train. All the 150s I've been on recently have been toasty warm. Same goes for the 231s on the Rhymney line.

 

[Surreyman]

I keep hearing/reading that the 175s have serious corrosion issues that mean they are unlikely to have a life beyond Tfw, how true is this? (The fact that they are in everyday service presumably means that there isn't a safety issue).

 

[Dai Corner]

I keep hearing/reading that the 175s have serious corrosion issues that mean they are unlikely to have a life beyond Tfw, how true is this? (The fact that they are in everyday service presumably means that there isn't a safety issue).

Modern Railways, seems to think so.

The future of the 27 Class 175s remains unclear – despite their highly regarded passenger environment it is understood the sets are showing high levels of corrosion and extensive and expensive remedial work would be required if the fleet was to have a new life with a different operator

 

[MCSHF007]

Severe corrosion issues on both 156s and 175s. I appreciate taht they're both (the former more so than the latter) nearing "vintage" status but does this say anything about Washwood Heath?

 

[Philip]

Could the retarders be reactivated on these if the TOC wanted to start using it again, or has the whole system been removed from the units?

 

[craigybagel]

Could the retarders be reactivated on these if the TOC wanted to start using it again, or has the whole system been removed from the units?

As far as I'm aware, it's just a big circuit breaker in the electric cupboard with a do not touch label on it. Bear in mind though they were permanently switched off for a reason - and even with only friction brakes they still stop really well.

 

[Philip]

As far as I'm aware, it's just a big circuit breaker in the electric cupboard with a do not touch label on it. Bear in mind though they were permanently switched off for a reason - and even with only friction brakes they still stop really well.

I guess the cooler group could be re-designed as part of any major works, to help prevent the overheating problems from the transmission oil.

 

[craigybagel]

I guess the cooler group could be re-designed as part of any major works, to help prevent the overheating problems from the transmission oil.

You probably could - but I'm not sure if it would be worth the cost. They've spent more of their life without it than they have with, so they seem to be coping ok. If it was worth the money it probably would have been done years ago.

 

[Wolfie]

Years ago we made do with spending hours on drafty Pacers and Sprinters. We've become too used to all the refinements that now people complain. As for the 175s, I can only imagine that parts are scarcer and that is why they spend longer out of service. There are only 21* of them just like the class 360s, they are a small fleet. Now TfW is getting the 197s and the Stadlers the consequences of a lost 175 should be less uncomfortable and less common now thankfully. Just no Manchester - Cardiff services on a 150 or 153 please.

*27.

But the 360s have massive parts commonality with the 350s and 450s.