TFW guard told me that I can't use a railcard on the train

[Gunemdown]

I've been a long time lurker on these forums, however never made an account as I never had any issues, until now.

Yesterday I was taking the train from a non ticketed station using TFW going to Pontypridd.
I usually make this trip once a week or so and I usually buy my ticket online and use my railcard for a discount.
However yesterday my phone had broke and I was left without a phone for the whole day, so instead of buying my ticket online, I just thought I'd buy it on the train as there are no ticket machines at my local station.

When I got on the train I waited for the guard to approach me, when he did I asked for a single ticket and showed him my railcard for my discount. I was then told that I couldn't use my railcard when buying on the train. I knew that this was wrong and confronted him by saying that I didn't have an earlier chance to buy a ticket, I therefore could use my railcard on the train.
He then went on to lecture me that I was wrong and the policy "must have changed recently"
Since I didn't have my phone on me I didn't feel coconfident in what I was saying as I couldn't read him the terms and conditions

Is what he was saying correct? I felt like such a fool at the time, I get anxious causing a scene so I just paid the full amount.

 

[Hadders]

If there are no ticket issuing facilities at your origin station then you can purchase on board and obtain a railcard discount.

The question key thing is where did you start your journey from and what ticket issuing facilities are available. If there is a ticket machine that accepts your chosen payment method then you must use it.

 

[Gunemdown]

If there are no ticket issuing facilities at your origin station then you can purchase on board and obtain a railcard discount.

The question key thing is where did you start your journey from and what ticket issuing facilities are available. If there is a ticket machine that accepts your chosen payment method then you must use it.

I was travelling from a station without any ticket machines or booths. No way to buy a ticket without using your phone

 

[Gunemdown]

Seems like this also happened to another user.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...me-use-railcard-on-train.186874/#post-4121930

 

[Hadders]

I was travelling from a station without any ticket machines or booths. No way to buy a ticket without using your phone

If there aren't ticket issuing facilities then the guard was wrong and you should complain to TfW and seek a refund of the overcharge.

 

[Gunemdown]

If there aren't ticket issuing facilities then the guard was wrong and you should complain to TfW and seek a refund of the overcharge.

Exactly what I thought, how on earth are those guards trained to not know this?

 

[yorkie]

Please do write to TfW requesting a refund of the difference; I'd also argue they should pay some compensation for the inconvenience

TfW are keen to prosecute passengers who underpay, yet they overcharge people themselves. Sadly the legislation does not provide for a level playing field.

Nevertheless, they are in breach of cobtract and consumer laws, and it's also a breach of their franchise, so if they refuse to resolve the matter to your satisfaction you can escalate the matter to the Rail Ombudsman, inform the DfT if a franchise breach and inform the ORR of a consumer law breach.

 

[Gunemdown]

Please do write to TfW requesting a refund of the difference; I'd also argue they should pay some compensation for the inconvenience

TfW are keen to prosecute passengers who underpay, yet they overcharge people themselves. Sadly the legislation does not provide for a level playing field.

Nevertheless, they are in breach of cobtract and consumer laws, and it's also a breach of their franchise, so if they refuse to resolve the matter to your satisfaction you can escalate the matter to the Rail Ombudsman, inform the DfT if a franchise breach and inform the ORR of a consumer law breach.

Yes, I'll do that. Looking on this forum it seems I am not alone. Another 2 users have been told the same thing by TFW..what on earth is going on. I'll be sure to write a full complaint

 

[danm14]

A post on here from several years ago suggested that ATW guards then earned 4% commission from ticket sales. That means they would earn 4p extra for every £1 extra a Railcard holder wrongly pays.

Assuming a guard works 250 days per year, and the average Railcard discount is £7, they'd only need to do this to an average of ten people per day to earn £700 extra.

I don't want to in any way suggest that this guard is doing so for his own gain - we should never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence - but a guard who was such minded and willing to take a calculated risk (perhaps being selective about who to ask full fare from based on perceived likelihood of them complaining) could get themselves a nice Christmas bonus from it.

 

[RJ]

A post on here from several years ago suggested that ATW guards then earned 4% commission from ticket sales. That means they would earn 4p extra for every £1 extra a Railcard holder wrongly pays.

Assuming a guard works 250 days per year, and the average Railcard discount is £7, they'd only need to do this to an average of ten people per day to earn £700 extra.

I don't want to in any way suggest that this guard is doing so for his own gain - we should never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence - but a guard who was such minded and willing to take a calculated risk (perhaps being selective about who to ask full fare from based on perceived likelihood of them complaining) could get themselves a nice Christmas bonus from it.

I don't think it's helpful to unnecessarily vilify guards when there's so much supposition and guesswork based on conjecture.

From the OP's version of events, it seems they were overcharged and my advice would be for them to contact TfW with a view to being compensated for that.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Yes there are a few leaps of faith to make it a full blown Christmas Club fund but for the guard to say that the rules "must have changed recently" is suspect to say the least.

If they had changed recently then he'd be a lot more sure so in fact I'd hazard to guess he is just making it up. Something frowned upon when it comes to ticket stories on the railway from customers