Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[physics34]

2 inches on each side = 4 inches. That's what makes the aisles so wide. I personally think it's worth it as these trains just swallow up crowds.

Well.thats the thinking of the dft too, but a compromise would be good.

 

[asylumxl]

On the PIS, am I right in thinking that the toilet screen also shows which are in service? If so, the unit I was on earlier had a toilet out of order that was showing as in service according to the PIS. Just had a sign kindly asking people not to use it.

2 inches on each side = 4 inches. That's what makes the aisles so wide. I personally think it's worth it as these trains just swallow up crowds.

10.16cm is hardly a massive amount. Someone would have to be particularly small to fit in the extra space in the current design.

Having said that, I'm more fussed about the distance between seats than the ducting issues. For the taller of us it can become rather uncomfortable.

 

[jon0844]

It's extra on what's already there. It does make a difference as you can see when walking down.

 

[AM9]

On the PIS, am I right in thinking that the toilet screen also shows which are in service? If so, the unit I was on earlier had a toilet out of order that was showing as in service according to the PIS. Just had a sign kindly asking people not to use it.

I doubt that the system has the ability to detect whether such a sign is present of or not if it doesn't have a sensor on it.

10.16cm is hardly a massive amount. Someone would have to be particularly small to fit in the extra space in the current design.

It would reduce width of the standing space by over 10%

Having said that, I'm more fussed about the distance between seats than the ducting issues. For the taller of us it can become rather uncomfortable.

Well there's plenty of standing room if sitting is not comfortable enough.

 

[asylumxl]

I doubt that the system has the ability to detect whether such a sign is present of or not if it doesn't have a sensor on it.

Well, since many trains have LED indicators showing when a toilet is locked out of use or when it is occupied, one would assume the PIS would be linked in to such information? Perhaps the DfT decided to do further cost cutting.

It would reduce width of the standing space by over 10%

How much standing space is there in the isle between the blocks of seats exactly? Would you like to share a measurement so people can verify your claims.

Well there's plenty of standing room if sitting is not comfortable enough.

I would stand but I fear I'll end up being near a petulant person such as yourself.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's extra on what's already there. It does make a difference as you can see when walking down.

I'll take two inches off the width of your hallway when you're at work and see if you notice .

 

[Class377/5]

1 November apparently http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2765015&postcount=5996

700115 was in service this week doing a Bedford starter on Thursday so presumably in service at least the day before too.

Where is 700106 and what is holding up its entry to service?

Nothing holding up 106. It's been used to do various testing (like first unit to Peterborough) that mean it's not been there for commissioning runs. However today it entered service for the first time.

On the PIS, am I right in thinking that the toilet screen also shows which are in service? If so, the unit I was on earlier had a toilet out of order that was showing as in service according to the PIS. Just had a sign kindly asking people not to use it.

The PIS is linked to the door lock. It could be the senor is broken or maybe the door lock is as there been a few toilets vandalised recently. Sign may have been placed there to ensure no-one used it while unit is cycled back to the depot.

 

[asylumxl]

The PIS is linked to the door lock. It could be the senor is broken or maybe the door lock is as there been a few toilets vandalised recently. Sign may have been placed there to ensure no-one used it while unit is cycled back to the depot.

Thank you, that's what I wanted to know. I assumed it was linked but wasn't entirely sure.

 

[jon0844]

I expect that a few GN users are going to have to get used to vandalism that, bar window etching years ago and some graffiti, has never been that big a thing compared to some services south east.

Still a shame to hear about 700s already suffering, but I guess it's inevitable.

 

[asylumxl]

I expect that a few GN users are going to have to get used to vandalism that, bar window etching years ago and some graffiti, has never been that big a thing compared to some services south east.

Still a shame to hear about 700s already suffering, but I guess it's inevitable.

In my experience it seems to be the services from Kent which see the worst vandalism.

Stabling a train in Bellingham sidings is basically a sure fire way to get a custom paint job.

 

[Class377/5]

Currently GN is having more graffiti than Southern, GatEx and Thameslink combined.

 

[jon0844]

Currently GN is having more graffiti than Southern, GatEx and Thameslink combined.

Do you know where it's happening? I ask because Welwyn Garden City has been suffering some serious issues with anti social behaviour the last 3 or 4 months and I wondered if the problems could be happening at the sidings there?

 

[notverydeep]

Currently GN is having more graffiti than Southern, GatEx and Thameslink combined.

The trouble is, if you want your fleet to resemble 1960s New York Subway trains, then put them into service with the results of the graffiti attack apparent to everyone, likea this mornings GN 387s, which I saw at Finsbury Park. Instant publicity and 'status' for the graffiti vandal and a guaranteed way of attracting 10 more similar or worse attacks.

The only solution is to keep them in the depot. It was at a pity that the industry lacked the guts to defend this approach robustly when Evening Standard recently ran at a series of negative articles about cancellations due to serious graffiti a month or two ago. Regular graffiti damages passengers' perceptions of their personal security while travelling. Allowing as little as possible to be seen is the best way to keep on top of it.

 

[Class377/5]

The trouble is, if you want your fleet to resemble 1960s New York Subway trains, then put them into service with the results of the graffiti attack apparent to everyone, likea this mornings GN 387s, which I saw at Finsbury Park. Instant publicity and 'status' for the graffiti vandal and a guaranteed way of attracting 10 more similar or worse attacks.

The only solution is to keep them in the depot. It was at a pity that the industry lacked the guts to defend this approach robustly when Evening Standard recently ran at a series of negative articles about cancellations due to serious graffiti a month or two ago. Regular graffiti damages passengers' perceptions of their personal security while travelling. Allowing as little as possible to be seen is the best way to keep on top of it.

How do you keep trains in depot when the attacks are done elsewhere?

There is also the question of what's more important, the look of the train or providing a services to those paying for it? Either way it's a lose situation for the railway.

 

[sd0733]

Nothing holding up 106. It's been used to do various testing (like first unit to Peterborough) that mean it's not been there for commissioning runs. However today it entered service for the first time.

Just on 106 now on 1W68 so it will be spending the night in Bedford off this diagram. Compared to 104 and 105 which I was on earlier it seems roasting hot in all the coaches and the PIS/GPS is faulty as it still thinks the next stop is Preston park.

 

[ComUtoR]

Stabling a train in Bellingham sidings is basically a sure fire way to get a custom paint job.

Not so much in recent years in all honesty.

 

[notverydeep]

How do you keep trains in depot when the attacks are done elsewhere?

There is also the question of what's more important, the look of the train or providing a services to those paying for it? Either way it's a lose situation for the railway.

Sorry, I was using 'depot' to mean stabling locations in general. I recognise that where the train cannot be cleaned it will need to be moved, but ideally it should be seen as little as possible.

I work for a train operator that strictly withdraws trains from service and doesn't allow a train to enter service with significant or offensive graffiti and it does minimise down time for trains. GTR will have to attend to it at some point anyway, so best straight away.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry, I was using 'depot' to mean stabling locations in general. I recognise that where the train cannot be cleaned it will need to be moved, but ideally it should be seen as little as possible.

I work for a train operator that strictly withdraws trains from service and doesn't allow a train to enter service with significant or offensive graffiti and it does minimise down time for trains. GTR will have to attend to it at some point anyway, so best straight away.

I believe only Hornsey can clean them IIRC. So why not get the passenger run and get unit back to depot in one go?

Your also assuming the attack was discovered prior to driver arriving to check the stock.

 

[AM9]

Well, since many trains have LED indicators showing when a toilet is locked out of use or when it is occupied, one would assume the PIS would be linked in to such information? Perhaps the DfT decided to do further cost cutting.

You mentioned a 'sign' which to me doesn't sound like something connected into the train's system. So how could the system know about the sign unless somebody took time out to manually enter the toilet's status?

How much standing space is there in the isle between the blocks of seats exactly? Would you like to share a measurement so people can verify your claims.

It was an estimate from the many pictures of the interior. But rest assured, I will measure the distance at the next opportunity, calculate the impact and report it here for you.

I would stand but I fear I'll end up being near a petulant person such as yourself.

Well the smiley was wasted on you then.

 

[bramling]

Well there's plenty of standing room if sitting is not comfortable enough.

Just about sums up the attitude doesn't it?

Make the trains uncomfortable, and if you don't like it then stand.

The fact that passenger surveys top out with the most important thing being getting a seat seems to be lost on some people.

 

[asylumxl]

Just about sums up the attitude doesn't it?

Make the trains uncomfortable, and if you don't like it then stand.

The fact that passenger surveys top out with the most important thing being getting a seat seems to be lost on some people.

Don't worry, the DfT listened to our requests. The original interior specification looked something like this...

 

[bramling]

Don't worry, the DfT listened to our requests. The original interior specification looked something like this...

Yeah and there's certain people on here who I'm sure would try and justify that as some kind of improvement.

 

[jon0844]

Don't worry, the DfT listened to our requests. The original interior specification looked something like this...

That's what they'll look like after their first mid-life refresh. Or perhaps these are photos of the 717s?

 

[asylumxl]

That's what they'll look like after their first mid-life refresh. Or perhaps these are photos of the 717s?

Yeah and there's certain people on here who I'm sure would try and justify that as some kind of improvement.

It's believed the bureaucrats at the DfT drew inspiration from these.

 

[Class377/5]

Yeah and there's certain people on here who I'm sure would try and justify that as some kind of improvement.

Nope. That's a path we don't want to go down. Seats = good.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Not so much in recent years in all honesty.

In my experience it comes and goes ...but you can do things to prevent it. A particular issue is the dead time over Xmas / New Year when it really does pay to minimise unprotected outstabling and put in security and BTP patrols at the other stabling locations. Did this very succesfully on the NLR system back in the day.

Another little thing that really hacked off the vandals (apart from getting them arrested and charged) , was if a unit got badly hit , was to spoil the mural with a dash of white paint before cleaning - (so they cold not get a picture of out in service - thus destroying their kudos) - and of course their so called "artwork" ...

 

[jon0844]

That sounds like a good idea. Some paint (that can also be removed along with the graffiti below) that is instantly applied to hide the artwork.

No artwork or tags.. what's the point?

I mean, sure, they'll take photos of the train in a siding but certainly nobody will be that impressed if they can't show a photo or video of it on the move.

I do think etching started to become less common once TOCs applied film they could easily swap.

 

[bramling]

Nope. That's a path we don't want to go down. Seats = good.

How about finding a design of seat which people find comfortable then?

 

[vrbarreto]

It's believed the bureaucrats at the DfT drew inspiration from these.

Don't be silly.....

They drew inspiration from here: (Future Class 808, first class to the right)

Really beginning to dislike the class 700

Have been doing the commute from East Croydon to Luton Airport and the seats are really uncomfortable... Also the airline style seats mean your legs get wedged into the seat back of the seat in front of you.. Also for some strange reason it's really difficult to get your feet in a decent position.

Love the class 377(?)

 

[Class377/5]

How about finding a design of seat which people find comfortable then?

As you know, I find the current seats on the 700s very comfortable. Trying to please everyone is impossible. This forum has proven this.

Next week will see two more 700/0 diagrams introduced with Kent seeing its first services.

TB401
5W78 03+38 Three Bridge Depot to Three Bridges
1W78 03.46 Three Bridges to Bedford
1V83 06.14 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V12 08.08 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham
5K37 09+31 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O37 09.44 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham Junction
2O38 11.07 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V67 13.14 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V68 15.08 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham
5K93 16+29 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O93 16.44 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham
2O94 18.11 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V41 20.20 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
5O48 22+12 Sutton to Streatham via Mitcham
5O48 22+31 Streatham to Sutton via Mitcham
2O48 22.47 Sutton to St Bedford via Wimbledon
5G48 01+10 Bedford to Bedford CS

TB402
5W01 05+20 Down Yard to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 14.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.05 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W63 19.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W62 22+22 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

TB403
5G04 04+33 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W12 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 10.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.33 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+14 Brighton to Down Yard

TB404
5G85 00+28 Bedford CS to Bedford
2W85 00.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W88 03.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
1O09 05.48 Bedford to Sutton via Mitcham
1O10 07.40 Sutton to Bedford via Wimbledon
5G29 09+52 Bedford to Bedford via North End Siding
2W29 10.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W38 12.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
1H66 15.40 Bedford to Beckenham Junction
1G79 17.30 Beckenham Junction to Bedford
5G79 19+10 Bedford to Bedford CS via North End Siding

TB405
5G77 02+08 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W77 02.20 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W92 04.50 Three Bridge to Bedford
1E64 07.16 Bedford to Sevenoaks
2E75 09.42 Sevenoaks to Kentish Town
5J75 11+11 Kentish Town to Cricklewood Depot
5A33 11+42 Cricklewood Depot to West Hampstead
2E33 11.50 West Hampstead to Sevenoaks
2E51 13.30 Sevenoaks to West Hampstead
5J51 14+57 West Hampstead to Cricklewood Depot
5J47 15+13 Cricklewood Depot to West Hampstead
2E47 15.20 West Hampstead to Sevenoaks
1E98 17.00 Sevenoaks to Bedford
5G98 19+24 Bedford to Bedford CS

TB501
5Y91 02+14 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W91 02.40 Bedford to Brighton
1B00 05.47 Brighton to London Bridge
1B05 07.12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B10 08.27 Brighton to London Bridge
1B15 09.42 London Bridge to Brighton
1B22 11.02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B25 12.12 London Bridge to Brighton
5B25 13+29 Brighton to Down Yard
5B38 14+42 Down Yard to Brighton
1B38 15.02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B41 16.12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B48 17.32 Brighton to London Bridge
1B51 18.42 London Bridge to Brighton
5W51 20+06 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

TB502
5W93 05+10 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W94 05.20 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W13 07.34 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 10.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W41 13.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W92 15+41 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot
5W92 15+56 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
1W92 15.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W61 18.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W66 20.43 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y68 23+00 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB503
5Y11 06+32 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W11 06.58 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W22 09.11 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W29 11.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W40 14.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W57 17.20 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W62 19.43 Three Bridges to Bedford
5U62 22+00 Bedford to Cauldwell Depot

TB504
5W02 05+07 Brighton Down Yard to Brighton
1W02 05.30 Brighton to Bedford
2W21 08.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W30 10+41 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot
5W30 10+56 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W30 10.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W37 13.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+03 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB505
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford via Jowett Sidings
1W01 04.16 Bedford to Brighton
1W82 07.22 Brighton to Bedford
1W23 10.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W34 13.05 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 15.50 Bedford to Brighton
1W56 18.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y69 21+14 Bedford to Jowett Sidings
5Y69 21+27 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W69 21.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W69 00+25 Brighton to Down Yard

TB506
5W06 05+10 Three Bridges Depot to Brighton
1W06 06.06 Brighton to Bedford
2W23 08.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W32 11.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W39 14.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W80 17.01 Brighton to Bedford
5Y80 19+33 Bedford to Jowett

TB507
5Y93 07+04 Jowett to Bedford
1W93 07.30 Bedford to Brighton
1W22 10.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W39 12.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W48 15+09 Three Bridges to Three Bridges via Depot
2W48 15.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W59 18.00 Bedford to Gatwick
2W64 20.18 Gatwick to Bedford
2W79 22.40 Bedford to Three Bridges

TB508
5G85 05+46 Cauldwell Depot to Bedford
1W85 06.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W18 09.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W35 11.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W44 14.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W51 17.08 Bedford to Brighton
1W62 20.03 Brighton to Bedford
2W81 23.10 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W81 01+36 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot

TB509
5Y19 07+22 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W19 07.48 Bedford to Gatwick Airport
2W26 10.08 Gatwick Airport to Bedford
1W33 12.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W90 15.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W55 18.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W66 21.05 Brighton to Bedford
5Y66 23+50 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB510
5Y02 03+15 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W03 03.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W80 06.57 Brighton to Bedford
1W21 09.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W32 12.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W49 15.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
1W84 18.07 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W65 20.40 Bedford to Brighton
2W80 23.37 Brighton to Bedford
5Y80 02+44 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB511
5Y87 01+08 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W87 01.40 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W90 04.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W89 06.54 Bedford to Brighton
1W20 09.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y35 12+16 Bedford to Bedford via Jowett Sidings
1W35 13.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W94 16.02 Brighton to Bedford
1W57 18.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W68 21.33 Brighton to Bedford
5Y68 00+18 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

 

[ComUtoR]

Next week will see two more 700/0 diagrams introduced with Kent seeing its first services.

Let the fun begin