TFW Stock Shortages

[anamyd]

Speaking of 153's. 153325 (the first PRM compliant one) is out in service for the first time today.

Thanks for the info I can't see why this information isn't available publicly anyway...

 

[anamyd]

But what purpose would it serve? A lot of cost for a few extra seats in comparison with a doubled up 153, which would rarely be needed if the unit is doubled up. And remove the flexibility to run a single coach when that is all that's necessary. Remember these only have a lifespan of a couple of years with TfW and the leasing company isn't going to spend any more unless there is a clear future use and one that requires the units to be reformed as two cars.

Not "a couple of years", they're scheduled to be withdrawn in 2023 I believe

 

[anamyd]

Could also store them in the sidings down st Barry I suppose

ah right yes Maybe I should ask TfW, see if they know anything

 

[anamyd]

You asked this a couple of weeks ago and no one came up with a definite answer.

Well-observed! Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask a couple of weeks later

Not quite sure why it’s that important.

Because the units will have to be stored somewhere when they're not being used.

I'm guessing if the units are not needed for crew training and don’t need any significant work on them then they can be stored securely anywhere around the country until a few days before they’re needed.

And once they're in use, then what...?

But for what it’s worth one possibility is that they have a good relationship with CAF so could use space at their Newport assembly plant.

I doubt that a factory assembling brand new trains will want to store some 17-20 year old early privatisation era DMUs.

 

[krus_aragon]

That's almost exactly what I was thinking. Just couple the small cab of a PRM unit to the small cab of one of the 'temporary' extra units and consider them to be '2-car 153s'. If there are more non-PRM 153s than PRM ones, then form some 3-car sets too. 2-car 153 on Conwy Valley and Heart Of Wales and 3-car on Swansea - Pembroke Dock (in the summer at least) would probably work well, better than a PRM 153 on its own anyway.

The Conwy Valley's due to be a single 153 over the winter, but the pairs of 153s on the Borderlands line (joined because of traction issues at Hawarden bank as well as for capaity) may well be formed that way.

I doubt that a factory assembling brand new trains will want to store some 17-20 year old early privatisation era DMUs.

There's due to be a long siding built along the SWML near Newport for stabling stock for large events in Cardiff; I don't know what progress has been made on this, but it could also be used to hold transferred units prior to their public use.

Once the new stock is in use, there'll be some Pacers being withdrawn at the end of the year, so that'll ease up space. But for the interim period in December, I can only assume that the depot managers have already considered the situation, and balanced the books well enough for it to work.

 

[anamyd]

There's due to be a long siding built along the SWML near Newport for stabling stock for large events in Cardiff; I don't know what progress has been made on this, but it could also be used to hold transferred units prior to their public use.

Once the new stock is in use, there'll be some Pacers being withdrawn at the end of the year, so that'll ease up space. But for the interim period in December, I can only assume that the depot managers have already considered the situation, and balanced the books well enough for it to work.

Ah, OK, thanks for that

 

[Brissle Girl]

Not "a couple of years", they're scheduled to be withdrawn in 2023 I believe

So if they were reformed during 2020, that would be around 2 or 3 years. Not nearly long enough to justify the cost involved, and why would TfW want it anyway?

 

[Chris217]

So does TfW have any derrogation for
Pacers beyond the dead line?

 

[anamyd]

So if they were reformed during 2020, that would be around 2 or 3 years. Not nearly long enough to justify the cost involved, and why would TfW want it anyway?

No I totally agree, they rightly wouldn't see the point either!

 

[Chris217]

TfW could reform 153s in pairs with
1 prm'd car to make a 2 car set available for use with no need to remove cabs.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Well-observed! Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask a couple of weeks later

Because the units will have to be stored somewhere when they're not being used.

And once they're in use, then what...?

I doubt that a factory assembling brand new trains will want to store some 17-20 year old early privatisation era DMUs.

As others have noted, once the 170s are introduced you can be sure that the Pacers will be withdrawn very rapidly, probably on a 1-1 basis. Firstly in terms of cost of continued leasing and maintenance, but more importantly the political fall out from not being seen to make rapid inroads into the fleet. You only have to have watched the 1pm news on the BBC today to realise the pressure TOC's are under to remove them asap. They don't even need to keep them around for a while in case the 170s suffer teething problems in the way that you would with brand new stock of a new design.

As for CAF, if they have the space, and a big customer of theirs asks if they can help out for a few weeks, then why wouldn't they? All good customer relations. I don't know whether they do or not, but presumably there is some secure storage space outside around the factory that might be available in the short term.

 

[Chris217]

Also...they wouldn't need to PRM every car if they operated in pairs.

 

[krus_aragon]

So does TfW have any derrogation for
Pacers beyond the dead line?

Presumably, yes, as they've indicated they'll be keeping some in this press release.

 

[Chris217]

I'll put good money on at least some Pacers...more likely to be the 143s
to still be in service on 1st April 2020!

 

[tomwills98]

Presumably, yes, as they've indicated they'll be keeping some in this press release.

Pacers are staying into 2020 with the 37's with derogations for both, the fine folk at the Senedd have realised that losing 30 trains overnight would leave the sheds a bit too bare. I also suppose they've sent the apprentices out with a scraper for the banners on the side of them promising their removal.

 

[krus_aragon]

Pacers are staying into 2020 with the 37's with derogations for both, the fine folk at the Senedd have realised that losing 30 trains overnight would leave the sheds a bit too bare. I also suppose they've sent the apprentices out with a scraper for the banners on the side of them promising their removal.

Yeup, that's taken as read (and referred to in the press release). Though the banners were cleverly phrased so as not to promise a specific date, just that they're "leaving soon": they're still correct if the date has moved a few months.

What I'm presuming is the detail that Chris21 asked after: whether the derogations have been graned yet.

 

[Cardiff123]

The latest issue of RAIL magazine states that TfW have derogations granted for the 37 + Mk2 sets, but are still waiting for derogations for Pacers and some 150/2s to be granted.

 

[PHILIPE]

We keep on blaming factors such as PRM Modifications, 175 refurbishments etc. for the ongoing shortage of TFW units but I don't think this is the whole picture. You only have to follow Journey Check to see the large number of units that develop faults when out on the road resulting in their withdrawal from service.

Disastrous day today with several City Line, Maesteg and Ebbw Vale services cancelled together with multiple short formed and curtailed trains. The Premier Cardiff to Holyhead Service 1W96 suffered a failure in which case it is normally replaced by a DMU but not tonight.

Also 0534 Holyhead to Cardiff tomorrow cancelled

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Could also store them in the sidings down st Barry I suppose

Or Aberthaw, come to that.

 

[ValleyLines142]

The first City Line was a 153 vice 142 today, which subsequently got delayed along the route because of the long dwell times due to the sheer volume of passengers alighting and boarding. Instead of them replacing it, they decided to just cancel the remaining services from that diagram.

Then, 150229 on the 1834 from Radyr had one carriage in darkness, despite both being on earlier on today.

And to think I've just renewed my monthly season ticket just for this!

 

[Brissle Girl]

That account doesn’t stack up with RTTs reporting of the morning service from Coryton, which was that all services ran, but typically with delays of up to 10 minutes building as the rush hour progressed?

Good to see that a 153 is inadequate these days, as the line used to be a basket case back in the 1980s.

 

[PHILIPE]

That account doesn’t stack up with RTTs reporting of the morning service from Coryton, which was that all services ran, but typically with delays of up to 10 minutes building as the rush hour progressed?

Good to see that a 153 is inadequate these days, as the line used to be a basket case back in the 1980s.

There were 4 cancellations to Coryton during the afternoon and early evening

 

[Chris217]

Barry is full of redundant coal wagons
and bogie freight van types.

 

[ValleyLines142]

That account doesn’t stack up with RTTs reporting of the morning service from Coryton, which was that all services ran, but typically with delays of up to 10 minutes building as the rush hour progressed?

Good to see that a 153 is inadequate these days, as the line used to be a basket case back in the 1980s.

The cancellations were from the afternoon. The 1334 from Radyr terminated at Cardiff Central, and all remaining services from then (i.e. 1415/1545/1715 from Coryton and 1504/1634/1804 from Radyr) cancelled.

Delays still going on throughout the evening. 2020 Penarth to Rhymney replaced by bus and 2031 to Penarth cancelled with seemingly no replacement.

Absolute shambles for TfW today. Let's hope tomorrow is a better day!

 

[anamyd]

The latest issue of RAIL magazine states that TfW have derogations granted for the 37 + Mk2 sets, but are still waiting for derogations for Pacers and some 150/2s to be granted.

Thanks for that info

 

[anamyd]

Barry is full of redundant coal wagons
and bogie freight van types.

Oh yeah, I even saw that on your video

 

[Brissle Girl]

The first City Line was a 153 vice 142 today, which subsequently got delayed along the route because of the long dwell times due to the sheer volume of passengers alighting and boarding. Instead of them replacing it, they decided to just cancel the remaining services from that diagram.

Then, 150229 on the 1834 from Radyr had one carriage in darkness, despite both being on earlier on today.

And to think I've just renewed my monthly season ticket just for this!

The cancellations were from the afternoon. The 1334 from Radyr terminated at Cardiff Central, and all remaining services from then (i.e. 1415/1545/1715 from Coryton and 1504/1634/1804 from Radyr) cancelled.

Ok, but your post said the first City Line was a 153 and that they cancelled subsequent services from that diagram. That seems to be a little different to what happened.

 

[Philip Roberts]

Apparently, two more 170s due to be delivered this week.

 

[Cardiff123]

Apparently, two more 170s due to be delivered this week.

But still none have left Canton sidings.

 

[Chris217]

Oh yeah, I even saw that your video

Ha,thanks mate